1 (edited by ramses 2019-05-16 16:53:02)

Topic: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

EDITED2 to make proposal more clear.

To make the good even better ... Would it be possible to create smth like virtual channels for loopback recording purposes?

Simply 2, 4, 8 or more channels inside of the recording interface without a plug to the "outside world" simply for loopback recording?!

This would be very useful because then nobody would need to "sacrifice" channels for loopback recording that could be better used otherwise .. for connections to other devices.

Surely interesting for users with interfaces that have not so many i/o ports or where all ports are already in use.

Or in special situations too have enough loopback channels to build workarounds for this, see this posting:  https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopi … 74#p139874

If somebody should not have used loopback recording yet, here an example for what I use it and later a more common example:

I am using loopback recording regulary  together with DURec, to record also my phones submix where I have my e-guitar already "pre EQ'd" with TM FX's EQ so that the e-guitar fits better into the submix and doesn't interfere so much with bass and drums on lower frequencies.
This track I can use then well ie for rehearsals of such overdub recordings or to send a quick snapshot of an idea to somebody so that it sounds a little nicer than the raw recorded tracks.

There are many other use cases for loopback recording .. the simplest to record ie stuff from Internet Browser/ Youtube, without having to use external patch cables.

I am personally not limited because with the UFX+ I have a lot of free MADI channel's free.

But I regard it as nice idea for all users because:
a) this could help others with fewer or zero unused ports
b) would make loopback recording more independed from your current and later cabling demands / routing in TM FX.

To b): If you would use now ie some channels from ADAT2 but need ADAT2 later to connect another preamp then you would need to look for other channels for loopback recording and redo the setup of loopback recording (IF you have free channels left).

With a couple of virtual loopback channels nothing would need to be changed in terms of  cabling and routing which makes everything more comfortably for users.

Many thanks.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

Seems nobody sees a merit in it.

The advantages should be clear, you would not need to sacrifice "precious" HW ouputs for loopback recording
that you might need better for connecting devices.

Nobody ?

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

I do see the merits, even when I haven't run out of channels yet big_smile

But I haven't got a clue about the amount of work involved and if it's even possible. So it would be nice to hear from RME if they think it's possible.

It's definitely a good idea!

MB Pro - FireFace 400 & DigiFace USB
ADAT gear: Korg, Behri, Fostex, Alesis
Appsys.ch ADAT over UTP

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

+1000

Yes, I would love this too.

Totalmix loopback is better and more reliable than alternatives (loopback, soundflower etc).

Does the loopback actually go vi the hardware or is it just a software routing?

Having extra virtual channels would be wonderful.

At the moment on my laptop I'm using a Babyface and Digiface and the Digiface is just acting as a loopback dongle because I need all the channels on the babyface for IO.

I'm routing 4 stereo channels of traktor -> ableton and I need the babyface ADAT to connect to my modular ES3/6.

Have 8 extra virtual channels on the totalmix means I could just use the babyface.

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

seems like others looking for the same .. https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=22833

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

+1

Thanks
Johan

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

tommytastic wrote:

seems like others looking for the same .. https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=22833

No I am not requesting a virtual audio device.

I only suggest to change the routing matrix in a way, that for loopback recording you have a certain
amount of additional virtual inputs and outputs not having to spoil real HW inputs and outputs for
the sole purpose of loopback recording.

Would be especially beneficial if you have are a recording device with few channels.
Then you can use the HW I/O ports for real connections to other HW devices.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

+1

Thx
z

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

i agree 100% especially working on macOS and having to use loopback to access DIGIcheck.

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

I agree, I am using a Digiface USB mostly for having 4 loopback channels and not running out of ADAT Channels.
If there would be 'extra' channels for loopback on the UCX for example, this would simplify the setup.

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

I greatly concur! Hear hear!

12 (edited by ramses 2021-02-26 08:47:50)

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

Perhaps a few more thoughts on this.

1. an implementation would have to be fully compatible to the current situation, so that everything can continue as before.
Especially because of the peculiarities/limitations of some applications (zoom) to use only the first two audio channels as input.

2. that's why these virtual loopback channels would have to come at the very end in the order of the ports in my opinion.
Unless the order of the channels would (can) be made configurable in the driver, which is already on the wish list of Protools users, because Protools has a 30ch limit on the part of Avvid (for non Protools HD solutions).

Question is, whether this would be possible, whether the FPGA would offer enough space for (ideally) all products to make something like this possible.

@RME: would this proposal qualify to come onto a wishlost or is this fully out of sight ?

As you see there is some interest and other customers might also be happy as there are valid use cases for it, esp. for Apple customers when using Digicheck as has been mentioned e.g. in post #9.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

I'd love to hear an update on this as well! There's some stuff we could do now with OBS new Monitor plugin, but its clunky

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

Would solve this too:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 69#p176469

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

Also this: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 65#p177865

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

Just weighing in here, since I didn't see ramses's thread.  I agree, this would be extremely useful, especially when it comes to those of us who are doing a lot of live processing, broadcast, complex routing.

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

Yes I agree too.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

Bump!

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

Bump bump!

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

Was just thinking how this could be implemented.

Requirements
1. current loopback functionality needs to stay for backward compatibility
2. additional channels for loopback (lo1 - lo8) need to go to the end
3. virtual loopback channels have the same features as real HW channels (FX, mono/stereo button, ..) they only have not I/O port (input/output) to the outside
4. amount of loopback channels: ideally something in the range up to e.g. 16 ?!
   Might be recording interface dependend, how many resources are available for this.

Two Levels of implementation:

A) Step 1: "easy basic implementation", same operation, no change in the TM FX GUI
- you route audio to the virtual HW output lo_x
- there you can click loopback and can record audio on corresponding virtual HW input lo_x

B) Step 2:  you want to use loopback on a real HW output, but not "overlay" audio of the corresponding HW input
- implement loopback as pulldown menue
- if you click the loopback button short, you get loopback on the corresponding HW input (old style)
- if you click the loopback button a little longer you get a pulldown menue where you can select
   - corresponding HW input
   - list of available loopback channels
- if loopback is active the "loopback button" shows the loopback channel name instead of only "loopback"

While doing this it would be very useful to have an option to choose, whether loopback works pre- or post-fader.
Also two options here
- as global setting with default to pre-fader so that it is possible to mute a HW output without impacting loopback operation
- on a per channel basis (maybe implemented to be selectable in the above proposed pull-down menue
  This should be signalled somehow, maybe as little glowing bar over/below loopback button

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Virtual channels for loopback possible?

Yes, please!

I currently have enough real channels, but it would still be worth it. Let's hope MC surprises us soon ;-)

MB Pro - FireFace 400 & DigiFace USB
ADAT gear: Korg, Behri, Fostex, Alesis
Appsys.ch ADAT over UTP