You are not logged in. Please login or register.
RME User Forum → Vintage stuff → Fireface 800/400 and MacOS Tahoe
Any information on the compatibility of our beloved old Firefaces 800 and 400 with the upcoming new MacOS Tahoe could be gathered here.
(Though I'm afraid this could become a short thread at this moment there might still be hope)
We tried the just released Tahoe beta. Kernel Extension drivers still work. DriverKit anyway. CC has been updated and now uses a bit smaller Safety Offset buffers, so shows improved latency.
FireWire is a different topic: There is no FireWire category anymore in the System Report. When connecting the TB and FireWire dongle they show both under PCIe (aka TB). But Apple seems to have removed the FireWire driver from the OS, the former AppleFWOHCI driver is no longer there. So although it is possible to install our FireWire driver, connecting a FF800 or FF400 just won't do anything.
End of an era, it seems.
… the former AppleFWOHCI driver is no longer there …
Thanks for the quick info, Matthias. 
Additional question from a clueless person (me): Would it be possible to reinstall such a driver and reactivate that function?
It dawns on me, that at my old age I will have to buy a new interface soon.
... connecting a FF800 or FF400 just won't do anything...
End of an era, it seems.
It was predictable, but I'm very sorry!
It will be at least three months before macOS Tahoe comes out of the beta. And another month will pass before the 26.1 update comes out, which will solve the main bugs. So there is still a lot of time available. In the meantime I will start evaluating the switch from FF800 to another.
UCXII maybe?
MC wrote:... connecting a FF800 or FF400 just won't do anything...
End of an era, it seems.It was predictable, but I'm very sorry!
It will be at least three months before macOS Tahoe comes out of the beta. And another month will pass before the 26.1 update comes out, which will solve the main bugs. So there is still a lot of time available. In the meantime I will start evaluating the switch from FF800 to another.
UCXII maybe?
Maybe Apple will eventually put the Firewire functionality back in until then 
. But that would be the last straw.
In the moment for me there isn't really a need to change my perfectly working setup. I could probably live without further updates and upgrades forever as long as the Fireface 800 makes it.
The Fireface 800 does exactly what I need (and much more), so I would go for a Fireface 802 as an updated replacement. Or since I need less and lesser additional outboard gear I could probably strip down things and even a Babyface would do.
Good that we have some time to make further decisions.
...Or since I need less and lesser additional outboard gear I could probably strip down things and even a Babyface would do.
Good that we have some time to make further decisions.
It's true. This allows us to evaluate calmly and carefully before deciding what to do.
On the other hand when I want to have my peace and quiet from such problems I can sometimes be really quick with decisions.
Things that can be done subito will be done subito!
If only those devices weren't so expensive
...Things that can be done subito will be done subito!
I fully agree with you!
...If only those devices weren't so expensive
Yes! This is the real problem! 
@Apfel:
Just an idea (not tested) - but maybe worth to try:
Before upgrading to Tahoe:
- backup your /System/Library/Extensions/IOFireWireFamily.kext to a safe place
- Afaik, it should contain the AppleFWOHCI.kext (not 100% sure, if not try to find it in your system elsewhere...)
- So, make sure, you have the full AppleFWOHCI.kext backed up somewhere
After upgrading to Tahoe
- maybe it could be possible to place it in /Library/Extensions and register is as a "own" kext somehow, after updating?
- afaik, Tahoe still supports kexts at all.
- I mean, quite similar, how the OCLP guys do it... (of course, absolutely unofficial)
This file seems to not exist in my computer on Sequoia : AppleFWOHCI.kext
There is an Extensions folder with 707 kext files in it but non is AppleFWOHCI.kext
I would love to copy that file and test
AppleFWOHCI.kext should be inside the IOFireWireFamily.kext („folder“)…
I would love to copy that file and test
Just to avoid confusion: However - This will not be just a copy/paste thing. You will (again: not sure if it works) need to „install“ a kext manually.
Thanks for the idea.
I personally wouldn't do that in my case for two reasons:
- Normally I don't do experiments like that with operating systems
- The iMac M1 I'm using with the Fireface 800 is for DAW only and has no other purpose. There would be no disadvantage to stay on Sequoia 15.x and compatible Logic versions as long as the Fireface will be in use.
But anyone who would try that experiment with Tahoe, go ahead and report here. Maybe it works.
There would be no disadvantage to stay on Sequoia 15.x
Yes, thats what I thought, too.
Tahoe seems to be more or less a bling-bling UI redesign (which probably needs more resources for that).
Ok, beside that the CoreAudio driver uses smaller Safety Offset buffers....
Meanwhile more and more articles found on the internet confirm that Firewire support will be history with MacOS Tahoe.
I would not be surprised if the FF400 / 800 will still work then.
Ich glaub es erst wenn Apfel schreibt es ist aus.
Stay tuned!
We heard it from Apple directly when asking them (after our findings reported above) - FW gone is official, but I doubt any media outlet cares/knows, and Apple might stay silent on it. That said they could change their mind anytime to keep it working for one more OS version, but that would need some big public outcry. The few remaining FW users will not be enough for that to happen.
My 20 years old Fireface 800 is still a great and solid piece of equipment. That is the most important factor. I will gladly continue to use it with MacOS Sequoia then.
Is there/would there be an option to rebuild/modify a Fireface 800 into a Fireface 802?
This would cost more than buying a new 802FS
Is there/would there be an option to rebuild/modify a Fireface 800 into a Fireface 802?
How would that work? You have entirely different analog and digital boards, most likely a different FPGA, probably a different power supply, and you would also need a different case because different holes are needed to fit the potentiometers etc. through.
That would be a complete replacement of everything.
In other words, sell FF800 and get a used FF802.
This would cost more than buying a new 802FS
Yes, I was afraid that would be the answer, but thanks for the response and still... we have a UFX, two UCs and a DIGIFACE and it breaks my heart to let go of the 800 just because a software won't support it anymore, but probably that's the way it is... we could still use it over the ADAT I/O tho
How would that work?
yeah, right... there are still interfaces that have both usb and fw (like the UFX), so I was hoping for a magical solution
Hi,
is it possible to use the FF800 as an ADAT interface connecting to a supported usb interface like the UCX II ?
I mean:
MacOS <---usb---> UCX II (or other supported) <---adat---> FF800
If previously configured for standalone operation with another computer or OS that does have FireWire support, then yes.
Hi,
is it possible to use the FF800 as an ADAT interface connecting to a supported usb interface like the UCX II ?I mean:
MacOS <---usb---> UCX II (or other supported) <---adat---> FF800
Here how to do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goO2bxI … p;index=11
Aw man, sounds like it finally caught up with us if Tahoe is truly dumping all FW driver support. Ugh. It's sad b/c my particular setup (external PCIe card via TB chassis) had Fireware SO fast and stable, clean audio and no issues. I literally was able to avoid the entire era of Thunderbolt interfaces and stay w/ FireWire 800 all these years.
I guess I finally have to buy a new interface. It was eventually gonna happen.
Thanks for posting that video btw. I'm putting her in ADAT expansion mode now. Permanent. She'll live-on. Thank you, RME, for all you do. I think I'll front-end her with a new RME interface.
UPDATE: I am thinking about keeping my PCIE setup (currently Firewire 800 card) and just putting my FF800 into ADAT mode before Tahoe upgrade, and putting the HDSPE RayDAT card in -- boom, still get the i/o and not having to do much in the way of gear swappage.
We got by 4 years longer than we initially thought, that's 3 OS upgrades gone-by that we sustained it working. I don't think they AppleFWOHCI.kext copy stuff would work, but might try it. That's a long-shot b/c copying them isn't enough, have to register/sign them I think. Maybe one last experiment, but honestly I'm kind of looking forward to maybe trying the RME PCI card way -- lets me keep the i/o at least...
Meanwhile – Sequoia 15.7 still does the job with the Fireface as expected.
BTW, be careful not to unwillingly install Tahoe because compatible Macs of course offer that update on the top of the list. And deactivate any automatic updates from now on.
Or if possible, install it on a new partition and migrate, then you can boot both.
It occured to me that I might actually use the 800 in conjunction with a Babyface Pro FS...that's to say, use it as an ADAT connected with optical cable. Sound possible? It'd surely be better than the Behringer 8200 I'd been using.
Hi, as my Fireface 800 won't be compatible with Tahoe, I'm planning to buy a new RME Fireface 802 FS.
Can I use any USBC to USB printer cable or do I need a specific one ?
Thanks
Should work if it's of decent quality.
Has anyone here seen this March 2025 video's Firewire workaround demonstration and tried it in Tahoe with an RME FF400/800/UCX/UFX/etc?
In this video I show a brand new way to use FireWire devices with newer laptops using USB4 or Thunderbolt 3 and 4. This method uses a desktop PCIe card in an M.2 NVMe SSD enclosure/dock that passes the PCIe data directly to the processor, so its not affected by the legacy Thunderbolt 1 and 2 adapters no longer working on newer Intel processors. The process also works with Macs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8YYoUzCFk4
Although my RME units (UFX I, 802) can both use USB 2, I still capture or record stuff on audio/video with 8mm digital/analog camcorders, which require Firewire connection to digitally transfer/capture footage. I'm not updating to Tahoe just yet myself, but if this would work it seems well worth the trouble.
The video's creator briefly mentions in a subsequent video that he tried this (PCI/USB4) on Tahoe and it does not work. Too bad...
RME User Forum → Vintage stuff → Fireface 800/400 and MacOS Tahoe
Powered by PunBB, supported by Informer Technologies, Inc.