1 Topic by Maestro2be (edited by Maestro2be 2025-12-21 18:25:12)

  • Registered: 2007-06-11
  • Posts: 20

Topic: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

Hello all,

I have a Multiface 2 connected to an RME M-32 DA via the ADAT OUT port.

My Multiface 2 is currently set to “internal” clock setting.

What is the best clock setting for this scenario?  Who should be the master etc.?  I only have one ADAT cable going into the M-32 since that’s all I have available ports for.  (I plan to upgrade to take advantage of the MADI port and all 32 channels in the future).

Do I need a BNC coaxial cable for this?  I have one right here with me if it’s needed or if it’s the best option.

That’s the first and foremost important question right now.

While this isn’t completely relevant this minute,  I also plan to add either an RME M-32 AD or a Pulse 16 MX with MADI in the near future.

After I add one of those devices via the ADAT IN in the Multiface 2, what would my word clock settings look like then and how would I wire it?  More BNC cables or through the ADAT cable?

Thank you!

Multiface 2, M-32, DA10, Bricasti M7
Win11, AMD 3970X, ATC Monitors
Studio One v7, Nuendo v14

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2025-12-21 20:17:32)

  • waedi
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Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

You will upgrade, that means you will replace the Multiface with a Madi-interface, something like UFX lll ?

Then you can connect all with optical Madi cable and sync one to the other, make the interface leader clock and all the rest follower.
No need for BNC cables.
At moment also the Adat cable is enough, let the M32 be follower.

Maestro2be wrote:

While this isn’t completely relevant this minute,  I also plan to add either an RME M-32 AD or a Pulse 16 MX with MADI in the near future.

After I add one of those devices via the ADAT IN in the Multiface 2

Makes no sense to add those devices to the adat port of a Multiface 2.
The Adat port has 8 channels only.
Already the first M32 is waste of analog ports as only 8 will work and the rest 24 sockets will be silent.

M1-Tahoe, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2025-12-21 20:47:17)

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Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

You can use any digital port for clock distribution (AES, SPDIF, ADAT, MADI). This is not worse compared to Word clock, so WC is not necessarily needed.

You can "chain" M-32 AD, M-32 DA and Pulse 16 MX on one MADI bus and propagate clock through MADI.

I recommend using MADI optical, because then you have (like with ADAT) galvanic isolation between the devices.

Currently, with the Multiface and ADAT (while you do not have MADI), you can clock synch as you like, depending on whether your Multiface should be clock master or the device connected through ADAT IN.

Step1: Current setup using only ADAT OUT and M-32 DA (8 channel)

Easiest is to use the Multiface as clock master, then you can distribute the clock via ADAT and do not need WC.
There is no quality difference whether using a digital port or WC for clock synchronization purposes.

Multiface[cm]
                \
                 \---ADAT OUT---------------->ADAT IN---M-32 DA[cs]


Step 2: utilize two ADAT ports of the Multiface

I can't judge which clock would be the best, pick the setup where you see most advantages for you.

     Option A: Without WC

Multiface[cs]---ADAT IN<----------------ADAT OUT---M-32-AD[cm]
                \
                 \---ADAT OUT---------------->ADAT IN---M-32 DA[cs]


     Option B: With WC

Multiface[cm]---ADAT IN<----------------ADAT OUT---M-32 AD[cs]------WC IN---+
                \                                                                                                   |
                 \---ADAT OUT---------------->ADAT IN---M-32 DA[cs]------WC OUT--+


Step 3: Later with MADI

RecordingInterfaceWithMADI[cm]
|         |
|         + M-32 AD [cs]
|         |
|         + M-32 DA[cs]
|         |
+--<--+

cm=clock master, cs=clock slave

More information about clock synchronization, see my blog, maybe you find some additional interesting information therein:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … ios-en-de/


@waedi: if you read his posting again, then he intends to upgrade later to a recording interface with MADI.
If I understood correctly he intends to perform the upgrade of his setup in three steps:
1. use only ADAT OUT of the multiface
2. use ADAT IN and OUT of the multiface
3. the final MADI based solution.

This will allow him to slowly expand the number of analog inputs and outputs by 8 ports and purchase the devices he will need later for the final expansion using MADI.

Recording interface with one MADI bus could be:
USB3 based: Fireface UFX III (best allrounder offering a lot of different I/O ports, Autoset, DURec, RoomEQ, Crossfeed)
USB2 based: MADIface USB (pure MADI, nothing else)

If more than one MADI buses are needed:
USB3: MADIface XT II
PCIe based: HDSPe MADI, HDSPe MADI FX

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent
  • Registered: 2007-06-11
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Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

@Ramses,

Thank you for such a great detailed response.  I went and also read your entire blog link and it really helped me understand it now.  Especially the examples.

You’re correct about your assumption of my upgrade process in 3 steps.  I was given an offer impossible to refuse on an RME M-32 DA and so I decided to go in reverse knowing exactly what converters I would end up with.  For me I think the easy choice is the UFX III as it basically has every possible scenario you could throw at it covered.  ADAT, MADI, MIDI, MIC PRE’s that seem to be very high quality and then I absolutely love the face it has 2 headphone outputs.

There just isn’t a better interface out there for my needs but my budget will dictate how soon I get it.  Also dependent on the budget I spend on my AD.  If I get a Pulse MX 16 with MADI I will be able to upgrade sooner than if I fork out the cash for an RME M-32 model AD.

So far the hardest thing for me to get on this clocking is the terminology with being master.  It’s almost impossible for my head to wrap around the fact that when I want my Multiface 2 or the UFX III later to be master, I actually choose internal and not master.  From everything you’ve given me that’s my take away unless I got it wrong.  It’s just strange to my mind that I don’t pick master in the driver.

Lastly, thanks again for your blog post because I do in fact have a clocking issue with my Multiface and the M-32 because just like your example of when it’s not properly in sync, it will say LOCK and not SYNC.  Well mine says LOCK so I need to go through this and apply what you’ve given me here.

Will report back how things go.

Thanks!

Multiface 2, M-32, DA10, Bricasti M7
Win11, AMD 3970X, ATC Monitors
Studio One v7, Nuendo v14
  • waedi
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Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

Maestro2be wrote:

I actually choose internal and not master.  From everything you’ve given me that’s my take away unless I got it wrong.  It’s just strange to my mind that I don’t pick master in the driver.

Notice : clock-mode internal = master
recently the wording has modernized and is now Leader and Follower

M1-Tahoe, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • ramses
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Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

Maestro2be wrote:

@Ramses,
Thank you for such a great detailed response.  I went and also read your entire blog link and it really helped me understand it now.  Especially the examples.

You're welcome.

Maestro2be wrote:

You’re correct about your assumption of my upgrade process in 3 steps.  I was given an offer impossible to refuse on an RME M-32 DA, and so I decided to go in reverse, knowing exactly what converters I would end up with.  For me, I think the easy choice is the UFX III, as it basically has every possible scenario you could throw at it covered.  ADAT, MADI, MIDI, MIC PRE’s that seem to be very high quality, and then I absolutely love the fact that it has 2 headphone outputs.

The UFX III is a good choice and gives you a solid foundation.

Regarding the M-32: are you aware of that you can't change reference levels on a per-port base?
A typical use case for the M-32 AD and DA converter is to perform conversion of an analog studio mixer, where you have the same reference level on each of the ports. In today's project studios, you connect different kinds of devices with different studio levels. There it is an advantage if you can change the reference levels for inputs and outputs on a per-port basis.

The ADI-8 QS was the same but had a digital input/output trim of up to 6 dB and per port.
Such a possibility I didn't find in the product manual for the M-32.

So you should think about whether it's possible for you to work with only 1 reference level on inputs and outputs
and please note, the M-32 D/A supports different reflevels on TRS and D-Sub and on TRS only two (+13 dBu, +19 dBu).

M32 AD: Line In 1-8, TRS/D-Sub
• Input sensitivity switchable +24 dBu, +19 dBu, +13 dBu @ 0 dBFS

M32 DA
Line Out, TRS
• Maximum output level: +21 dBu
• Output level switchable +13 dBu, +19 dBu @ 0 dBFS
Line Out, D-Sub
• Maximum output level: +27 dBu
• Output level switchable +13 dBu, +19 dBu, +24 dBu @ 0 dBFS

For more flexibility in that regard, you would need the newer products like the M-32 Pro II or M-1620 Pro.

Maestro2be wrote:

There just isn’t a better interface out there for my needs but my budget will dictate how soon I get it.  Also dependent on the budget I spend on my AD.  If I get a Pulse MX 16 with MADI I will be able to upgrade sooner than if I fork out the cash for an RME M-32 model AD.

Do not only look at the price; check the features that you need.
If you want to change ref levels on a per-port basis, then the M-32 converter might not be the best choice.

Maestro2be wrote:

So far the hardest thing for me to get on this clocking is the terminology with being master.

There is only one master in a setup. This device uses its internal clock, thus clock source = internal.
All the other devices (slaves) get the master clock through one of their digital inputs or word clock.

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2025-12-22 04:15:36)

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Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

waedi wrote:

recently the wording has modernized and is now Leader and Follower

AFAIK, in AVB and Dante environments, the terms "leader" and "follower" can appear because clocking is based on IEEE-1588 PTP (Precision Time Protocol), where such role descriptions are sometimes used at an implementation or abstraction level.

However, in professional audio practice and documentation, the established and technically precise terms remain "clock master" and "clock slave". See also RME manuals...

I would stick to the usual terms that everybody knows and that are being used in the documentation.

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent

8 Reply by Maestro2be (edited by Maestro2be 2025-12-22 23:34:08)

  • Registered: 2007-06-11
  • Posts: 20

Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

So, I spent some time today trying to get this all working and wasn't seeing the results I was expecting.  No matter what I did I could not get the Multiface 2 driver to tell me "sync" or "lock".  Absolutely nothing but 4 lines of "no lock".

I started to be concerned maybe my Multiface or M-32 was not working properly so I called support and here is what they told me.

"What you are seeing is exactly the expected behavior.  You are only sending an OUTPUT via ADAT to the M-32 and the Multiface 2 Driver can only show you INPUT clock status.  He told me that as long as my Multiface 2 is set to internal and my M-32 clock section is set to ADAT it's al done correctly.  As long as you don't hear audio distortion, pops and clicks and the light stops blinking and goes solid green then you are locked in.  M-32 is slave and the Multiface 2 is master in this scenario".

I asked about word clock through BNC and he stated the exact same thing you did @ramses that ADAT is superior to WC so stick with the ADAT even if it means not being able to see a sync check status.

I asked what to do when I add the second M-32 AD and he said "for now go through ADAT out on the M-32 to the Multiface 2 INPUT and set the M-32 to master and Multiface 2 slave.  This will then pass the entire word clock chain from the M-32 AD to the Multiface 2 and then through to the M-32DA and keep everything in sync via ADAT".

Lastly, he told me that if I get a new interface later to take advantage of the MADI, don't necessarily buy the UFXIII.  He said I will have so many inputs on the M-32 AD that I might not need all the ports on the UFX III since I have preamps etc. already covered.  Something like a USB MADI device would suffice he thought for me and save money.

Honestly, talking to him just confirmed everything @ramses said to me and even the part about not just buying that interface just because.  Do it only getting the features I need.  The only thing I don't remember noticing on your blog and our discussions (I am sorry if you did and I just missed it which is absolutely possible) is that I should not expect to see anything at all on the Multiface to provide me visual feedback that the clock is all in sync for the chain.  I just have to trust it is because the lights are green and locked, the M-32 changes with my every DAW and driver change and I hear no audio distortion or artifacts.

In regard to considering the need for changing per port input levels, that hadn't ever crossed my mind honestly.  I am just recently getting into actually recording analog instruments.  I used to be 100% in the DAW work and people were sending me already done and recorded stems.  I never did any of the recording.  So thank you for this because I would think that this might be an issue for me down the road because of the different types of preamps, line outs on instruments etc. all having a possibly different signal level could really cause me an issue.  It might, I don't know yet because I don't have enough experience yet to know but I really appreciate the heads up on that and I am going to add that to my considerations list when I purchase my AD unit.

Reading up on the Ferrofish Pulse 16 MX I see it can in fact adjust gain level per port and of course has MADI interface.  All for around 1,300$ which is a real good deal price wise as long as the converters are good enough to make me happy.

Thanks!

Multiface 2, M-32, DA10, Bricasti M7
Win11, AMD 3970X, ATC Monitors
Studio One v7, Nuendo v14

9 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2025-12-24 09:18:32)

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Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

Maestro2be wrote:

So, I spent some time today trying to get this all working and wasn't seeing the results I was expecting.  No matter what I did I could not get the Multiface 2 driver to tell me "sync" or "lock".  Absolutely nothing but 4 lines of "no lock".

With only a digital connection (ADAT) out to the M-32 DA, the Multiface can't detect the input status.

That would only be possible with
1. an ADAT connection back in, but this is not possible, as a pure DA converter, the M-32 DA has only ADAT inputs, no outputs.
2. MAD, as you would cable from the M-32 DA back to the recording interface, but with the Multiface you have no MADI.
3. Word Clock (WC). WC would be an option, but you could also leave it in this state with only one ADAT connection to the M-32 DA, as RME support already told you.

Maestro2be wrote:

I started to be concerned maybe my Multiface or M-32 was not working properly so I called support and here is what they told me.

"What you are seeing is exactly the expected behavior.  You are only sending an OUTPUT via ADAT to the M-32 and the Multiface 2 Driver can only show you INPUT clock status.  He told me that as long as my Multiface 2 is set to internal and my M-32 clock section is set to ADAT it's al done correctly.  As long as you don't hear audio distortion, pops and clicks and the light stops blinking and goes solid green then you are locked in.  M-32 is slave and the Multiface 2 is master in this scenario".

Exactly, and that saves you the WC cabling. Not that there's anything wrong with WC, but isn't it practical to be able to do without an extra cable if it's not absolutely necessary?

The transmission of clock information via digital lines is completely normal, and RME's SteadyClock mechanism for jitter reduction works via both, any digital lines (SPDIF, ADAT, AES, MADI) and Word Clock.

Word clock would only offer an advantage in your setup if you frequently switch between single and double speed, in terms of automatic detection of the sample rate at the clock slave to automatically follow the clock of the master.
But with one ADAT connection with only 8 channels, you're unlikely to want to work at double speed, which would further reduce the number of channels from 8 to 4. And double speed isn't absolutely necessary either.

Maestro2be wrote:

I asked about Word Clock through BNC and he stated the exact same thing you did @ramses that ADAT is superior to WC so stick with the ADAT even if it means not being able to see a sync check status.

I didn't say superior, I said "This is not worse compared to Word clock, so WC is not necessarily needed."
My understanding is, that it delivers the same quality.

Maestro2be wrote:

I asked what to do when I add the second M-32 AD and he said "for now go through ADAT out on the M-32 to the Multiface 2 INPUT and set the M-32 to master and Multiface 2 slave.  This will then pass the entire Word Clock chain from the M-32 AD to the Multiface 2 and then through to the M-32DA and keep everything in sync via ADAT".

Yes. Only one little correction regarding the term "Word Clock chain", this has nothing to do with Word Clock as you are not using it. M-32 AD is in this scenario clock master, the multiface is slave and gets the clock from the ADAT input.
Every device sends a clock signal out on all of its digital outputs. So the Multiface will send the clock signal (and audio data) out on ADAT OUT and the M-32 DA will receive the clock signal from the master through the multiface as slave from its ADAT input.

This I showed already in this drawing "Step 2 Option A - Without Word Clock"

Multiface[cs]---ADAT IN<----------------ADAT OUT---M-32-AD[cm]
                \
                 \---ADAT OUT---------------->ADAT IN---M-32 DA[cs]


Maestro2be wrote:

Lastly, he told me that if I get a new interface later to take advantage of the MADI, don't necessarily buy the UFXIII.  He said I will have so many inputs on the M-32 AD that I might not need all the ports on the UFX III since I have preamps etc. already covered.  Something like a USB MADI device would suffice he thought for me and save money.

It fully depends on what you need.

The "MADI budget solution" is to get MADIface USB for €839
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_madiface_usb.htm
https://rme-audio.de/de_madiface-usb.html
Very flexible, can be used with USB2.

The ideal USB3 solution is an UFX III, as it gives you every RME feature that you have on recording interfaces.
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_fireface_ufx_iii.htm €2398
https://rme-audio.de/de_fireface-ufx-3.html

You can take a look at my Excel comparison sheet, where I compare mainly USB-based interfaces:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35156

If you have a desktop PC, with a free PCIe socket, then the HDSPe MADI FX could be interesting as well.
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_hdspe_madi_fx.htm €1349
https://rme-audio.de/de_hdspe-madi-fx.html
This is the only PCIe card with a DSP chip built-in to offer FX.
Newer revisions of this card also support RoomEQ and Crossfeed.

Maestro2be wrote:

Honestly, talking to him just confirmed everything @ramses said to me and even the part about not just buying that interface just because.  Do it only getting the features I need.  The only thing I don't remember noticing on your blog and our discussions (I am sorry if you did and I just missed it which is absolutely possible) is that I should not expect to see anything at all on the Multiface to provide me visual feedback that the clock is all in sync for the chain.  I just have to trust it is because the lights are green and locked, the M-32 changes with my every DAW and driver change and I hear no audio distortion or artifacts.

As RME mentioned, you also have the status LED on the M-32 DA and if you hear no clicks and pops you are fine.
Multiface as clock master and M-32 DA as slave through ADAT is an "isi pisi" setup and work flawlessly.
If you want, you can also switch to WC, but you won't get better quality of clock sync by this.

Maestro2be wrote:

In regard to considering the need for changing per port input levels, that hadn't ever crossed my mind honestly.  I am just recently getting into actually recording analog instruments.  I used to be 100% in the DAW work and people were sending me already done and recorded stems.  I never did any of the recording.  So thank you for this because I would think that this might be an issue for me down the road because of the different types of preamps, line outs on instruments etc. all having a possibly different signal level could really cause me an issue.  It might, I don't know yet because I don't have enough experience yet to know but I really appreciate the heads up on that and I am going to add that to my considerations list when I purchase my AD unit.

How many analog inputs and outputs (and of what type) do you need currently, and what could come in the future?

The UFX III already gives you 4 Mic inputs of the quality of a 12Mic with up to 75 dB gain.
And it has 8 analog inputs and outputs (2 you will need for your active monitors).
The 4 Mic inputs can also be used as analog or instrument inputs.
On the inputs and outputs, you can change ref levels on a per port basis.
You have, e.g. SteadyClock FS, FX, RoomEQ, Crossfeed, DURec and Autoset as RME features.

This device has the AKM converters known from the reference converter ADI-2 Pro FS.
With this device as a basis, you also have the possibility to compare RME high-quality conversion with other devices.

More information about the "evolution" of RME flagship devices you can read here in my blog:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … x-and-ufx/

Here's my former setup based on the UFX III
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … iii-en-de/

Here is my current refined setup based on HDSPe MADI FX:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … tup-en-de/

Maestro2be wrote:

Reading up on the Ferrofish Pulse 16 MX, I see it can in fact adjust gain level per port and of course, has a MADI interface. All for around 1,300$ which is a real good deal price wise as long as the converters are good enough to make me happy.

I do not know your budget, but it sounded as if getting a MADI interface is already challenging and needs the purchase of used M-32 DA and AD. That is why you need to order in different steps. Unfortunately, these M-32 converters do not support ref level per port and also no trim gain like the ADI-8 QS. You confirmed already that you need to connect different types of analog devices. Therefore, the ability to change the ref level on a per-port basis would make sense.

The only RME converter that would fulfill your needs is most likely the M-1620 Pro, but this unit costs €2890 alone.
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_m_1620_pro.htm
As this unit uses DB-25 connectors, you would additionally have to invest in 4 patch bays, which increases the price of such a setup significantly.

If PCIe is an option you could also think about a non-MADI solution based on a RayDAT card with 4x ADAT I/O.
You have more port options, but then you are missing the big MADI feature that you can expand your environment on demand.

Options

ADAT based:
RayDAT (PCIe) + Pulse 16 MX:         €599 + €999 =         €1598
optional WC module:                                                         €109

MADI based:
MADIface USB (USB2)   + Pulse 16 MX:    €839 + €999 =  €1838
HDSPe MADI FX (PCIe)  + Pulse 16 MX:  €1349 + €999 =  €2348
Fireface UFX III (USB3) + Pulse 16 MX:  €2398 + €999 =  €3397

optional gear:
ARC USB https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_arc_usb.htm     €144

Multiface and M-32 DA you can sell to cross finance the new (better) solution

Intermediate solution:
Getting UFX III and using Multiface via ADAT as additional converter: €2398
   
   +---USB2---ARC USB (optional)
  /
PC----HDSPe PCIe-----------------------------------------+
|                                                                              |
| USB3                                                                     |
|                                                                              |
UFX III [cm]---ADAT1 OUT--------------->ADAT IN---Multiface II [cs]---8x Analog I/O
  \             \---ADAT IN<-----------------ADAT OUT---/
   \
    +----Analog 1+2 OUT, 2x Phones: for monitoring
    +------8x Analog IN/6x Analog OUT for connecting further analog devices, ...
    +------AES, ADAT2, 2x MIDI, 4x Mic/Inst input, WC, ...

In the DAW/application load the MADIface driver for the UFX III.

EDIT: Keep the Multiface Driver installed and the Multiface connected to be able to manage the Multiface II and its routing between ADAT and analog ports.

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent
  • Registered: 2007-06-11
  • Posts: 20

Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

Wow, what an unbelievable amount of great information again lol.  I am definitely loving being able to just keep this simple as possible.  If I don't need the cable, then that's less for me to troubleshoot later or to go bad at some point.

The M-32 for me seems like it's going to be a great fit for my needs, at least right now.  My entire intent for it is to finish my studio with a 9.1.6 Atmos configuration for making game and movie tracks.  All 16 speakers will be identical vendor and specifications so I think it will fulfill my needs for a long time.  Output doesn't seem to be as much of an issue in my usage as input after hearing your explanation.  I just don't think I will want to live with one that doesn't have those additional adjustment controls because I will never know what instruments I will be recording.  I could record a piano, then a guitar and voice, and then the next day be creating an instrument by putting a microphone around a paint cylinder and recording sounds coming from within it to make an atmosphere.  So much variance in those applications and it's not even 10% of what has already crossed my mind that I will be doing as time goes on.

Additionally, I am starting to get requests for multichannel music but so far nothing more than 7.1.  However, I am going to offer my services of telling them I can do a full Atmos mix for just a little bit more and place everything on their bed of choice (5.1 or 7.1).  That way it will meet their requirements and process on anything they use to decode it, but it will also be ready for an Atmos environment should their music ever go through an Atmos system.  For now, it's really about mastering tracking in Amos, and having them help fund me by giving them a massive discount to master that skill.  I won't always be that cheap but until I am more masterful at doing it i can either force myself on off time to practice, or just basically give my clients at a bargain an Atmos mix and at least receive some level of payback.  Plus, for me, nothing helps me achieve a goal better than having a "deadline".

You got me thinking about something.  You mentioned potentially using my Multiface even after the purchase of an interface.  That got me thinking.  I really do not need a huge number of inputs at this point.  I just need more than the Multiface offers.  If I had the UFX III and then ran that with USB3, then kept my PCIe Multiface and ran them together I would have more than enough inputs.  I know my Multiface cannot change its levels on a per port basis but I don't necessarily need all of them to do that.  For instance, My Bricasti M7 and other hardware gear once installed wouldn't need to change.  It would be all the instruments and things I record that would and I could manage that with the inputs on the UFX III.  If what I am saying here is correct and possible (I think I read you say it can just be sure to match latency settings and ensure it's configured correctly with clocks etc.) then I think I can potentially be happy with that setup for a while.  Or is my only option running the Multiface 2 in Disconnect mode?  Your diagram above seems to suggest disconnect mode to me because you diagram using ADAT connection to the UFX III.

Regardless, the absolute worst case would be I don't like or am not satisfied with that setup.  If so, I can just sell the Multiface and use those funds to finish the Pulse 16 MX like you said.  I know this sort of goes off track from my original plan and thought, but I think it's a viable and possible working solution for me that will result in a lower budget and move me into the MADI for my M-32 outputs and give me ADAT to my Lavry monitoring DAC and headphone controller, as well as a nice set of additional and usable inputs and outputs from the Multiface 2.  I have been using a Multiface for over 20 years now and they have never let me down.  I hate to get rid of such a stable piece of gear if it's still usable and its sound quality is good enough for my work.  Having the UFX III right beside it will allow me to compare the sound differences with such an upgrade in reference that the UFX III will bring.  If I needed another pair of inputs, I could steal the Bricasti M7 inputs and outputs from the Multiface and just go AES into the UFX III so I gain from that as well.  It just gives me so many options using some of what I already invested in.

Unless I am missing something, does what I am saying here actually real world work and sound like a good direction?  It feels like it to me as long as they all will play nicely together at least long enough for me to test, compare and make a final decision.  The only niggle would be if I have to run the Multiface 2 in disconnect mode, that would be a test and see because if it loses its settings every time it powers done it might get annoying.  But then again, it might not since the PCIe card would still be installed in the PC for quickly getting it back up and running and I already own 2 of the required power bricks to power it.

Lastly, right now I am using my iPad with Totalmix Remote and I absolutely love it.  I guess I would have to audition the ARC USB to see if it's something that provides me with something additional that I actually would need.  I operate pretty good right now how it is and I can walk around the whole studio controlling everything.

Thanks again!

Multiface 2, M-32, DA10, Bricasti M7
Win11, AMD 3970X, ATC Monitors
Studio One v7, Nuendo v14

11 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2025-12-24 11:10:15)

  • ramses
  • ramses
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Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

Maestro2be wrote:

[...]The M-32 for me seems like it's going to be a great fit for my needs, at least right now.  My entire intent for it is to finish my studio with a 9.1.6 Atmos configuration for making game and movie tracks.  All 16 speakers will be identical vendor and specifications so I think it will fulfill my needs for a long time.

In this case I would prefer to feed all speakers from the same source/unit.
Then you could think about keeping the M-32 DA and adding it to your MADI setup.

You can also keep the Multiface II connected to the PC in parallel for operational reasons and via ADAT to the UFX III for audio,
but you need to look at whether the PC is capable of handling UFX III and Multiface II.

Regarding USB3: usually USB3 ports from the chipset should work best. Avoid USB3 ports with ASMedia USB3 controllers.
See the UFX III manual, ch. 40.3, regarding USB Audio and compatible USB 3 controllers.
https://rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ufx3_d.pdf
https://rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ufx3_e.pdf

If you should have USB issues its worth to think about isolating the UFX III behind a dedicated USB3 card.
We made good experiences using a Sonnet USB3 PCIe card using FL1100 chipset, which is working well according RME.

   +---USB2---ARC USB (optional)
  /
PC----HDSPe PCIe-------------------------------------------+
|                                                                                 |
| USB3        +--AES OUT--------->AES IN---Lavry[cs]      |
|               /                                                                 |
UFX III [cm]---ADAT1 OUT--------------->ADAT IN---Multiface II [cs]---8x Analog I/O
|         |     \---ADAT IN<-----------------ADAT OUT---/
|         |
|         + M-32 DA[cs]
|         |
+--<--+
MADI (OM4 or OM3)

Maestro2be wrote:

Output doesn't seem to be as much of an issue in my usage as input after hearing your explanation.

When connecting speakers you do not want too high volume.
But you can also use switchable attenuators to lower the volume which are according to RME neutral to the sound.
See this thread of solving level mismatches.
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

Maestro2be wrote:

[...]Or is my only option running the Multiface 2 in Disconnect mode?  Your diagram above seems to suggest disconnect mode to me because you diagram using ADAT connection to the UFX III.

In my diagram the Multiface II is fully connected through (I assume) a RME PCI or PCIe card.

Maestro2be wrote:

Having the UFX III right beside it will allow me to compare the sound differences with such an upgrade in reference that the UFX III will bring.  If I needed another pair of inputs, I could steal the Bricasti M7 inputs and outputs from the Multiface and just go AES into the UFX III so I gain from that as well.  It just gives me so many options using some of what I already invested in.

Yes, the best thing is to compare what you have against newer electronics/converters, and the UFX III gives you a lot of quality, features, and options.

Maestro2be wrote:

The only niggle would be if I have to run the Multiface 2 in disconnect mode, that would be a test and see because if it loses its settings every time it powers done it might get annoying.

As mentioned above, I never said to run Multiface 2 in disconnect mode.

What PC do you have? Optimized for audio tasks? How are the DPC latencies?

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent
  • Registered: 2007-06-11
  • Posts: 20

Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

Hi @Ramses,

My PC is a dedicated Audio Workstation.  32 cores, 256GB RAM, 17 NVME SSD drives, running all enterprise Samsung drives.  I am running my Multiface 2 via the PCIe card.  Also have a high powered gaming video card to run all the video processing.  I haven't ever tested my latency with DPC I should do that.  I can however run my computer at 64 samples and never get a pop or click.  I usually just set it to 256 though and can run hundreds or even a thousand track template in Studio One.

It won't be hard to understand once I have it up and running, I just didn't realize that I could run both interfaces.  I have always known about being able to run it in disconnect mode, but have never had more than one card in my machine ever.  I thought I read that because the Multiface and the UFX III run different drivers they arern't compatible, but perhaps that has a different meaning from what you're expressing I will be able to do with it.

In your mind, how would I actively be able to use the Multiface via your setup?  I realize the ADAT you said to pipe to the UFX III but I gues I mean, will I have access to its MIDI ports, it's analog inputs and outputs via total mix?  Jiust trying to understand how it will appear to me visually and functionally once I have this setup.

I am currently talking to my salesman and getting updated prices to take the next step in this process.  I have no more PCIe slots available to me so I will be going USB unless I remove the Multiface for say an internal HDSPe MADI FX PCIe upgrade.  I am really leaning at this point towards the UFX III.  I can run my Mackie mixing console into it, my Bose stage gear into it, synths into it, my 2 mic pre's, MADI out to the M-32, ADAT to the multiface 2, dual headphones which I actually need and an additional out to my Lavry monitoring DAC.  So this just sounds like a really great upgrade to last for a really long time.  Over 20 years on the Multiface.  I can see myself doing the same again on the UFX.  I am not concerned with USB going away anytime soon.

In terms of USB, I will use the onboard USB3 first and go from there.  Not having anotherr available PCIe port open will mean  I will have to sacrifice something for a USB3 card.  I am going on the positive side and going to say it's going to work great on my internal USB3 ports.  Because if it doesn't, I will have to sacrifice internal sample and audio drive space and I don't want to cross that bridge mentally yet smile.

I think I will do a latency test tomorrow.  Today's my birthday so time to go celebrate.

Best,

Christopher

Multiface 2, M-32, DA10, Bricasti M7
Win11, AMD 3970X, ATC Monitors
Studio One v7, Nuendo v14
  • ramses
  • ramses
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Re: Proper wordclock Multiface 2 to M-32 DA

Maestro2be wrote:

Hi @Ramses,
My PC is a dedicated Audio Workstation.  32 cores, 256GB RAM, 17 NVME SSD drives, running all enterprise Samsung drives.  I am running my Multiface 2 via the PCIe card.  Also have a high powered gaming video card to run all the video processing.  I haven't ever tested my latency with DPC I should do that.  I can however run my computer at 64 samples and never get a pop or click.  I usually just set it to 256 though and can run hundreds or even a thousand track template in Studio One.

Sounds promising. Nevertheless, it can't hurt to know LatencyMon results. It creates a typical DAW load and reports whether driver or background processes block CPU cores for audio too long. So measure it on an IDLE system, no DAW or application running, best after starting your computer and waiting for ~3 minutes until all services are started and the CPU load goes down.

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Use the default settings (Tools->Options) to measure interrupt-to-user process latency for approx 5-10 minutes.

My LatencyMon results you can find here as a screenshot in this article.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … lts-en-de/

During the execution, I am always watching the values for the current measured "interrupt to process latency" as the tool won't produce a graph and shows you only a mix of current and peak values. Only this way you get information about the best and average values. If this value exceeds 1 ms (1000 μs), then the system is not well suited for DAW processing. The lower, the better. Or in other words, the higher this number, the higher the ASIO buffer size needs to be chosen to compensate for the system being unable to process audio fast enough and in time to prevent pops and clicks.

Maestro2be wrote:

It won't be hard to understand once I have it up and running, I just didn't realize that I could run both interfaces.  I have always known about being able to run it in disconnect mode, but have never had more than one card in my machine ever.  I thought I read that because the Multiface and the UFX III run different drivers they arern't compatible, but perhaps that has a different meaning from what you're expressing I will be able to do with it.

Yes, you have to install the MADIface driver additionally for the UFX III as your main interface.
Audio from/to Multiface goes over the ASIO connection between UFX III and Multiface II.
You keep the Multiface II connected and the HDSPe driver installed to be able to operate the card in terms of driver settings and routing. You can configure the routing on the Multiface II through one TM FX instance by selecting the interface in the upper right corner, or alternatively, you can open a new additional TM FX window, so that you have one TM FX window for UFX III and another one for the Multiface II. If you save the workspace, the channel settings/routing and window sizes and positions of both TM FX instances will be properly saved.

Maestro2be wrote:

In your mind, how would I actively be able to use the Multiface via your setup?  I realize the ADAT you said to pipe to the UFX III but I gues I mean, will I have access to its MIDI ports, it's analog inputs and outputs via total mix?  Jiust trying to understand how it will appear to me visually and functionally once I have this setup.

As you can load only one ASIO driver into the DAW, you can only make use of the two MIDI I/O ports of the UFX III.
On the UFX III you have 2x MIDI IN and OUT; this should be sufficient.

If you have another application running in parallel, that only needs MIDI, you can try to load the HDSPe driver to utilize the MIDI ports of the Multiface II in parallel. First, I would use only the MIDI ports of the UFX III to make the setup not too complicated.

Maestro2be wrote:

I am currently talking to my salesman and getting updated prices to take the next step in this process.  I have no more PCIe slots available to me, so I will be going USB unless I remove the Multiface for say an internal HDSPe MADI FX PCIe upgrade.  I am really leaning at this point towards the UFX III.

Usually the USB 3 ports from the chipset will work fine. Except if you have connected many different devices to USB 3 already.
In one of my setups with two UFX+, I got issues after adding more and more USB devices and finally a USB Bluetooth adapter.
Then I had to separate the UFX+ behind a dedicated card.

Currently I run HDSPe MADI FX (PCIe) and UFX+ (USB3) without an additional USB3 PCIe card in the same system from 2014, and it works fine.

Maestro2be wrote:

I can run my Mackie mixing console into it, my Bose stage gear into it, synths into it, my 2 mic pre's, MADI out to the M-32, ADAT to the multiface 2, dual headphones which I actually need and an additional out to my Lavry monitoring DAC.  So this just sounds like a really great upgrade to last for a really long time.  Over 20 years on the Multiface.  I can see myself doing the same again on the UFX.  I am not concerned with USB going away anytime soon.

Yes, USB became a de facto standard and worked for me reliably for many years. FireWire was not any better.

Maestro2be wrote:

In terms of USB, I will use the onboard USB3 first and go from there.  Not having anotherr available PCIe port open will mean  I will have to sacrifice something for a USB3 card.  I am going on the positive side and going to say it's going to work great on my internal USB3 ports.  Because if it doesn't, I will have to sacrifice internal sample and audio drive space and I don't want to cross that bridge mentally yet smile.

You will have to try; every system is a little bit different. The worst case would be having to take out the PCIe card for the Multiface and having to buy the Pulse 16 MX just right now.

Maestro2be wrote:

I think I will do a latency test tomorrow.  Today's my birthday so time to go celebrate.
Best,
Christopher

Happy birthday, Christopher. :-)

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent