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RME User Forum → FireWire & USB series → The official Babyface Pro Thread
what is the L/B balance ?
Do you mean L/R panning ?
What means HOLD ?
Can you use Totalmix on the computer with the mouse normal ?
Then you should be able to mix and work on your music project...
I would try reflash the firmware. What version is on ?
what is the L/B balance ?
Do you mean L/R panning ?
What means HOLD ?
Can you use Totalmix on the computer with the mouse normal ?
Then you should be able to mix and work on your music project...I would try reflash the firmware. What version is on ?
Thank you for your reply.
L/ R balance = Output Balance.
The SELECT button always active = always HOLD down. And right level meters show two bars, lit up until the yellow LEDs always.
Yes, TotalMix can be operated normally with the mouse, but adjusting the volume is not as quick and intuitive as the encoder. So I want to disable or bypass SELECT button.
Driver and Firmware all are the lastest version: 1270 & 321.
I personally think it's a hardware problem with the micro switch, even though I've pressed the SELECT button less than ten times in over a year. By the way, the Encoder fell out of the bag when I unboxed this new one on the first day I, so I'm honestly not too surprised by the micro switch failure. But it's still not nice to come back from a cup of coffee and find that the button is failed.
Ah I understand.
Yes I agree the handling of Totalmix with the mouse is less comfortable for you, it is just a workaround in the emergency time.
Has the unit still warranty ? Then I would contact the seller and send in.
Otherwise I would open the unit and take off that button. Under the feet are four screws and the big wheel can be taken off with something like a credit card carefully under the knob.
I do not recomend to open the device, it is just what I would do for myself as I am mechanic.
The Babyface Pro FS is worth for maintenance by the official service partners.
Ah I understand.
Yes I agree the handling of Totalmix with the mouse is less comfortable for you, it is just a workaround in the emergency time.
Has the unit still warranty ? Then I would contact the seller and send in.
Otherwise I would open the unit and take off that button. Under the feet are four screws and the big wheel can be taken off with something like a credit card carefully under the knob.
I do not recomend to open the device, it is just what I would do for myself as I am mechanic.The Babyface Pro FS is worth for maintenance by the official service partners.
Thanks a lot for suggestions.
If possible, I would like to disable / bypass the SELECT button through TotalMix first.
It is inconvenient to send it back to the dealer for repair in my area, and the dealer is difficult to contact and they will not respond to email technical support.
I am now concerned that the micro switches of other buttons may also have problems soon.
I strongly warn against opening the BF Pro and removing its main board. Internal connection cables can be damaged easily and are very hard to repair if damaged.
Please send the unit in.
The button can not be disabled 'from external', as it is a direct hardware function within the device.
I strongly warn against opening the BF Pro and removing its main board. Internal connection cables can be damaged easily and are very hard to repair if damaged.
Please send the unit in.
The button can not be disabled 'from external', as it is a direct hardware function within the device.
Thank you Mr. MC for your reply.
My device is probably out of warranty since the dealer seems to only offer a one-year warranty, so as long as there are no other hardware failures that affect music production, I will continue to use this device until I complete all my projects, just like my nickname: Not many days left for muisc.
Right meters are showing two bars LEDs always.
Please send the unit in.
That photo looks like the Select button is lower positioned than when pressed, as if the PCB is broken inside...
That photo looks like the Select button is lower positioned than when pressed, as if the PCB is broken inside...
Uh...that doesn't sound like good news.
I have some suggestion regarding efficient usage of DSP computing power. The Babyface Pro FS can calculate seven equalizers on the input channels and six on the output channels plus reverb and echo. Makes 15 effects in total. However the vast majority does not need all those effects since not all inputs or outputs are connected or they do not require the equalizer.
So I suggest a firmware and software upgrade that works with a DSP load model. Every equalizer takes 5% DSP load, reverb and echo 15%. So if a compressor/limiter effect would take 60% DSP load it would still fit as long as you don't need more than one equalizer.
Some claimed it's only about USB power limitations that there are not full effects. But there is an external 12 V input. RME could enable more DSP power if the 12 V is connected.
RME cannot enable more DSP power, if BF run on external power.... The thing is that because of USB power delivery limit, there is no DSP chip, and so not enought DSP computing power....
Reverb and echo is not processed in BF, it is processed on computer.... You are right that theoretically, DSP could be selectively, but practically, it is probably hard to implement...
I would like to have compressor or RoomEQ in Babyface.... But it is IMHO no go on current HW. Hopefully in the next HW version of BF.
BBF Pro has no DSP inside. Thus no full implementation of FX (USB2 power not sufficient for that).
Therefore the situation is like Kubrak highlighted already:
- EQ calculated by the FPGA
- Reverb and Echo processed on PC
- No dynamic effects (compressor, limiter, noise gate)
RoomEQ and Crossfeed would have needed this separate DSP chip.
But even if a device has a DSP inside, it is no guarantee, that there are enough resources to implement RoomEQ and Crossfeed. This needed a review of RME. The outcome was, that for UCX II, 802 FS, UFX II/III, UFX+ it was possible.
But for the HDSPe MADI FX you need a never version of the card, otherwise also impossible.
We should be glad, that many good devices could get it as a firmware upgrade and this free of charge.
RME cannot enable more DSP power, […] there is no DSP chip
What leads you to that assumption? It is not true. At least according to RME: "The FPGA-based DSP mixer adds a flexible, 3-band parametric equalizer to all inputs and outputs. Reverb and delay FX are also available." Remember "FPGA-based DSP" is like "bread baked with wheat flour" so a very normal DSP. Assuming it had no DSP that means the EQ would be analogue. And the device heavily overpriced.
Reverb and echo is not processed in BF, it is processed on computer....
Same here, source? If it would be processed in the computer it would be even easier to provide the same effects as on the more expensive interfaces. If it would be calculated on the computer I would see a increase in latency when enabling the FX. But I have a constant latency of 5.7 ms measured with RTL utility from Oblique Audio. This is excellent.
I would like to have compressor or RoomEQ in Babyface....
Indeed!
There is one more argument for my suggestion: The Babyface Pro FS can handle 192 kHz. For many (my) applications 44 kHz is sufficient. That is 24% the computing power the DSP can obivously handle. So with a smarter firmware one could assign the saved computing power to a more sophisticated effect.
Kubrak wrote:RME cannot enable more DSP power, […] there is no DSP chip
1- What leads you to that assumption? It is not true. At least according to RME: "The FPGA-based DSP mixer adds a flexible, 3-band parametric equalizer to all inputs and outputs. Reverb and delay FX are also available." Remember "FPGA-based DSP" is like "bread baked with wheat flour" so a very normal DSP. Assuming it had no DSP that means the EQ would be analogue.
2- And the device heavily overpriced.
Kubrak wrote:Reverb and echo is not processed in BF, it is processed on computer....
3- Same here, source? If it would be processed in the computer it would be even easier to provide the same effects as on the more expensive interfaces. If it would be calculated on the computer I would see a increase in latency when enabling the FX. But I have a constant latency of 5.7 ms measured with RTL utility from Oblique Audio. This is excellent.
Kubrak wrote:I would like to have compressor or RoomEQ in Babyface....
Indeed!
4- There is one more argument for my suggestion: The Babyface Pro FS can handle 192 kHz. For many (my) applications 44 kHz is sufficient. That is 24% the computing power the DSP can obivously handle. So with a smarter firmware one could assign the saved computing power to a more sophisticated effect.
To 1 + 3, if you were more regular in this forum, then you would know it.
To 2, please have a look below ++)
To 4. The BBF Pro is missing a DSP for FX and RoomEQ/Crossfeed.
The power budget of USB2 won't allow this.
See my posting, it explained already everything to you, what you need to know
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p236542
++) Sorry, but you don't seem very familiar with RME products.
