1 Topic by drifter7508 (edited by drifter7508 2025-12-14 18:05:08)

  • Registered: 2023-03-04
  • Posts: 34

Topic: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

I noticed today when I was working in Affinity Photo that every time I zoomed in on an image there were severe audio drop outs when listening to music (spotiy, vlc etc).
If I then turned off "Hardware acceleration" in the Affinity program the problem was gone.

Unfort. when opening a regular jpg image for preview with apples own system program the problem is back.
Closing an image down makes the 802FS hick up almost every time.

Any solution this? The endless struggle with drop outs has haunted me in different ways for over 20 years now. Sigh.
Also, no way this handles lower than 128 samples 48Khz in Ableton in a 100% reliable way. Never has with any Motu or RME cards for me... 20 years later. Still always the same issues.


MAC Studio M1 MAX
802 FS (Latest drivers + FW)
Sequoia 15.7.3

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2025-12-15 03:25:16)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 6,748

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

How can you think a computer for music studio (60 audio channels active) shall be able to handle image processing at the same time ?

The interface works fine when working in DAW only ? That's what it is made for.

Also recommended to connect the interface with USB cable to USB-C port at the Mac.
Then you also be allowed to upgrade the computer to MacOS-Tahoe.
Use USB-DK driver 427 (I don't know what is "latest drivers+FW")

M1-Tahoe, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 Reply by drifter7508 (edited by drifter7508 2025-12-15 07:50:27)

  • Registered: 2023-03-04
  • Posts: 34

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

waedi wrote:

How can you think a computer for music studio (60 audio channels active) shall be able to handle image processing at the same time ?

The interface works fine when working in DAW only ? That's what it is made for.

Also recommended to connect the interface with USB cable to USB-C port at the Mac.
Then you also be allowed to upgrade the computer to MacOS-Tahoe.
Use USB-DK driver 427 (I don't know what is "latest drivers+FW")


The basic task to play a simple wav file in VLC or in Spotify and open and close a 1mb jpg file at the same time should not be expected to work? Laughable conclusion? All other cards have handled this for over 20 years including my FF800 just 2 months ago.

I allready have a usb c cable of highest quality. Also as said latest drivers/fw.

Tahoe is not an option.

  • rAC
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2011-05-04
  • Posts: 93

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

@Waedi the 'Latest drivers + FW' is short hand for "I am to lazy to check and don't care".

5 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2025-12-15 08:39:02)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 6,748

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

drifter7508 wrote:
waedi wrote:

How can you think a computer for music studio (60 audio channels active) shall be able to handle image processing at the same time ?

The interface works fine when working in DAW only ? That's what it is made for.

Also recommended to connect the interface with USB cable to USB-C port at the Mac.
Then you also be allowed to upgrade the computer to MacOS-Tahoe.
Use USB-DK driver 427 (I don't know what is "latest drivers+FW")


The basic task to play a simple wav file in VLC or in Spotify and open and close a 1mb jpg file at the same time should not be expected to work? Laughable conclusion? All other cards have handled this for over 20 years including my FF800 just 2 months ago.

I allready have a usb c cable of highest quality. Also as said latest drivers/fw.

Tahoe is not an option.


no matter what you play the interface has 60 channels active and other aplications may induce an interruption forced by the user.

M1-Tahoe, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 10,706

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

It's simply not the audio interface that causes the interruptions, it's your computer. There's no way the interface can compensate for what is happening or change the way the graphics/image application is working. This isn't an issue of the 802.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2023-03-04
  • Posts: 34

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

rAC wrote:

@Waedi the 'Latest drivers + FW' is short hand for "I am to lazy to check and don't care".


Why insults? I said the latest drivers. I just bought the card.
For your satisfaction:
FW V227
Driver v4.27

Happy?

8 Reply by drifter7508 (edited by drifter7508 2025-12-15 09:56:59)

  • Registered: 2023-03-04
  • Posts: 34

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

RME Support wrote:

It's simply not the audio interface that causes the interruptions, it's your computer. There's no way the interface can compensate for what is happening or change the way the graphics/image application is working. This isn't an issue of the 802.


So it may be. My FF800 handled this with no issues for decades?
I guess the USB protocol is not as "stable" after all then...

So far it's only Apples own basic "image preview" program that is the issue. Apples Photo program works fine, zooming, closing images.
Affinity Photo is good after I turned off the hardware acceleration (Metal).

Im very pleased with the card except this issue.

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 10,706

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

Neither device "handles" any of this directly. If the audio playback from the computer gets interrupted, the interface can't compensate for that. It's also not really about "USB protocol", some M1 machines are known for USB issues, but also, you were likely using the FF800 with a completely different machine.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2023-03-04
  • Posts: 34

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

No, I was using my FF800 with this exact Mac Studio M1 Max until a month ago when I "upgraded" to the FF802FS.
But sure, there may be some USB issues with the M1 machines... nothing that I have heard of so far or crossed my path.

Very strange issue though... what makes the audio hick up when just closing down a simple 1mb jpg file... how can that be related to this USB audio interface. I mean the "internal sound card" does not.

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 973

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

drifter7508 wrote:

No, I was using my FF800 with this exact Mac Studio M1 Max until a month ago when I "upgraded" to the FF802FS.

Then, with the 800, you used the Apple Adapters, which finally appears as "firewire" in system information.

Possible, you connected the 802fs through some hubs/docks between the mac?
Possible, you connected the 802fs to the macs rear USB3/TB-C Ports?
Possible, some other devices use the other USB-C/TB Ports and share the same lane?
If so, avoid it.

However, what I can say:
I use the "old" ff802 connected directly from its USB2-B Port to my Mac Studio M1 Max's rear USB2/3-A Port.
Standard USB2 Cable.
Without any issues (even with 32 samples@48kHz in DAWs).

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

12 Reply by drifter7508 (edited by drifter7508 2025-12-17 08:11:49)

  • Registered: 2023-03-04
  • Posts: 34

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

maggie33 wrote:
drifter7508 wrote:

No, I was using my FF800 with this exact Mac Studio M1 Max until a month ago when I "upgraded" to the FF802FS.

Then, with the 800, you used the Apple Adapters, which finally appears as "firewire" in system information.

Possible, you connected the 802fs through some hubs/docks between the mac?
Possible, you connected the 802fs to the macs rear USB3/TB-C Ports?
Possible, some other devices use the other USB-C/TB Ports and share the same lane?
If so, avoid it.

However, what I can say:
I use the "old" ff802 connected directly from its USB2-B Port to my Mac Studio M1 Max's rear USB2/3-A Port.
Standard USB2 Cable.
Without any issues (even with 32 samples@48kHz in DAWs).

No docks ofcourse.
I'm using this cable to the back of my M1 Max:
https://www.thomann.se/udg_ultimate_usb … e_s15b.htm
So are you suggesting that connecting to the USB3/TB-C Ports is not recommended? If so why? Whats the difference?

Will try the included cable later today with the standard rear USB2/3-A Port. I will "eat my hat" if that makes a difference ;-)
Just tested: No difference at all.

Have you tested:
Play music in Spotify, open different jpg images with apples own preview program. Close the jpg.
As said, when Im closing the jpgs the sound hick ups almost all the time.
Sequoia 15.7.3.

I can only use 128 samples/ 48khz in ableton if I want 100% reliability.
99% of the times it works with 64. But im not risking it. I dunno if its old plugs/older project files or something that makes things hick up sometimes.

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 973

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

drifter7508 wrote:

If so why? Whats the difference?

The difference is:
1) Apple uses different hw/lanes for the ports. See: https://support.apple.com/en-ca/111900# … o%205Gb/s)
2) Apple uses different drivers for the corresponding ports: Check this yourself in System Information app in USB Panel.
You'll notice that the two A Ports, the other 4 C ports on back, and the two front ports use different types of drivers.

However, I dont know how Apple handles this, but this clearly indicates, that there are differences.

I mentioned this, because my personal experience was:
Although, I am on tahoe, since it was released. But I remember issues with sequoia, connecting my usb audio interface(s) to the  4th of the 4 TB/USB-C Ports (used 2 monitors and one for a dock and the 4th for ufx3 or ff802).
Since I connected my UFX3 and the ff802 to the 2 USB A Ports, I had no issues...



drifter7508 wrote:

Have you tested:
Play music in Spoity, open different jpg images with apples own preview program. Close the jpg.
As said, when Im closing the jpgs the sound hick ups almost all the time.
Sequoia 15.7.3.

I never ever had or heard about issues with closing images in the preview app. Sounds like sth is weird in your system?
But I read other people had problems while deleting/moving files to/from trash in finder (makes some kind of sense somehow, as - afaik, macOS switches the SR to 44kHz for this).
However, worth to try: Go to Apple > System Settings > Sound and see if turning off "Play user interface sound effects" helps.




drifter7508 wrote:

I can only use 128 samples/ 48khz in ableton if I want 100% reliability.
99% of the times it works with 64. But im not risking it. I dunno if its old plugs/older project files or something that makes things hick up sometimes.

I dont have Ableton installed here atm, but if you mix wavs/aifs/etc with different sample rates in combination with old (non-arm-native plugins) and in bigger projects, your experienced ableton issue makes sense...


So, for myself personally, it looks more like you have some kind of misconfiguration in your system, than a rme driver related issue.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

14 Reply by drifter7508 (edited by drifter7508 2025-12-17 11:24:41)

  • Registered: 2023-03-04
  • Posts: 34

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

Thanks for all the info.

I have never used systems sounds. Always turned off. Even with some logic behind it...default setting is 48khz in the apple OS. (Even though the wavs ,aifs may be in 44khz.)

Maybe some plugs that stops lower settings than 128. I def. cant use my main masteringplug Klevgrand Grand Finale on the main out with anything lower than 128. The CPU meter never goes over 50% at any time though.
This is a video with 32 samples/ 48khz … the plug kills it:

https://youtube.com/shorts/pjuLVVMO6Ak? … ev9cDCn7gk

I can live with 128... and see some reasons behind all that in Ableton.

But,  that I cant open a simple jpg file without random hick ups really bothers me and I find no logic behind it.

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 973

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

Maybe some plugs that stops lower settings than 128. I def. cant use my main masteringplug Klevgrand Grand Finale on the main out with anything lower than 128. The CPU meter never goes over 50% at any time though.
This is a video with 32 samples/ 48khz … the plug kills it:
https://youtube.com/shorts/pjuLVVMO6Ak? … ev9cDCn7gk
I can live with 128... and see some reasons behind all that in Ableton.

Your video shows it clearly: Its looks its a Settings issue in your Ableton Project or Ableton itself. Your video just shows the on/off result, but nothing regarding detailed settings, etc... There could be dozens of reasons.
PS: I downloaded the Trial of Klevgrand Grand Finale, just to see if its plugin related. Works perfectly here in a huge LogicPro Project...

But,  that I cant open a simple jpg file without random hick ups really bothers me and I find no logic behind it.

This is another issue, i dont think its related with your Ableton issue.
Again - I never heard of sth like that.
Maybe, a last guess - did you try create a fresh user on your mac to see if the "opening/closing jpegs in preview-issue" persists?

And again: I bet its sth related with your system - not with your 802fs or its  firmware/driver.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

16 Reply by drifter7508 (edited by drifter7508 2025-12-18 15:40:11)

  • Registered: 2023-03-04
  • Posts: 34

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

Thanks for your input :-)

There are no ”settings issues”.
Its a clean install with everything related.
The settings are explained many times.
32-128 samples, 48khz. (Only 128 samples works for me)
All input channels on the soundcard are activated in Ableton. 4 output channels are activated. There are not much more to it than that reg. settings in Ableton.

Logic works a bit different as far as I know reg. latency comp. and such. Many years since I used Logic.

It does not really matter if its the card/drivers or the system. Fact is, the problems are there and pretty much always been. I alway bought the ”top of the line Macs” for 20 years. Never been able to run 32/64 samples 100% reliable with any card. (Same with PC). Many colleagues have had the same experiences.

17 Reply by maggie33 (edited by maggie33 2025-12-19 04:40:44)

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 973

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

drifter7508 wrote:

There are no ”settings issues”.

There are! Shall we bet? How much? If so, be fair and stop reading here smile

drifter7508 wrote:

Its a clean install with everything related.

"Clean" with "everything related" raises more questions for me than it answers.
For example, a fresh install with a restore from a backup is never "clean"…
So you didnt invest the 5 minutes test with a new user? Spoiler: If you would, it would indicate the root cause of your misconfigured setting…

drifter7508 wrote:

The settings are explained many times. 32-128 samples, 48khz. (Only 128 samples works for me)

Yeah, got it already from your first post. No need to mention your buffer size/rate again.

drifter7508 wrote:

All input channels on the soundcard are activated in Ableton. 4 output channels are activated.

This is a new information. Surprise, surprise… wink

drifter7508 wrote:

There are not much more to it than that reg. settings in Ableton.

There are. And even much more settings, as you might think. Spoiler 2: And not only in Ableton…

drifter7508 wrote:

Logic works a bit different as far as I know reg. latency comp. and such. Many years since I used Logic.

SW based "automatic latency(or delay) compensation" (ADC) in DAWs basically follow the same laws/principles. Same for "reduced latency when monitoring" (RLM).

drifter7508 wrote:

It does not really matter if its the card/drivers or the system. Fact is, the problems are there and pretty much always been. I alway bought the ”top of the line Macs” for 20 years. Never been able to run 32/64 samples 100% reliable with any card. (Same with PC). Many colleagues have had the same experiences.

That is solely your subjective opinion. Moreover, it leads OT regarding the technical context of your original question.
My answer would probably upset you… Better let’s keep the focus on the solution.


—

Summing up the facts:
1) You have Record and Monitor (Auto) enabled for Track 9 (the TAL U-No-Lx-V2) SW instrument.
2) Your vid shows at 00:10 that the "Grand Finale" Plugin adds 1104 samples 24ms latency itself(!).
3) You have 30 HW Inputs enabled in Ableton.
4) Apples "Voice Isolation" adds additional Latency for your Inputs.
5) Unknown: Apples "Voice Isolation" on/off? Your Settings in Ableton regarding ADC, RLC, Hi Quality rendering and if you adjusted delay compensation manually. Same for RME USB app's safety offset setting.

-> So the following is just a "guess" from my point of view...


In short:
- I could reproduce exactly the characteristic sound/pitch issue by activating the "Grand Finale" in logic.

Quick solution:
- Disable Apples Mic Mode "Voice Isolation" by setting it to "Standard". Especially for Ableton!
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic … 0Standard:
- This will fix the heavy pitched sound fragments on activating the plugin.
- PS: This could be already achieved, if you would have spend the 5 minutes and tried it with the "fresh user" (by default Apples "Voice Isolation" is always turned off)…

More Explanation:
- So, 4) is the main reason why Ableton (and every DAW) gets totally out of sync, resulting in such heavy pitch glitches.
As this is a system related setting by MacOS, DAWs don’t know about this. Thus impossible to calculate their ADC and RLM values correctly.
However, I only noticed such heavy freak outs with "Grand Finale" here. Other Plugins, with around 1000 additional samples did not cause such a high impact here. Ask the manufacturer why this happens.
- Generally with 32 samples, you operate in an area, you should know some basics regarding limits to avoid clicks and possible factors which might cause them. Basically, it’s a calculated summary of physical hardware, drivers, system, DAW(and its plugins) settings, dependent of your current use case. 
Read chapter 38.2 regarding Latency and Safety buffer offset in your 802fs manual.
Ableton also provides very good informations what to keep in mind regarding its settings. here just a few basics:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic … 0glitches.
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic … sation-FAQ
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic … o-dropouts

Hope it helps, rest is up to you (as only you know your system and all settings).

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

18 Reply by drifter7508 (edited by drifter7508 2025-12-19 20:25:45)

  • Registered: 2023-03-04
  • Posts: 34

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

I'll be damned! I think you solved it! I have stresstested all for 20 minutes with it set to 64 samples.
(Thats good enough for me, 32 samples is pushing it with a heavy mastering plug on the master).
I tested to open jpg files running Spotify and even Ableton projects etc.... no hick ups. I even tested to turn on the Metal hw accel. in Affinity Photo and played Spotify and Ableton projects at the same time ... and it also works!
Thank you so much! Hope it stays this way! Ill report back...


Altough this setting have never been touched and always been set to default "standard"... I did as suggested in the Ableton help text:
"Please note: if Standard has already been set when you open Mic Mode, we would recommend changing the setting to Voice Isolation and then again to Standard just to make sure that the change is fully taken into account."
Thats all I did for now!


" Disable Apples Mic Mode "Voice Isolation" by setting it to "Standard". Especially for Ableton!
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic … 0Standard:
- This will fix the heavy pitched sound fragments on activating the plugin.
- PS: This could be already achieved, if you would have spend the 5 minutes and tried it with the "fresh user" (by default Apples "Voice Isolation" is always turned off)… "

19 Reply by maggie33 (edited by maggie33 2025-12-19 23:47:20)

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 973

Re: 802FS Audio drop outs when closing/zooming images in Sequoia

Nice you got it. Thx for feedback.

I'll be damned!

Yes. You're dammed. smile

Thats good enough for me, 32 samples is pushing it with a heavy mastering plug on the master

Dont understand exactly. You mean you have problems with 32 samples? It should be no problem at all...
If so, disable (unnecessary) recording of track 9. See 1) in my last post. Because, if ADC and RLM are enabled, it can lead to momentary high CPU loads (and clicks).
As described here: https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic … 0glitches.

However, as I said, the "Grand Finale" plugin seems to behave unusual regarding latency. Try with another Mastering plugin.
If the clicks only happen with Grand Finale, I would consider contact the manufacturer (if I would have paid for it)...
What I can definitely say: Even 32 Samples are no problem here.

Altough this setting have never been touched...

I often hear similar words when my dad misconfigures sth on his computer/router and starts "emergency-help-calls". Sorry, couldn't resist wink

---
Edit:
Worth to mention, that @RME Support already answered this in post #6.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard