1 (edited by Max 2022-07-07 02:58:39)

Topic: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

For users who operate the 12Mic or AVB Tool from a distance (stage box etc.) with MADI connections, the lack of a MIDI Remote control software meant that they had to install a separate LAN cable or WiFi connection just for remote control - and, in most cases, just to set or adjust the gains once during sound check. For this reason, we have developed a separate app, "RME MIDI Remote AVB", which offers basic remote control (analog I/O controls such as gain/volume and phantom power, preset switching etc.).

Usage:
1) Install on a computer that has a MIDI over MADI interface.

2) Configure 12Mic/AVB Tool on device:
- press encoder for menu
- press encoder again for STATE
- rotate to REMOTE and confirm with encoder
- press MIDI softkey
- select input and output corresponding to the MADI format, ie. optical or coaxial
- set MIDI ID

3) In the MIDI Remote AVB application, press "Conf", select MIDI over MADI input and output, confirm each with "Apply". Return to main screen and add device. On the left side, choose the corresponding MIDI ID.

Notes:

- It is not possible to synchronize the entire device state over MIDI, so features such as routing will have to be configured on the device or over the webUI/API/AVDECC. However, since preset control is implemented, users can create complex configurations and toggle between them using presets. Keep in mind that loading presets might change settings that are not visible over MIDI Remote AVB, such as clock source, routings, etc. .

- "Snapshots", on the other hand, are locally stored on the computer and only include the analog channel controls. This is useful, for example, to store and recall gains for different sessions.

- Hold the [Shift] key while dragging an encoder for fine adjustments.

- Press [g] activate gain group mode.

!!! Requires Firmware 1.5.0 or later !!!

Download MIDI Remote AVB:

Windows installer
macOS application

We are looking forward to your feedback.

v1.0.0 Release

---
v1.0.0 beta 14:
- improved local preset renaming
- several minor changes

---
v1.0.0 beta 13:
- rename presets locally
- persist size of channel strips per snapshot
- default channel names for XTC
- fix: cannot select sampling rate

---
v1.0.0 beta 12:
- adds controls for OctaMic XTC
- adds 'About' page with credentials

---
v1.0.0 beta 11:
- adds level meters
- adds clock settings
- adds channel labels
- adds notifications if the device is not updated or another software uses the MIDI port

---

v1.0.0 beta 4:
- fixes an issue where only the first of two or more MIDI devices with the same name would be selectable
(required fix for current MADIface Pro on Windows) 
- adds gain group mode
- minor changes in design

To update beta releases, activate "Check for beta updates" in MIDI settings and restart the software. Afterwards, new updates are found and installed when "Check for updates" is selected in the main menu.

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Great! Can it coexist with the old Midi Remote?
Georg

3 (edited by Max 2021-12-10 14:57:25)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Great! Can it coexist with the old Midi Remote?

That works in our tests so far. The 12Mic and AVB Tool have their own SysEx header, so an XTC and a 12Mic can also have the same device ID (both devices could have device ID 1, for example).
But please test and let us know if you encounter any issues.

Update: While this may work under some circumstances, it will ultimately lead to issues when the devices are daisy-chained and the remotes are connected to the same MIDI output. Only one remote can send messages to the devices on one MIDI over MADI stream, other remotes must be stopped. Two remote controls can only operate when they are each connected to a different MIDI output.

4 (edited by georgob 2021-06-13 09:46:09)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

In my setup xtc, 12mic, 12mic, 
Midi remote for octamic on, avb remote on.
Avb looses its connection after a time and cannot be reconnected.  I have to close and open it again.
Old midi remote is online the whole time.
And Sequoia is recording, sending midi remote play, rec, stop commands.(for use with a punchlight)
Georg

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

I could reproduce it (Windows only) - we'll fix that.
-Max

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Great, thanks.
Georg

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

It would be great to be able to name the channels.
In my setup the 12mics are for ch 9 to 20 and 21 to 32. I'd like to remember them in the remote, or give instruments name to them.
Georg

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

This is great, a total godsend - nice little bit of software too, maybe even preferable to the aux-device solution! It's very clear visually, super simple to see things in the heat of battle! Is the plan to fully "release" the Midi Remote for 12mic/AVB tool, or is this just a stop-gap and all future updates will be for aux-device only?

One quick question - I can only get this to work using midi port 4 (fireface ufx+ and 12mic connected via coax) - any reason port 3 wouldn't work?

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Thanks for the feedback! Yes, this will be released in future.
Regarding port selection on UFX+ - port 3 corresponds to the optical MADI signal. If changing the entire setup to optical connections, choosing MADI optical in and out in 12Mic/AVB Tool MIDI setup, the communication should work as well.

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Max wrote:

Thanks for the feedback! Yes, this will be released in future.
Regarding port selection on UFX+ - port 3 corresponds to the optical MADI signal. If changing the entire setup to optical connections, choosing MADI optical in and out in 12Mic/AVB Tool MIDI setup, the communication should work as well.

Morning Max, Matthias.
Just as an idea. This information should maybe be added to the UFX+ manual.
Although it appears logic after knowing it, it might be challenging when a device is new to directly/fully understand, that
- UFX+ MIDI port 1 and 2 are related to the two MIDI channels/busses on the device and
- UFX+ MIDI port 3 and 4 are related to MIDI over MADI through optical / coaxial MADI

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

11

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Hi Ramses,
I found it in the manual / 21.4 MIDI second paragraph.

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Great, then it has been added (had the old status still in mind).

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

13 (edited by klafkid 2021-07-18 17:44:25)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Thank you for this software! I am unable to connect via my MADIface Pro.
The manual says the MADIface Pro should provide a MADI Port called "MADI  Pro  Midi", but the only MADI Port shown in AVB Tools is "MF Pro MIDI", which in the manual is described to be connected to the 6-pin MIDI port.
Is MIDI Rremote AVB not set up for the MADIface Pro yet?

14

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Hi klafkid,
we will release a new beta that can recognize the second MF Pro MIDI port by next week & update this post accordingly.
Best regards,
Max

15 (edited by georgob 2021-07-21 12:17:10)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

A small bug - the first channel in the midi remote AVB turns completely yellow when turning the gain. No other knob behaves like this.
https://ibb.co/s1kNqsB

Georg

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

georgob wrote:

A small bug - the first channel in the midi remote AVB turns completely yellow when turning the gain. No other knob behaves like this.
https://ibb.co/s1kNqsB

Georg

Must be the "golden voice feature"
The mac version is without that feature.
Have you version 0.9.9 ?

M1-Ventura, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver

17 (edited by Max 2021-07-28 13:58:00)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Must be the "golden voice feature"

No, it is a strange case where a single channel is part of a gain group. Gain groups are shown in different colors. It would be interesting to see how that happened - if that issue is still there, could you save the current preset and then download it with the web remote?

We have uploaded a new beta version (links in the original post are updated). The beta release includes a mode to set or remove groups, and also changes the MIDI communication significantly behind the scenes. It is now possible to use the MADIface Pro (select the second MF Pro MIDI port).

Best regards,
Max

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Yellow first button is back to normal with the new version.
Thanks, Georg

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Can the 12mic with MIDI remote output MIDI commands via it's USB port (e.g. for punchlight)?

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Today i tried the avb midi remote again. The window does not appear on the screen of my laptop. I think it is because last time I had the remote on a second screen. Today I have only the internal screen and the remote window cannot be seen.
What can I do?
Are there preferences for the midi remote that can be erased?
Is this a bug of the midi remote or a windows bug?
Georg

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Solution is to right click on the midi remote preview window above the taskbar. Right click on it and maximise.
Georg

22 (edited by georgob 2021-12-09 14:27:45)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

I have problem running the old Midi Remote (Octamic XTC) together with the new AVB remote. Look what happens. The old midi remote goes all crazy. It seems to be only on the remote side, not on the hardware unit.
Please click on the link to see the animated gif.
https://i.ibb.co/DYyj9wb/Midi-remote.gif

My setup is:
PC with Madi Hdspe
Octamic XTC
12Mic
12Mic

I use Midi port 3 for the remote. Everything is connected in an optical Madi loop.
This also happens when I use my laptop with the old Madiface Expresscard.

Georg

23 (edited by Max 2021-12-10 14:59:44)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

I have an update concerning that. There is indeed a limitation on the amount of control messages that the preamps can process when receiving them, or more precisely the timing of the incoming messages matters for the devices. Therefore, only one software can send messages to the devices on a single MIDI over MADI connection. Either TotalMix or MIDI Remote or MIDI Remote AVB.

We know that this limitation is a problem for several users, and therefore we are preparing an update for XTC owners that will allow them to control 12Mic, AVB Tool and Octamic XTC at the same time in a daisy-chain. I will post the update here in the thread.

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Max wrote:

I have an update concerning that. There is indeed a limitation on the amount of control messages that the preamps can process when receiving them, or more precisely the timing of the incoming messages matters for the devices. Therefore, only one software can send messages to the devices on a single MIDI over MADI connection. Either TotalMix or MIDI Remote or MIDI Remote AVB.

We know that this limitation is a problem for several users, and therefore we are preparing an update for XTC owners that will allow them to control 12Mic, AVB Tool and Octamic XTC at the same time in a daisy-chain. I will post the update here in the thread.

Forgive me for asking, I know that things aren't ready until they are ready, but...

It's been over a month since this was posted. Is this update still being worked on? I have ongoing problems with controlling my 12mic and XTC in the same MADI loop.

Thanks.

25

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

vanceen wrote:

Is this update still being worked on?

Yes. We had prioritized level meters, channel labels and clock settings, along with a number of additional improvements 'under the hood' and concerning the overall user interface. I updated the links above for Beta 11. And I will post again when the solution to your problem is ready for testing.

26

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Beta 12 adds the OctaMic XTC for control and can be downloaded with the updated links above or within the software (when subscribed to beta updates) using 'Check for update...'.

27 (edited by cigame 2022-02-05 18:01:29)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Hallo Max
Ich hab das neue MIDI Remote AVB mit UFX+ > XTC > M1610 > UFX+ probiert.
Funktioniert mit MIDI over MADI optical.
Das bestellte 12 Mic kommt wohl erst Montag.
In sofern ist die Fernbedienung über TM eigentlich praktischer.
Und 12mic Fernbedienung in TM braucht noch etwas bei euch, oder?

Die beiden gelben LEDs am XTC (CTRL 1, CTRL 0) blinken wenn ich die App im Hintergrund laufen lasse oder auf einen zweiten Desktop schiebe.
Ich vermute, dass dann die MIDI Verbindung reduziert wird um den Prozessor zu entlasten, oder?

UFX+ XTC, ADI 8 QS w/madi
12 Mic, M1610 pro
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Looks good so far.
I would like to scale everything, it takes quite an amount of screenspace here.
Thank you for the possibility to label the channels of the 12mic. Could we get the same for the Octamic XTC as well?

Georg

29

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

cigame wrote:

I tried the new MIDI Remote AVB with UFX+ > XTC > M1610 > UFX+.
Works with MIDI over MADI optical.
The ordered 12 Mic comes probably only Monday.
Therefore the remote control via TM is actually more practical.
And 12mic remote control in TM still needs some time from you, right?

The two yellow LEDs on the XTC (CTRL 1, CTRL 0) flash when I let the app run in the background or move it to a second desktop.
I assume that the MIDI connection is then reduced to relieve the processor, right?

I don't mind responding in German, but for the sake of usability and as a gesture towards the international users of our forum, let's keep English threads in English and German threads in German, distinguishable by the topic title. A simple Google translate helps to bridge the gap. Thanks!

Yes, AUX support has not made it up to the top of the task list for TotalMix.
Also yes, the MIDI polling is reduced when the app is not visible to reduce unnecessary CPU load.

georgob wrote:

Thank you for the possibility to label the channels of the 12mic. Could we get the same for the Octamic XTC as well?

They can be labeled in this remote, but the labels cannot be transmitted to the XTC or received from the XTC. They are only saved locally (per snapshot). The XTC does not and will not support channel labels on the device as the 12Mic & AVB Tool do.

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

They can be labeled in this remote, but the labels cannot be transmitted to the XTC or received from the XTC. They are only saved locally (per snapshot). The XTC does not and will not support channel labels on the device as the 12Mic & AVB Tool do.

Thanks! I tried renumbering the wrong field. It is clear, this cannot be shown on the Octamic itself.
Georg

31 (edited by georgob 2022-02-07 12:10:33)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

I cannot set the Octamic XTC to 96 kHz with the remote. My setup is Octamic XTC, 12Mic, 12Mic. The dropdown menu is hidden by the GUI of the lower 12mic.

Also I would need to scale the GUI. I takes up too much screenspace. I cannot even see all of the 12Mics controls without scrolling to the right. (I am still on 1280*1024, with my laptop on 1440*900 it fits. )

Is there a chance to name the presets on the Octamic XTC as well? Just for the remote of course.

I always get the warning that another application uses the midi port. I made sure, totalmix does not use midi, have no daw open, I really dont know what to do about this.  (info: not sysex).  How can I find out which app sends out that midi?

V 1.00b12

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Thanks for this update!

I'm also getting the "MIDI port busy" message. I've unchecked "Enable MIDI Control" in TotalMix. The message only stops when I use Task Manager to stop TotalMix completely. This is of course not satisfactory.

Everything else works fine. If I don't have to stop TotalMix, it can be a good stopgap until AUX support finally comes to TotalMix.

33

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

We uploaded a new beta version.

georgob wrote:

I cannot set the Octamic XTC to 96 kHz with the remote. My setup is Octamic XTC, 12Mic, 12Mic. The dropdown menu is hidden by the GUI of the lower 12mic.

Fixed in beta 13.

georgob wrote:

Also I would need to scale the GUI. I takes up too much screenspace. I cannot even see all of the 12Mics controls without scrolling to the right. (I am still on 1280*1024, with my laptop on 1440*900 it fits. )

There is a [-] button to reduce the width of 12Mic channel strips so that all fits nicely in 1280. Does that solve your issue, or do you need to scale other aspects of the GUI?
Beta 13 also persists, saves and recalls the size settings for each snapshot.

georgob wrote:

Is there a chance to name the presets on the Octamic XTC as well? Just for the remote of course.

Added in beta 13 for all devices. Note that 12Mic and AVB Tool also have preset names stored in the device - those are currently not transferred over MIDI in either direction.

georgob wrote:

I always get the warning that another application uses the midi port. I made sure, totalmix does not use midi, have no daw open, I really dont know what to do about this.  (info: not sysex).  How can I find out which app sends out that midi?

Have a look in the [MIDI] setup. It shows the incoming and outgoing MIDI messages. What do you see there?

vanceen wrote:

I'm also getting the "MIDI port busy" message. I've unchecked "Enable MIDI Control" in TotalMix. The message only stops when I use Task Manager to stop TotalMix completely. This is of course not satisfactory.

The "Enable MIDI control" in TotalMix refers to the general MIDI control, not to Aux devices. In order to stop MIDI for AUX devices, you currently have to go through the list in the corresponding tab of TotalMix and remove the MIDI interface from the assignment.

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Hi Max, Thanks for the new beta.
When I reduce the channel strips, it fits. still it looks a bit "big" on my screen. it could be much smaller and dense. But maybe it is only my personal opinion on my outdated screens...

The Midi port busy notification says Device model 0x1 Device ID 0 message type 0x0

Have a look in the [MIDI] setup. It shows the incoming and outgoing MIDI messages. What do you see there?

Midi messages scrolling through on input and output. I gues it is the AVB Midi remote talking and listening.

The "Enable MIDI control" in TotalMix refers to the general MIDI control, not to Aux devices. In order to stop MIDI for AUX devices, you currently have to go through the list in the corresponding tab of TotalMix and remove the MIDI interface from the assignment.

This is inactive here.

Will it be possible to use the midi over madi for other applications as well together with the midi remote? In my setup I have a punchlight (automatic red light over midi) that lights up when play or record is sent over Midi HWC (Sequoia). I only have play and record enabled and sent for it to work. But right now it seems this still messes up the communication with the AVB Midi remote.

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Max wrote:
vanceen wrote:

I'm also getting the "MIDI port busy" message. I've unchecked "Enable MIDI Control" in TotalMix. The message only stops when I use Task Manager to stop TotalMix completely. This is of course not satisfactory.

The "Enable MIDI control" in TotalMix refers to the general MIDI control, not to Aux devices. In order to stop MIDI for AUX devices, you currently have to go through the list in the corresponding tab of TotalMix and remove the MIDI interface from the assignment.

Yes, that works.

Thanks again, this will be useful. I still look forward to being able to control my UFX+, 12mic, and Octamic XTC with one tool, hopefully TotalMix.

36 (edited by Max 2022-02-09 02:48:33)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

georgob wrote:

Will it be possible to use the midi over madi for other applications as well together with the midi remote? In my setup I have a punchlight (automatic red light over midi) that lights up when play or record is sent over Midi HWC (Sequoia). I only have play and record enabled and sent for it to work. But right now it seems this still messes up the communication with the AVB Midi remote.

In our tests there were no destructive errors even if we detect other messages and show the warning message. So, for example, you do not suddenly end up changing gain values in the devices or toggling phantom power unintentionally. The type of error that occurs when responses of the MIDI devices are interleaved with information that they pass through at the same time affects the integrity of the device responses. If they are broken, MIDI Remote AVB detects that and ignores them in most cases, and receives the correct value in a later follow-up message. So the problem is temporary and self-healing.
I personally wouldn't worry about running the punchlight on the same MIDI signal, since its messages will be mostly triggered when you are not using the remote app and won't even notice a lag or something like that.

37 (edited by georgob 2022-02-09 16:04:14)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

That sounds good, thanks for the response. I noticed weird behaviour in the AVB Midi remote though when I enabled the Punchlight in Sequoia.
Funny enough not in the 12 Mic, but only in the octamic XTC remote:
https://gifyu.com/image/SzktS
Georg

38 (edited by ramses 2022-02-09 16:30:34)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

georgob wrote:

That sounds good, thanks for the response. I noticed weird behaviour in the AVB Midi remote though when I enabled the Punchlight in Sequoia.
Funny enough not in the 12 Mic, but only in the octamic XTC remote:
https://gifyu.com/image/SzktS
Georg

This looks as if the XTC does not properly handle remote control information.

What appears strange to me, I had this in a different setup when I mixed two different remote control protocols.
1. Auxdevice for an XTC
2. MIDI remote (the old app) for a ADI-8 QSM
Both using MIDI over MADI.

The outcome of this was, that
- there seems to be a race condition in the XTC that could not be fixed (I do not remember exactly the details)
- you need to separate devices to different MADI busses if you need to use both, Auxdevice and MIDI remote

[ But not all MADI capable devices have several MADI busses like HDSPe MADI (FX) and MADIface XT, so on UFX+ impossible to separate this...]

I still see a certain similarity here, because again the XTC somehow gets confused and doesn't seem to care only about its own remote control data, even if the same remote control application/protocol (the new MIDI remote app) is being used, no mix of e.g. Auxdevice and MIDIremote. And in the animated GIF I see only the Octamic XTC playing "light organ", a random misinterpretation of remote commands.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

It also happens with the old midi remote and with my punchlight active btw.
Georg

40 (edited by georgob 2022-02-10 09:32:20)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

And fyi, these are the midi commands I am using fo the punchlight:
https://gifyu.com/image/SzmnC

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

In the XTC routing, third column: Input MADI 15-32
Should be 25-32

UFX+ XTC, ADI 8 QS w/madi
12 Mic, M1610 pro
MacBookPro M1
Logic Pro X

42

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

cigame wrote:

Should be 25-32

Fixed in beta 14

ramses wrote:

This looks as if the XTC does not properly handle remote control information.

It does, but with very strict conditions that cannot be improved.

Beta 14 brings a couple of other minor improvements and we plan to release this soon, in combination with the newest firmware Beta 14.

43 (edited by medranho 2022-06-21 23:39:52)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

Hello

Some issues with remote AVB:
- Received message old firmware detected in 12mic but firmware is up-to-date
- In XTC options/midi routing/, usb1 and din change at the same time, the same with usb2 and madi. Modifications in din and madi have no effect in the device.


My setup is similar to georgob, ufx+ — 12Mic — XTC via madi
I use a punchlight midi connected to XTC but only works when the order is ufx -> XTC -> 12Mic. With 12Mic before XTC doesn’t work. Any ideas?

Thanks

UFX+, ARC USB, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 PRO FS R, 12Mic

44 (edited by ramses 2022-08-23 07:48:40)

Re: MIDI Remote for 12Mic and AVB Tool

One thing is confusing. From your 1st post it appears, as if 1.0 Beta 14 was the last Beta, and then you released v 1.0.0.

After installing v1.0.0 you can click to “File->Check for beta update” and then Beta 14 is being installed.

Is this a bug that 1.0 is being upgraded to 1.0b14? What is the “latest and greatest” version 1.0.0 or 1.0.0 Beta 14?

Could be useful to rename the title of this thread, it's confusing that you mention 12Mic and AVB Tool explicitly, but not Octamic XTC.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro