1 (edited by mavck 2022-07-27 01:16:22)

Topic: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

Hi.
Since we have a limitation of 2 ADAT channels in the ADI 2 Pro FS, yet I am looking to expand it,
I need to use both ADAT and AES or S/PDIF (I don't need everything working at the same time).

I have found a good interface/ADAT expander from Arutria that I am interested in, but it only has ADAT outputs.
I was wondering if adding a Toslink to Coax adapter would work and if it would degrade the signal or clock just by being there?
Or if there is an efficient way to convert an ADAT output to S/PDIF before going to the ADI (because I know the ADI could probably do this, but that would mean having 2 tongue).

2 (edited by KaiS 2022-07-27 01:48:29)

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

If I get you right, you want to:

• Connect multiple optical and/or coax sources to ADI-2 Pro‘s input and
• select from them,
• to listen to or record one of them at a time?!


Going through ADAT would be an unnecessary complication to achieve this.

A Toslink switch would be the way to expand ADI-2’s input capability.


This 4 to 1 switch is proven to work up to 192 kHz and has a remote too, leaving the Coax and AES inputs for 2 other sources, making a total count of 6 (+USB +Analog):

https://smile.amazon.de/Oehlbach-XXL-HD … mp;sr=8-20
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71BZPW--OkL._AC_SX679_.jpg
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71IZRYnOA3L._AC_SX679_.jpg


Don’t worry about the clock, ADI-2 Pro FS has an extremly efficient de-jitter built in.
It’s sound quality is by no means depending or influenced by the clock’s signal quality.

According ADAT optical to Coax conversion:
This won’t work, Coax input does not accept ADAT format.

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

KaiS wrote:

If I get you right, you want to:

• Connect multiple optical and/or coax sources to ADI-2 Pro‘s input and
• select from them,
• to listen to or record one of them at a time?!


Going through ADAT would be an unnecessary complication to achieve this.

A Toslink switch would be the way to expand ADI-2’s input capability.


This 4 to 1 switch is proven to work up to 192 kHz and has a remote too, leaving the Coax and AES inputs for 2 other sources, making a total count of 6 (+USB +Analog):

https://smile.amazon.de/Oehlbach-XXL-HD … mp;sr=8-20
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71BZPW--OkL._AC_SX679_.jpg
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71IZRYnOA3L._AC_SX679_.jpg


Don’t worry about the clock, ADI-2 Pro FS has an extremly efficient de-jitter built in.
It’s sound quality is by no means depending or influenced by the clock’s signal quality.

According ADAT optical to Coax conversion:
This won’t work, Coax input does not accept ADAT format.


Hi, KaiS.
Thank you for always providing great, specific answers.
You always remind me I suck at explaining my questions.

• Connect multiple optical and/or coax sources to ADI-2 Pro‘s input and
• select from them,
• to listen to or record one of them at a time?!

You are correct there!
I just want to be able to have everything plugged in at once, without having to meddle with cable swapping.
Just keep connected, select an input here an output there and profit.

My setup is as follows:
ADI-2 Pro FS > Analog Inputs always busy with my bass/guitar multi effects.
I had an Antelope interface sending 4 preamps to the ADI, 2 via ADAT, 2 via S/PDIF (sent to the ADI via a S/PDIF to AES Lynx cable, so as far as the ADI knows it is AES). But this interface broke, and I will have to replace it.
Unfortunately, there are not many interfaces with these qualities (4 preamps or more, S/PDIF(or AES) and ADAT).
The ADI just sounds and records too well to be replaced, so I want it to be the brain of my operations regardless.


"Going through ADAT would be an unnecessary complication to achieve this."
I agree. But it seems to be the only way to be able to use AES as a separate input in the ADI, making me able to have 6 separate sources available at all times (2 analog, 2 ADAT, 2 AES).

"Don’t worry about the clock, ADI-2 Pro FS has an extremly efficient de-jitter built in."
This is very comforting!

"According ADAT optical to Coax conversion:
This won’t work, Coax input does not accept ADAT format."

OK, I understand it is impossible to send ADAT from Interface A and make it enter as S/PDIF or AES in the ADI sad.
So because the Arturia I was thinking about only has ADAT, that means I also cannot use the adapter you have recommended, because it does not take ADAT, correct?

The reason I am working with ADAT is that I am working with recording gear. I personally have no preference (in digital formats), and recording audio interfaces are either ADAT via Toslink cable or S/PDIF via Coax or both.
If I use the S/PDIF output of another interface as AES in the Adi, I am only left with 2 ADAT inputs that I want to use, which generates this problem.

If I open my DAW, in my ideal setup, I would have all 6 ADI inputs available at all times, and I can just record each instrument/input as needed, without having to plug/unplug anything, and just choosing the right channel for recording.
I actually had achieved this with the Antelope, but as stated above, it broke on me.
If the ADI didn't sound as well as it does, I would just sell it and use another interface altogether, since it is really easy to get interfaces with 8 inputs and just use them and be happy heh.

In theory, I could use the ADI as a monitoring solution, but I also want to use its analog inputs and its audio processing completely directly from and to the DAW.

Thank you for all the time and effort put into providing possible solutions. It is always greatly appreciated.

4 (edited by KaiS 2022-07-27 08:22:07)

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

As far as I see you don‘t need all this interfaces, preamps and the like with complicated connection schemes.

ADI-2 Pro is all you need.

All your sources can be connected through an already proposed analog (and/or digital switch-box), directly to ADI-2 Pro.
This would even further improve signal quality.

Am I right, all your sources are basically analog, digital came into play only because of the additional interfaces?

I don‘t even see a microphone mentioned, so not even a mic pre necessary.
If yes, a single or stereo preamp does the job.


In your DAW you can built a predefined template project, that takes into account all possible sources, one or more tracks for each instrument.
You can already have predefined mix levels for every source.
Then you just have to push the record button for e.g. guitar1, select it on the analog switch box and go.


For effective help, before going any further, please list ALL your sources and their connection, in the style of:

1. Electric guitar, MultiEffect Board xyz, stereo Jack analog out.

2. Bass guitar, Little Amp xyz, optical out.

3. Yamaha xyz keyboard, stereo XLR analog out.

4. etc. ...

5 (edited by ramses 2022-08-01 12:40:21)

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

@mavck:
I am also interested in hearing from you what devices you plan to connect in your setup and what you want to do with the devices (your main applications for them).
Thereafter, we know how many analog and digital ports you need at least. However, I would always take a certain port reserve into account.

One thing, in advance, while you create such a list. In most cases, it makes most sense to base the setup on a so-called “recording interface” with TotalMix FX (digital mixer) to have the necessary flexibility (routing, loopback) and a certain degree of ease of use.
The ADI-2 Pro is a great converter with some useful predefined routing possibilities, but it just doesn't compare to the possibilities of a recording interface with TotalMix FX. So, it might make sense as well for you to combine those products: recording interface and converter with advanced features.

See my blog for an example, how to integrate the ADI-2 Pro via ADAT or AES into a setup based on an RME recording interface: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

You can also nicely integrate the Oehlbach Optosel Mk II, as KaiS mentioned, to connect multiple digital sources to the ADI-2 Pro. It has a nicely working remote and has a good design, other comparable devices look somehow cheap.

Example:

This does not have to be the final solution, but only to give you an idea how I would build such a solution.
The recording interface which I propose here as an example is the UCX II because it has a variety of different port types supporting many applications and got many nice things from the product line of flagship interface.

PC---ARC USB (optional)
|
UCX II+--ADAT IN-----<---------------------------------------+
        \                                                                            \
         +--ADAT OUT---->----------+Optosel 4:1 Mk II-----+ADI-2 Pro FS R BE+-----Act. Monitors
                                       Blu-ray+                                                                    +-----Headphones
                                              TV+
                                     Reserve+
                                     [up to 4 optical sources (ADAT/SPDIF) selectable via remote]

TOSLINK cables are limited to ~10 m length according to standards, but I can confirm that in my setup I can even use 15 m TOSLINK cables between RME recording interface and an Optosel 4:1 plus 0,5-1 m additional between Optosel 4:1 and ADI-2 Pro. I am using Mutec cables: https://www.thomann.de/de/mutec_optisches_kabel_3m.htm.

Tip: if you buy the Optosel 4:1 then ensure to get the Mk II version. The older version was unable to support 192 kHz, it had the wrong components inside against the claim from the vendor and what you could see printed on the package:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … lerangabe/

If you should need more ports, consider UFX II or UFX+.
If you want to compare different RME USB/FW/TB recording interfaces, then you can use my Excel here in the blog:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … B-MADIfac/
Direct Link to Excel: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … 4-08-xlsx/

Other examples, e.g., this thread: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 94#p189994

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

6 (edited by mavck 2022-07-28 04:20:21)

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

Hi, KaiS and ramses.
Thank you very much.

@ramses That was a very nice read there! I think I had read it before buying the ADI wink
As for my device: Yes, I realize the ADI is perhaps not the best single device for my needs and that I maybe should get a UCXII instead, as it has most of the goodies the ADI offers and more than enough I/O for me, but it is absolutely not available where I live at the moment, and even if it was now, it would be worth the same money my ADI was when I bought it.
Another option for me was the Digiface+ADAT expander, but the Digiface is also sold out and nowhere to be found now.
I would even be happy with ADI+Babyface Pro FS, but I am not willing to buy ESS and I am also having an issue where its price has recently doubled and in some stores even tripled where I live sad

@KaiS and ramses
My devices are as follows:
2 Mics - 1 Dynamic, 1 Condenser. I have no preamps at the moment (due to broken interface which I bought for the preamps).
3 Basses (Passive Yamaha, Active Ibanez, Passive Bacchus).
1 Electric Guitar
1 Multi FX for both guitar and bass (HX Stomp), which I only use for recording rock, because it is too noisy for other styles of music (ie not great for clean sounds unless it is a live performance).

I use my devices for composing, recording and releasing music, along with other virtual synths that I control with a MIDI controller.

Ideally, I wanted to have some of these always connected:
-Dynamic mic
-Multi FX (stereo) - Even if no instruments are connected to it. It does have a send and return, which helps reducing necessary I/O needed, but changes the sound of the recording, not always acceptable. This only has TRS outputs, I use a TRS to XLR cable to connect to my ADI.
-Yamaha bass
-My electric guitar
-And I would like to have an open input for other instruments I occasionally connect.

So those are the 6 inputs I would like to have.
I could do with 4 at a minimum (most people in my case would be happy with 1 or 2, I know).

Reason to have them always connected:
Always the same settings - easy of access and improved productivity.


I hope I explained it well enough and I appreciate all time and effort put into helping me smile.

PS: Just to clarify.
My setup so far was.

Antelope Interface with 4 preamps
Preamp 1 and 2 sent to ADI via ADAT
Preamp 3 and 4 sent to ADI via AES.

Pre 1 - Bass
Pre 2 - Guitar
Pre 3 - Mic
Pre 4 - Open for other instruments or mic as needed

HX Stomp sent in stereo to ADI's Analog Input

Now I have no preamp other than the HX Stomp for my instruments (and 0 preamps for my mics).

7 (edited by KaiS 2022-07-28 11:07:44)

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

Let‘s face a few things:

1. You‘ve settled to ADI-2 Pro because of it‘s sound.
This is fully valid, indeed it‘s the best spec‘ed AD-DA within RME‘s offerings.


2. You have a misconception about preamps:
High gain (mic, instrument) pre‘s do sound different.
For the same $$$ you can buy one good or 4 lesser.

3. Next misconception:
Everything needs to be plugged in and be prepared at the same time.
This is not possible with ADI-2 Pro, there is ONE single stereo AD-converter, and this is the ONLY ONE you should use for highest quality.
No external pre with dubious AD and digital feed or the like, no!



It boils down to what I already proposed:

• All your sources are analog.

• The mic‘s need one single proper mic preamp.

• The guitars and basses need one single active DI-box,
Klark LBB100 Aktive DI-Box is the best one ever built, only available used (Ebay etc.).
It will be plugged in your future high-class Mic-Pre.
Or, your future Preamp has a dedicated high impedance instrument input, then skip the Di-Box.

• Gt-Stomp and MultiFX don’t need a preamp, they go directly to ADI-2 Pro‘s analog in (via the Switch-Box, see below).

• Mic Pre (with optional Di-Box), Gt-Stomp-MultiFX, and the other Multi-FX are connected to a Switch-Box, which runs to ADI-2 Pro‘s analog in.


Now all you have to do to record:
Plug the instrument or the mic, set the Mic-Pre‘s Gain (note down your typical setting), and activate the DAW track.
Thanx of the Switch-Box this takes 15 seconds.


Suggested Mic/Instrument Preamp:

MindPrint Envoice or Envoice 2.

Even better: MindPrint DTC (if you can find one), 2 Channel/Stereo, and makes the switchbox obsolete, as it has 8 dedicated switchable inputs:
2 x Mic
2 x Instrument (Bass, Gt)
2 x Line (GtStomp)
2 x Insert, can be used as fixed level Line input (MultiFX)

8 (edited by ramses 2022-08-01 12:33:17)

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

If you want to use up to 3 instr ports, then I would consider getting the UFX II or UFX+. This saves you the efforts of having to buy external HW for additional Instr ports and which would steal analog ports for that purpose and leaves more analog ports to connect external HW.

I understand your demand to preconfigure certain things. In my setup with the UFX+ I am using Mic9+10 as instruments ports and Mic 11/12 for microphones:
— Mic9 prepared for Humbucker Guitars with Gibson Classic '57 with gain set to 25 (*)
— Mic10 prepared for single coil guitars with gain set to 28 to compensate the lower output of guitars. (*)

You may ask why I would even propose an UFX+:
- it gives you more options to connect to a PC or Apple device (USB3, Thunderbolt, USB2) if one connection types should have issues, you still have a plan B
- thunderbolt driver supports the pitch function in case you need that
- by MADI you have some advantages over ADAT, e.g., higher channel count which is useful when working with higher sample rates, more spare channels to connect additional AD/DA converter or to be used for loopback purposes.
- MADI offers you much longer cable lengths so that you can place preamps directly in different recording rooms to keep the analog cables short, which saves cost and avoids too long/many analog cables

EDIT: TYPO … UFX II, not UCX II

PC---ARC USB (optional)
|
| (USB)
|   +---------- Mic/Instr/Line 9         - mic
|   +---------- Mic/Instr/Line 10-12 - instruments (using Autoset (**) to get proper gain more quickly) (*)
|   +----------- Analog 1-8 IN/OUT  - up to 4 external stereo FX (EQ, Compressor, Reverb/Delay, Preamp)
|   +----------- Phones 9/10, 11/12 - two additional very nice phones outputs for additional musicians, individual submixes
|   |
UFX II+--ADAT IN-----<---------------------------------------+
        \                                                                            \
         +--ADAT OUT---->----------+Optosel 4:1 Mk II-----+ADI-2 Pro FS R BE+-----Act. Monitors
                                       Blu-ray+                                                                    +-----Headphones (2x)
                                              TV+
                                     Reserve+
                                     [up to 4 optical sources (ADAT/SPDIF) selectable via remote]

(*) Tip: mute unused inputs to get no additional noise from Mic/Inst inputs if nothing is connected to the input.
(**) tip: I turn the gain up and enable Autoset, then strum into the guitar as loud as I can, then Autoset automatically dials in the proper gain settings and leaves a little headroom. Thereafter, I disable Autoset to keep the gain exactly at the same level. These gain settings are being stored with all other settings/routing in a snapshot. So at any time the Mic and Instr inputs (and all other ports) have the proper setup ready for use.

I think this is one of the most important aspects of TM FX, the many possibilities to save all settings so that you are quickly ready to go and that it is “relatively” easy and logic to operate.
Then you can save your setup in “workspaces” to PC, which covers all settings and window positions.
It's also possible to save the whole workspace to 30 predefined slots in TM FX, so-called Workspace Quick Select slots.
The nice thing is that you can restore the first 10 quick select slots by using function keys F1-F0.
So, whatever you experiment in TM FX … Press e.g. ALT-F1 to restore the workspace in quick select slot 1, and then you are at the old saves/defined state.
Every TM FX workspace has 8 snapshots where you can store channel settings / routing.
With these up to 30 workspace quick select slots, you have 30×8=240 different Snapshots/Routings/Setups available at your fingertips.

This all is much nicer to operate and definitively more powerful in contrast to have only the ADI-2 Pro without TM FX.

Recording Interface + ADI-2 DAC/Pro as an extension for the monitoring is the really nicest / most useful combination.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

9 (edited by mavck 2022-07-29 07:47:17)

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

KaiS wrote:

Let‘s face a few things:

1. You‘ve settled to ADI-2 Pro because of it‘s sound.
This is fully valid, indeed it‘s the best spec‘ed AD-DA within RME‘s offerings.


2. You have a misconception about preamps:
High gain (mic, instrument) pre‘s do sound different.
For the same $$$ you can buy one good or 4 lesser.

3. Next misconception:
Everything needs to be plugged in and be prepared at the same time.
This is not possible with ADI-2 Pro, there is ONE single stereo AD-converter, and this is the ONLY ONE you should use for highest quality.
No external pre with dubious AD and digital feed or the like, no!
----
Even better: MindPrint DTC (if you can find one), 2 Channel/Stereo, and makes the switchbox obsolete, as it has 8 dedicated switchable inputs:
2 x Mic
2 x Instrument (Bass, Gt)
2 x Line (GtStomp)
2 x Insert, can be used as fixed level Line input (MultiFX)

1.- Thanks. Yes, I doubt I'll find a better unit, specially for the price.
2.- This is not a misconception. It is something I am fully aware of.
Going to your future suggestions (MindPrint), this is a brand I was not aware of and I am investigating right now.
The only reason I did not go the stand alone preamp route is my everything all at once requirement. If budget allowed it, I would have a preamp per each instrument I own, or at least 1 preamp per 2 instrument since stereo preamps are rather common.
3.- This is also not a misconception. It is just a preference. I have worked for a long time with less inputs, and while some people can cope with it, it is not the best move in terms of productivity (and comfort). Now, I do not expect most people to agree with this requirement, I know it is almost like a spoiled brat's requirement, but it is what I am looking for.


Going to your suggestion, the MindPrint DTC looks effing majestic.
I was not aware of it, but it does indeed look like a one unit solution to 90% of my requirements and problems and will more than happily be on the look for it!
I was originally looking for dedicated preamps, but I did not find anything satisfactory at the time and bought a "sub" interface to fill that role.

Thank you very much for opening to a whole new world of GAS tongue

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

ramses wrote:

If want to use up to 3 instr ports, then I would consider getting the UFX II or UFX+. This saves you the efforts having to buy external HW for additional Instr ports and which would steal analog ports for that purpose and leaves more analog ports to connect external HW.

I understand your demand to preconfigure certain things. In my setup with the UFX+ I am using Mic9+10 as instruments ports and Mic 11/12 for microphones:
- Mic9 prepared for Humbucker Guitars with Gibson Classic '57 with gain set to 25 (*)
- Mic10 prepared for single coil guitars with gain set to 28 to compensate the lower output of guitars (*)

You may ask why I would even propose an UFX+:
- it gives you more options to connect to a PC or Apple device (USB3, Thunderbolt, USB2) if one connection types should have issues, you still have a plan B
- thunderbolt driver supports the pitch function in case you need that
- by MADI you have some advantages over ADAT, e.g. higher channel count which is useful when working with higher sample rates, more spare channels to connect additional AD/DA converter or to be used for loopback purposes.
- MADI offers you much longer cable lengths so that you can place preamps directly in different recording rooms to keep the analog cables short which saves cost and avoids too long/many analog cables

PC---ARC USB (optional)
|
| (USB)
|   +---------- Mic/Instr/Line 9         - mic
|   +---------- Mic/Instr/Line 10-12 - instruments (using Autoset (**) to get proper gain more quickly) (*)
|   +----------- Analog 1-8 IN/OUT  - up to 4 external stereo FX (EQ, Compressor, Reverb/Delay, Preamp)
|   +----------- Phones 9/10, 11/12 - two additional very nice phones outputs for additional musicians, individual submixes
|   |
UCXII+--ADAT IN-----<---------------------------------------+
        \                                                                            \
         +--ADAT OUT---->----------+Optosel 4:1 Mk II-----+ADI-2 Pro FS R BE+-----Act. Monitors
                                       BluRay+                                                                    +-----Headphones (2x)
                                              TV+
                                     Reserve+
                                     [up to 4 optical sources (ADAT/SPDIF) selectable via remote]

(*) tip: mute unused inputs to get no additional noise from Mic/Inst inputs if nothing is connected to the input.
(**) tip: I turn the gain up and enable Autoset, then strumm into the guitar as loud as I can, then Autoset automatically dials in the proper gain settings and leaves a little headroom. After that I disable Autoset to keep the gain exactly at the same level. These gain settings are being stored with all other settings/routing in a snapshot. So at any time the Mic and Instr inputs (and all other ports) have the proper setup ready for use.

I think this is one of the most important aspects of TM FX, the many possibilities to save all settings so that you are very quickly ready to go and that it is "relatively" easy and logic to operate.
Then you can save your setup in "workspaces" to PC, which covers all settings and window positions.
It's also possible to save the whole workspace to 30 predefined slots in TM FX, so called Workspace Quick Select slots.
The nice thing is that you can restore the first 10 quick select slots by using function keys F1-F0.
So whatever you experiment in TM FX .. press e.g. ALT-F1 to restore the workspace in quick select slot 1 and then you are at the old saves/defined state.
Every TM FX workspace has 8 snapshots where you can store channel settings / routing.
So with these up to 30 workspace quick select slots you have 30 * 8 = 240 different Snapshots/Routings/Setups available at your fingertips.

This all is much nicer to operate and definitively more powerful in contrast to have only the ADI-2 Pro without TM FX.

Recording Interface + ADI-2 DAC/Pro as an externsion for the monitoring is the really nicest / most useful combination.

The UFX+ definitely seems like a winner in this situation. I had not even considered getting such a big unit, but now that you mention it, it would definitely cover for everything and leave space for future gear that I plan to acquire.
It is good to see you understand why I want separate, pre-setup inputs for different types of things.

Now, at the moment I cannot even find a UFX+ nor buy for budget, but I think I may as well just go and get a UCX II if I ever find it again (completely sold out ever since it came out where I live for the time being, and no one selling used).


I do have one question: If you have a unit so good like the UFX+ or UCX II, why even bother with the ADI for monitoring? I mean, I understand it sounds the best and converts the best, but how much better is it for you and why go though it for monitoring, other than the great comfort it offers (sound quality aside)?

Thanks!

PS:
ARC USB - I would definitely have this if I had a rack mounted interface. Although, I wish the lights were Blue, to match the RME look.

11 (edited by ramses 2022-08-01 12:26:41)

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

If I see what you have in mind, the UCX II is too small, better buy a UFX II instead.
This is the same unit as UFX+, only without Thunderbolt/USB3 and MADI.
Then you have enough mic/instrument inputs, analog I/O and twice ADAT and AES.
The ADI-2 Pro could be connected via AES, leaving two ADAT ports free for further expansion.
Then you could even connect an 8-port mic preamp or double-speed AD/DA converter.

But then no more expansions are possible. If you spend already so much money for the basement of your solution, then I would still vote for getting an UFX+. You can expand it much better, and it has the flexibility in different connection types towards the computer.

Regarding ADI-2 Pro. It's not just the quality of the converter, but the overall design and features that make this unit unique:
- Four reference levels and Auto Ref Level to maximize SNR/dynamics over a wider volume range.
- auto ref level takes into account your current EQ and Dynamic Loudness settings to automatically select the optimal reference level
- Dynamic Loudness I use every day when listening to music so that even at low volume the sound doesn't flatten out
- Very useful remote, using it every day when listening to music or watching TV over my high-end HiFi
- Slightly better audio performance compared to Accuphase's own DAC module
- The “Bittest” to ensure / check a lossless audio transfer from the music player to the DAC chip
- quick B/T adjustment when listening to music, but also PEQ for more thorough changes or headphone optimizations
- possibility to select the D/A filter to optimize it for the specific application, either for minimum latency or best resolution
- built-in sample rate converter, useful for connecting digital devices with different or fixed sample rate
- sophisticated component selection to avoid unnecessarily increasing the price of the product
- the confidence
  - that RME has the knowledge to deliver a high-quality product with excellent signal routing on the board, and
  - to make the best use of the quality and features of the DAC chips
  - to get a high-quality product with unique, outstanding features at a still fair/affordable price

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

12 (edited by ramses 2022-08-01 12:23:43)

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

BTW, there was a typo in my drawing above, not UCX II, UFX II or UFX+.


PC---ARC USB (optional)
|
| (USB)
|   +---------- Mic/Instr/Line 9         - mic
|   +---------- Mic/Instr/Line 10-12 - instruments (using Autoset (**) to get proper gain more quickly) (*)
|   +----------- Analog 1-8 IN/OUT  - up to 4 external stereo FX (EQ, Compressor, Reverb/Delay, Preamp)
|   +----------- Phones 9/10, 11/12 - two additional very nice phones outputs for additional musicians, individual submixes
|   |
UFX II+--ADAT IN-----<---------------------------------------+
        \                                                                            \
         +--ADAT OUT---->----------+Optosel 4:1 Mk II-----+ADI-2 Pro FS R BE+-----Act. Monitors
                                       Blu-ray+                                                                    +-----Headphones (2x)
                                              TV+
                                     Reserve+
                                     [up to 4 optical sources (ADAT/SPDIF) selectable via remote]

Alternatively with UFX+ with USB3/TB and MADI

PC---ARC USB (optional)
|
| (USB3, TB or USB2 without MADI)
|
|   +---------- Mic/Instr/Line 9         - mic
|   +---------- Mic/Instr/Line 10-12 - instruments (using Autoset (**) to get proper gain more quickly) (*)
|   +----------- Analog 1-8 IN/OUT  - up to 4 external stereo FX (EQ, Compressor, Reverb/Delay, Preamp)
|   +----------- Phones 9/10, 11/12 - two additional very nice phones outputs for additional musicians, individual submixes
|   |
UFX+ +--ADAT IN-----<---------------------------------------+
|  |     \                                                                            \
|  |      +--ADAT OUT---->----------+Optosel 4:1 Mk II-----+ADI-2 Pro FS R BE+-----Act. Monitors
|  |                                   Blu-ray+                                                                    +-----Headphones (2x)
|  |                                          TV+
|  |                                 Reserve+
|  |                                 [up to 4 optical sources (ADAT/SPDIF) selectable via remote]
|  + Mic Preamp
|  |
|  + AD/DA converter
|  |
+-+
(MADI)

Another advantage when investing into UFX II / + with a higher count of analog ports:
the number of analog channels on the device stays constant, no matter what sample rate you use in your projects.
ADAT has the highest channel degradation along with higher sample rates (compared to MADI):

MADI: 64ch @single speed  (44.1/48 kHz), 32ch @double speed (88.2/96 kHz), 16ch @quad speed (176,4/192 kHz)
ADAT:   8ch @single speed  (44.1/48 kHz),   4ch @double speed (88.2/96 kHz),   2ch @quad speed (176,4/192 kHz)

Therefore, I would propose to consider either UFX II or better UFX+.
Especially the UFX+ gives you additional advantages, more flexibility and will stay in your setup for a very long time (-> return / sustainability of invest).

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

Thanks for all the tips and sharing your ADI usage.
I had a good look at the UFXII.
It does look like a one stop shop, and it is not much more expensive than the ADI itself.
And it even offers MIDI.

I will definitely think about it, but ultimately I will get what I can find (the MindPrint looks great, the UFXII looks perfect, and the UCXII looks like a good middle ground).

Thank you both, I think I have a clear path for my setup ahead now, either with stand alone preamps or interfaces (or both, which is the ideal situation, as I plan to expand to API 500 in the future as well).

14 (edited by ramses 2022-08-01 12:21:12)

Re: Toslink to Coax adapter = Clock degradation?

mavck wrote:

Thanks for all the tips and sharing your ADI usage.
I had a good look at the UFX II.
It does look like a one-stop shop, and it is not much more expensive than the ADI itself.
And it even offers MIDI.

I will definitely think about it, but ultimately, I will get what I can find (the MindPrint looks great, the UFX II looks perfect, and the UCX II looks like a good middle ground).

Thank you both, I think I have a clear path for my setup ahead now, either with stand alone preamps or interfaces (or both, which is the ideal situation, as I plan to expand to API 500 in the future as well).

If you want to expand with an API500, one more tip, I know of a unit that can be connected by ADAT.
Then it would be good to have 1-2 ADAT ports free for that purpose.
Then better get the UFX+, then you can add some more I/O through MADI and can connect API through ADAT.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro