Topic: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Apparently the minimized work load of DigiCheck has its disadvantages....
...with silly Windows XP.
While recording(!), Windows decided that my PC is not really occupied and
started to defragment the HD. Of course, the buffers were a bit too
small for that and soon DigiCheck showed HD loads exceeding 4000% (four thousand).
Accidentally I was facing the PC in the moment this happened, and could see
dfrgntfs appear and disappear in the TaskManager. Didn't believe it.

Is this behaviour common?
Can I stop it? (I couldn't find a switch in Windows.)

Regards, and thanks for hints, Klaus

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Check your "Scheduled Tasks" in "Control Panel". My guess is that you might have an active task there.

Regards,

    b.

https://granurise.com

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Thanks b.! However, no scheduled task....

In the meantime I learned that you cannot switch off the automatic defragmentation
in a Windows setup, but you can by modifying the registry. I downloaded TweakUI XP
from Microsoft which includes a setting under 'General', reading 'Optimize hard
disk when idle' which has to be unchecked. (Default is checked.)
Fingers crossed..... Klaus

4

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Please keep us posted, very interesting issue! I also wonder how to stop Vista from riding the hard drive all the time...and how a notebook is supposed to save energy with this foolish behaviour going on and on and on...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

I've NEVER had windows XP automatically de-frag my HD's.  Maybe it has something to do with using O&O Defrag as my native defrag app?

in Vista, you should be able to open disk defragmenter, and de-select "Defragment on a schedule" or whatever.  Vista will still Pre-Fetch (superfetch) like crazy after a reboot unless you specifically disable the Superfetching service IIRC.  This can resemble defraging or indexing behavior in my experience.

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Randyman... wrote:

I've NEVER had windows XP automatically de-frag my HD's.

Same here, none of my machines do this... I don't think this is a default setting in XP.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Hi Klaus,

Witch version of TweakUI XP you have? I don't have 'Optimise hard disk when idle' option at all.

BTW: I also never had defrag going on while in IDLE.

What about "Allow indexing service to index disk for fast file searching"? I had a lot of disk activity when this function was turned on (windows explorer, right click on disk drive, it is at the bottom)

Regards,

    b.

https://granurise.com

8

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Ok, it is not defragging under Vista, but the HD is always doing something, and that seems to be more than just the Superfetch. Whatever...

XP in idle mode triggered hard drive activity too. For example rearranging the virtual memory etc. But not defragging, that's correct.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Most likely indexing, as minimalB suggested.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

10

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Not at all, as this is the first thing I switch off on all drives.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Ah - I think I know why I never get this in XP - I ALWAYS diable "Optimize Hard Disk when Idle" using nLite prior to installing the OS, so I actually forgot that this was a "default" in XP (my nLite "sessions/settings" are saved, so I forgot that I disabled this ages ago).

Vista does seeem to go crazy on the HD for a while after a fresh boot, but it will eventually calm down.  I'll have to double check my install of Vista that was HEAVILY stripped down and see if it still exhibits this behaviour (I gave up on it after I couldn't eliminate the 960us DPC spikes sad ).

I'm not exactly sure what Superfecting is doing (is it re-packaging/re-arranging stuff or just cashing exe's and stuff to RAM), but I'd assume it is responsible for at least part of the HD activity on boot-up (for a good 3-5 minutes).

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

MC wrote:

Not at all, as this is the first thing I switch off on all drives.

None of my XP machines initiate disk activity when idle... Will have to check again, but I think my Vista PC doesn't do so, either.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

WinXP - How to manually disable "Optimize Hard Disk when Idle" in registry:

System Key: [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\OptimalLayout]
Value Name: EnableAutoLayout
Data Type: REG_DWORD (DWORD Value)
Value Data: (0 = disabled, 1 = enabled)

http://www.pctools.com/guides/registry/detail/1309/

Regards,

    b.

https://granurise.com

14 (edited by Timur 2009-01-17 14:23:48)

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

The "Optimize Hard Disk when Idle" function is a partial defragmentation run. It reorganizes all startup and executable files according to the LAYOUT.INI file which is build up by PREFETCH. As far as I remember it runs every three days after 15 minutes of Idle time. There is no Task Scheduler entry for that, but the mentioned Registry entry should handle that (my favorite defragger UltimateDefrag offers to deactivate it for me and handles LAYOUT.INI himself, so I didn't check).

On Vista there is a default Task Scheduler entry running DEFRAG.EXE -C -I every wednesday at 1:00 am. It is set to run only during Idle (after 3 minutes) and will restart if it's been interrupted. It will be terminated after running for three days. Additionally Windows Defender is set to do a quick check every day at 2:00 am. Search Index does one big indexing run and from there on will only kick in whenever a file in one of the indexed directories is written to.

All background disc activity in Vista (Defrag, Superfetch, Search Index, Defender) runs at "very low" disc I/O priority and thus does not interfere with normal disc activity. That means that once your DAW needs to read or write data to/from disc the background disc activity is interrupted by Windows until the disc free to use again, just like with low priority CPU processes. The activity may lead to more R/W-head movement in your HD though and thus affect access times slightly. All DAWs and sample-based plugins use their own file-caching algorithms though and should not be very much affected at all.

Once that weekly defrag has finished (or is turned off) and Superfetch (which reads ahead from disc whenever there is free RAM available) is finished fetching files or turned off there is no considerable disc-activity happening on my system anymore (Vista 64-bit atm) apart from a few sporadic I/Os when processes like Explorer access the Registry and Search Indexer checking for updated files (can be turned off) and system log-files being written to.

One other source for disc activity can be automated Windows Update and any software/drivers that may automatically search the internet for updates. Antivirus applications like Norton do a "System Scan" by default after each update! So if you suffer from constant activity you may want to check those first.

You can use Vista's "Performance Monitor" to watch which processes produce CPU, Disc, Network and RAM activity including the priorities and amount of activity.

15 (edited by k_numigl 2009-01-20 12:44:59)

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Hi minimalB,
the Tweak UI I used is straight from the Microsoft page (Powertoys) and is labeled as V 2.10.
On my system, indexing is switched off, as well as auto updates &c.. I deactivated most services, too.

Nevertheless, I experience a funny problem with the hard disk:
After an hour of recording or so (varying) DigiCheck reports HD errors (duration about 2 sec,
mostly about 40 - 50 errors) and severe drop outs are audible. The strange thing is: I cannot
identify a process which is related to that. I checked with Filemon (File Monitor, Sysinternals)
and with Performance Monitor (applied filter: operation: write) but there's simply nothing related.
So I wonder what is going on.

This is my internal system disk (modern Hitachi 500 GB), and, of course, I can record e.g.
on my external USB disk which is fast enough for me and shows no errors up to the 3 hours
I had it running. Would like to be able to use the internal disk as backup, though (and to
understand the disk behaviour).

K.

P.S.: No auto defrag up to date. (I got used to run Filemon while recording to see what happens.
When digicheck is filtered out, the result is small enough to maintain an overview.)

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

having talked to my 'scientific adviser board', I give up the apparent illusion
to sufficiently control the system disk and will record exclusively on the data disks -
just as everybody else. k.

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Would somebody direct me to a more detailed Vista DAW tweak information source?
Appreciate it.

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

@hazna
Please tell whether you already visited audioforums vista site or not.
If not, this may be the site you are looking for.
K.

Re: Can I prevent Windows to defragment the HD while DigiCheck records?

Thanks
I have not.
I just moved to Vista "finely" 2 weeks ago.
I am wrong to state that Vista Networking is faster then XP.
I install my software from a NAS and it took me a lot less time.