All RME devices are equipped with FPGAs which are flashable, so all aspects of potential errors on the device can be fully fixed. There is also no third-party communication chips that could bottleneck performance. The FPGA even does the USB communication. The drivers are outstanding: extremely stable with ultra-low latency.
Moreover, there's a DSP mixer with excellent features and a level of maturity that's practically unmatched in this class. The best DSP mixer on the market. RME has been consistently using TotalMix [FX] across all their products for over 25 years.
The manuals? Exceptionally well-structured and of a quality that's hard to find these days. Plus, RME includes a whole range of highly useful free software tools, like DIGICheck and the newer DIGICheck NG. Standalone audio analysis tools of this quality would easily cost around €400 on the open market. Not to forget TotalMix Remote for LAN-based control of TotalMix FX.
RME also offers an unusually long driver and firmware update service — for some products, continuing for over 20 years now.
Other highlights include:different reference levels, femtosecond quartz clocks, extremely fast converters.
A support team and user forum that actually understands the technical details and can provide real help.
I suspect you're comparing RME to typical consumer-grade products, which don't offer even a fraction of this functionality and whose product lifecycles usually max out at around five years.
In contrast to that, a well-maintained, not-too-old used RME interface can often still sell for around 70-80% of its current street price.
And now look at the price history of geizhals, prices went down again, no reason to complain:
Kubrak wrote:I would like to have compressor or RoomEQ in Babyface....
Indeed!
There is one more argument for my suggestion: The Babyface Pro FS can handle 192 kHz. For many (my) applications 44 kHz is sufficient. That is 24% the computing power the DSP can obivously handle. So with a smarter firmware one could assign the saved computing power to a more sophisticated effect.
Theoretically, on paper, it might be possible. Practically... Who knows? Maybe, it is not doable, because it would not fit into FPGA, or RAM is needed, that Babyface does not have, or just too complicated to implement and maintain (so costly). Prone to bugs... Inpractical - one has certain setup that runs on 44/48k, but would not if sample rate rises....
Many possible reasons not to go that way.
bedeutendunwiderstehlich... wrote
the device heavily overpriced
Babyface Pro FS is worth much more than its price list. The software - TotalMix - alone is worth the list price. Babyface Pro FS is very reliable, works without fault, compatible with a wide range of devices, is versatile in terms of inputs & outputs.
Perhaps not everyone can afford it, but there are plenty devices with this characteristic.
In fact, I am puzzled, how can RME maintain the same price since 2019 (possibly earlier).
Babyface Pro FS ranks #11 in USB audio interfaces at Thomann. In my opinion, it speaks well about the price / feature / quality ratio. There must be some reason behind it.
And the price came down a lot.
2 years ago it was over 800, now it's 670.- CHF
To me the price seems to be fair.
And the support (forum, email, conference video call etc. is for free ! )
What leads you to that assumption? It is not true. At least according to RME: "The FPGA-based DSP mixer adds a flexible, 3-band parametric equalizer to all inputs and outputs. Reverb and delay FX are also available."
Don't confuse DSP as a function (digital signal processing) with DSP as a device (digital signal processor). In that sense, FPGA can perform some signal processing, but the Babyface Pro lacks the dedicated digital signal processor chip found in higher-level RME interfaces. That's what Kubrak had in mind and that's how most of us understand it here; it's rather impolite to pick on words and make strawman arguments.
Remember "FPGA-based DSP" is like "bread baked with wheat flour" so a very normal DSP. Assuming it had no DSP that means the EQ would be analogue.
Such speculations are not based on actual facts of the matter.
And the device heavily overpriced.
This could be a valid opinion provided there were other interfaces with at least the same performance, feature set (or even with a full-featured DSP chip that you demand) and support level at lower price. But there are none.
My idea was to place a public feature request and get some other users to support this. I did not ask a question.
Instead I get lots of replies from other users that try to educate me why this is not possible. On one hand it's nice to see RME as a community of fans. It seems that those fans prefer to pay for new hardware with a more powerful DSP to getting a firmware update that would use the current DSP's power in a smarter way.
I am not an audio expert but I have developed DSP applications in other domains so you don't have to explain me if an FPGA is a DSP or not.
I did not write that the Babyface is overpriced. Please read carefully. But given how rigorous the reactions are the price of the unit might be an issue.
Connected a new mic to my Babyface Pro FS and am now getting feedback from my monitors whenever my Mac reboots (M1 Max, Sequoia 15.4.1).
It seems when TotalMix is offline, BFP it loses previous settings and unmutes the mic in the speaker output mix. Seems like it’s been happening for some time (maybe always?), but wasn't an issue until I switched from a mono mic with lower gain to a stereo mic set higher for a new project.
Can confirm it is not falling back to CC routing—when I boot into CC mode, main output is at minimum with DIM engaged.
Apologies if this has been asked and answered - didn’t find in search which may be a failure on my part. Any tips or solutions would be appreciated!
You are right, it is not falling back into CC-mode, but it is falling into standalone-mode when the computer is off and the Babyface is connected to the power suply.
You have to go thru the settings and turn down the routing from mic to the speakers.
You have to do this manually at the unit when in standalone-mode.
This routing keeps stored in the unit.
User manual pages 90 and 91 are important for this.
Thank you, @waedi! Greatly appreciated
This is exactly what's happening with my Babyface and new laptop, too. However, I've found that if I had lowered the volume when in the brief time CC mode is on, the same volume settings are retained when the system boots. Also, when I restart the system, if I don't turn down the volume beforehand, the CC mode will still have feedback. Best way is turning off the left speaker when computer boots.
You are right, it is not falling back into CC-mode, but it is falling into standalone-mode when the computer is off and the Babyface is connected to the power suply.
You have to go thru the settings and turn down the routing from mic to the speakers.
You have to do this manually at the unit when in standalone-mode.
This routing keeps stored in the unit.
User manual pages 90 and 91 are important for this.
Mind that you have to set the routing and volume when Babyface is in the standalone mode.
Hello everyone, my first post here. I have just acquired, second-hand, a coveted Babyface Pro FS. I have a Mac running Sequoia and I followed the procedure for installing the driver.
The problem that appeared immediately was that I noticed micro-cuts in the output sound when watching videos, for example. If I do the same thing with my Audient ID14 MK1 nothing like that happens, the sound is without any interruption or crack or micro-cuts.
Is my unit defective? I have a few days to return it
Thank you.
[...]
I followed the procedure for installing the driver
[...]
Which Mac device do you have? Intel, M1 or higher?
Which driver/version did you install, DriverKit or Kernel Extension driver?
See https://rme-audio.de/rme-macos.html
Thank you for your prompt reply. Before testing it on my Macbook Pro M1 Max, since I don't have the dock yet, I wanted to test it on my Intel Hackintosh. I installed driver_usbdk_mac_427.zip and no Kernel Extension driver. In fact, I've been wondering whether it's necessary or not...
Thank you for your prompt reply. Before testing it on my Macbook Pro M1 Max, since I don't have the dock yet, I wanted to test it on my Intel Hackintosh. I installed driver_usbdk_mac_427.zip and no Kernel Extension driver. In fact, I've been wondering whether it's necessary or not...
Thanks — with this information, it's easier for forum members with deeper macOS knowledge to assist you.
Sorry, that was what I meant to say. Thanks for pointing it out!
Mind that you have to set the routing and volume when Babyface is in the standalone mode.
Thank you for your prompt reply. Before testing it on my Macbook Pro M1 Max, since I don't have the dock yet, I wanted to test it on my Intel Hackintosh. I installed driver_usbdk_mac_427.zip and no Kernel Extension driver. In fact, I've been wondering whether it's necessary or not...
On the Mac only install one driver is need. I never heard of a computer that needs two audio drivers for one interface.
If you want to test the interface, connect it with an USB cable to the Mac directly without any dock. Hackintosh is not supported in any way from anywhere.
May I ask something weird here? Just got a BF Pro FS at a quite significant discount. Box sealed, looks new, smells new, etc. However what freaks me out just a very little bit is: a) Manual says the LED brightness is 25% by default, mine was at 100% initially; b) TotalMix FX > ARC & Key Commands > OUT, A, B — not default settings, i.e. "A" was set to "Toggle Totalmix Windows". Otherwise everything is fine overall. Can it be some refurbished or, I don't know, some kind of a second hand one? Just curious.
Edit: or the ARC commands are not stored inside the BF Pro FS, it's just the software, the TM settings?
Exactly.
Subject: Babyface Pro FS – No Reverb/Echo in Standalone Mode?
Hello everyone,
I'm a happy owner of a RME Fireface UCX II for about a year now, mainly used in standalone mode, occasionally with TotalMix FX. For a more mobile setup, I’ve been looking into the Babyface Pro FS.
While reading the Babyface Pro FS manual (English version, p.54), I came across this:
"The Babyface Pro uses a DSP engine within its FPGA for all the calculations of all the EQs and Low Cuts, in parallel to the TotalMix DSP mixing engine. However, Reverb and Echo are calculated on the host CPU – the computer. On current computers, this will not cause any noticeable CPU load."
This was surprising to me. The UCX II manual doesn’t mention this limitation, and I’ve confirmed that Reverb and Echo do work in standalone mode on my UCX II – no computer needed.
So my questions are:
Is this a known limitation of the Babyface Pro FS?
Is it due to a less capable FPGA (to accommodate USB power constraints maybe)?
Even though the Babyface has a DC input, why is the DSP not self-contained like on the UCX II?
Has anyone here experienced this as a practical limitation?
For me, it’s a real concern, since my use case is highly dependent on the unit functioning fully in standalone.
Thanks in advance for your insights!
The Babyface Pro [FS] is designed as a mobile interface and therefore has to run reliably on standard USB 2 bus power.
A full FX implementation, which needs a dedicated DSP, is not possible within this power limit.
The solution is a split approach: part of the processing is handled by the FPGA inside the unit (EQ, low cuts), while another part (reverb, echo) is handled by the driver on the computer.
The dynamics section would need to run directly on the hardware to avoid added latency, but there are no FPGA resources left in the device for that. With a more powerful FPGA, you would again exceed the power budget and could not use the BBF Pro USB 2 bus-powered.
Thank you for your explanation.
Seems quite logical, I was quite sure it was a limitation due to USB-Powered requirements. Thanks for confirmation. I'm now trying to negociate an exchange+upgrade with the store for a second UCX II instead. Hope it will be possible as I bought it Friday evening (we're on Sunday) and never used it.
Thank you for your explanation.
Seems quite logical, I was quite sure it was a limitation due to USB-Powered requirements. Thanks for confirmation. I'm now trying to negociate an exchange+upgrade with the store for a second UCX II instead. Hope it will be possible as I bought it Friday evening (we're on Sunday) and never used it.
Which / how many ports do you need?
Perhaps it would be better to get UFX II or III and to sell UCX II to have only one device.
Having only one device would avoid
- having to route through the DAW in cases like monitoring audio from UCX#1 through UCX#2.
- the need for clock synchronization between UCX II #1 and #2.
thanks Ramses for the suggestion, anyway I prefer owning two UCX II over a single UFX because :
- I can leave my main UCX for sedentary use without the hassle of wiring/unwiring cables each time I move, and carry the other one for nomad projects (after all it's only 1U half-rack, quite small).
- It's a backup if the main one has any issue
- I don't have many input/output requirements, the UCX II is fine in any case.
Btw, I love the UCX II because (but not only) I feed the output signal to my Genelec monitors via AES3, that's a really neat feature.
@kerouanton: understood. I only wanted to mention it, not knowing exactly your applications/use cases.
Hello dear forum
I recently purchased an RME Audio Babyface Pro FS. I installed it exactly according to the instructions. When I connected the device via USB-A to USB-B, it worked, but I couldn't see it in the audio settings on my Windows PC. The device is in PC mode. I also tried several different ports. When nothing else worked, I tried the USB-A to USB-C cable and everything worked.
Could the cable be defective, or is there something else wrong with the device?
Thank you very much for your help.
Possibly the USB-A socket of your computer (notebook ?) did provide less power than the USB-C connector ?
You may try with an external power supply.
And make sure the firmware is updated and use the latest driver.
Possibly the USB-A socket of your computer (notebook ?) did provide less power than the USB-C connector ?
You may try with an external power supply.
And make sure the firmware is updated and use the latest driver.
Thank you very much for your quick reply. That's what I thought. I just found it strange because it didn't work with USB 3.2 Gen 1, USB 3.2 Gen 2, or USB 2.0. I'll have to see if I can find another USB-A to USB-B cable. Then I could narrow down the problem. By the way, the motherboard is an ASUS ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI and it's a desktop PC. The drivers and firmware are up to date. Unfortunately, I don't think I have a suitable power supply.
The best power supply is the original RME because the plug has locking winglets.
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_ntcardbus_x.htm
Check the number of active WDM devices in the settings dialog.
In the setting dialog of the interface driver. It should not be set to 0. In that case Win do not offer it as audio source/output.
In the setting dialog of the interface driver. It should not be set to 0. In that case Win do not offer it as audio source/output.
Or in other words: otherwise the RME driver doesn't create the configured number of WDM-compatible drivers for Windows Sound.
Note: The order of I/O ports is like in the ASIO driver, so to configure WDM devices for e.g. ADAT I/O, then you need to enter a higher number to get those as well. Other ASIO drivers with a higher port count have a user dialog to select the wanted ports (MADIface driver).
These ports are created dynamically/immediately; you do not have to reboot Windows.
Open Windows Sound settings and watch the WDM devices being created.
waedi wrote:Possibly the USB-A socket of your computer (notebook ?) did provide less power than the USB-C connector ?
You may try with an external power supply.
And make sure the firmware is updated and use the latest driver.Thank you very much for your quick reply. That's what I thought. I just found it strange because it didn't work with USB 3.2 Gen 1, USB 3.2 Gen 2, or USB 2.0. I'll have to see if I can find another USB-A to USB-B cable. Then I could narrow down the problem. By the way, the motherboard is an ASUS ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI and it's a desktop PC. The drivers and firmware are up to date. Unfortunately, I don't think I have a suitable power supply.
The motherboard should be fine and generate enough power. I have an older ASUS ROG STRIX m/b and it works fine on mine. I’m using the blue socket (3.0) did you push the cable fully into the bfp fs? When I initially bought it I found you have to push it right in. When you do it really clicks in place. If you don’t it powers up but doesn’t work.
Now it suddenly works with the USB-A cable too. Maybe I really hadn't plugged it in far enough. Or maybe it's the updated firmware, even though I thought I had tested it again after the update.
Thank you all very much for your quick help.
My Babyface Pro stopped working after trying to update to the new 211/322 firmware. The tool said the backup was bad and I should update it. Which I did. Then Windows came up with the message "Last USB device not recognized" and since then the Babyface doesn't start at all. No LED, nothing. Already tried rebooting PC, other USB port, other cable, waiting for an hour without connection to give the device a chance to reset.
My Babyface Pro stopped working after trying to update to the new 211/322 firmware. The tool said the backup was bad and I should update it. Which I did. Then Windows came up with the message "Last USB device not recognized" and since then the Babyface doesn't start at all. No LED, nothing. Already tried rebooting PC, other USB port, other cable, waiting for an hour without connection to give the device a chance to reset.
For a test I would set the Babyface into CC-mode, connect to the computer, then set back to normal-mode and reconnect.
Hopefully this gives the unit a bump to load the firmware...?
I tried the power supply that I use with my ADI 2 Pro, it has the same values as the NTCardbus-X I found at Thomann. 12V, 2A, polarity minus on the outside. Babyface doesn't react. I tried pressing SELECT + DIM while connecting power supply or USB, but it doesn't boot.
RME User Forum → FireWire & USB series → The official Babyface Pro Thread
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