• Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Topic: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

I just wanted to share a solution I for my HDSP MADI card with 2 SSL Alpha Link Live-R converters.

My previous configuration was the MADI card with an SSL Alpha Link AX (ADAT) and using some older ADAT > Analogue cards was able to take advantage or more in/outs.

I had purchased a Alpha Link Live-R in hopes of using it with the AX and MADI through for more in/outs...
but alas I quickly realized it does not work that way...

The SSL AX developed a clocking issue...(I will try to change the crystals at some point to see if that helps) so I recently picked up a 2nd Live-R and figured I could run AES in/out from Live-R #1 to #2 and get 48 i/o and use some outs for custom HP mixes from Total Mix.

Well I finally got around to getting things hooked up, aaaaaannd... the RME DSP was not "SYNC'ing"...only "LOCK". After changing MADI cables, clocking via different methods, different Live-R's....it would not sync once ProTools or Mixbuss started up.... very frustrating.

On a whim, I figured maybe both Live-R's needed to run in a loop (similar to Digico consoles), I connected the RME HSDP out to Input on Live-R #1, then a single MADI cable from Out #1 to Input on unit 2, and Out on unit #2 back to RME HDSP....

Now SYNC when PT is running!!

I guess this is a clocking glitch between the units...

Hope this helps anyone with multiple MADI units.

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2026-08-25 00:47:19)

  • ramses
  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 15,880

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

The typical MADI chaining.

IN---HDSPe MADI---OUT------>IN---Device#1---OUT------>IN---Device#2---OUT
|                                                                                                               |
|                                                                                                               |
+---------------------------------------<--------------------------------------------+

HDSPe MADI is clock master and the slaves read the clock from their MADI input.
Should work with two or more devices or device #1 or #2 only.

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent
  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Well that was short lived....

With the loop in place it sync'd, but I had no sound input on any of the 48 channels on SSL Live #1... A to D on SSL #2 works, but no sound going into RME MADI...
Until I set MADI to MADI i/o on SSL #2.

But then...if clock master is RME (via WC or MADI) SSL #1 spikes, but RME says "Sync".

If I clock with SSL #1 as Master and slave SSL #2 and SLAVE RME, it locks and works.

Driver is 4.62, Firmware is 4.07 (the new firmware does not see my card...)

I am tempted to upgrade to a MADI FX card, but I wonder if it will solve my issue?

The card itself sync's with loop back test and ProTools running.

This issue also happens with Harrison Mixbus.

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 11,142

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

I suspect something's amiss with how the converters handle and forward MADI signal and clock between each other and to the outside world. Please test a loop with each converter individually and go from there.

If the physical loopback with only the card connected to itself works, then the external connection is not as it should be somehow.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Thanks Daniel.

I've also wrote to SSL and requested a Firmware update (.exe file) for the Live-R.
This model can be done via USB connector at back. I seem to have 2 different firmware.

I also wonder if the timing crystals are getting old.

I did change the 25Mhz crystal in my RME card a few years back during previous issues with SSL Alpha AX (MADI-ADAT version)

The new ones I have are MADI-AES.

I love the Total Mix. It's amazing, and I don't want to live without this setup. 32 channels to track, 8 stereo HP mixes from every single input and playback.

RME is just amazing.

I will upgrade to the HSDPe FX if my card is at fault. It's very old now and doesn't owe me anything. But I don't want to change card until I'm sure the SSL are fine.

The loopback with HSDP works fine.

Mario

6 Reply by Mario @ Vortex (edited by Mario @ Vortex 2026-08-26 01:00:06)

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Hello again Daniel

I looped the RME in playback set to Internal and Sync is fine.
Monitor via Headphone out sound is good.

But if I loop in Clock Source "MADI In" the Sample Rate defaults to 32000 Hz.
And sound via Headphone Output is out of Sync (playback is slow)

Then I tested each SSL separately (2nd unit powered off).
Using Harrison Mixbus just to be sure it's not a ProTools issue.

Unit # 1. Sync at first using RME Internal clock, then after about 1 minute has dropout and starts loosing Sync, occasionally flashing to Lock and No Lock, but stays longer in Sync, then glitches again, No Lock, good for 1min and so forth.

Unit # 2. Same problem, but much faster to loose Sync. This one is about was about 5 secs, then every second jumping between Sync, Lock and No Lock with digital glitches.

Using SSL and Master and RME as Slave, it only Sync's for a second then stays in Lock.

Sound ok. Hard to tell if there's Jitter...

So on both SSL units, with RME set Internal and SSL as Extenal (Via MADI or WC) it jumps between Sync, Lock, No Lock and Spikes (digital glitch).

With SSL set to Internal, 2nd SSL as Slave, and RME Slave it only Locks.

I used 2 different MADI cables as well between each SSL and RME just to be sure.
I've been switching between these cables as well. Each is abt 10 Meters.
My short loop cable is 1 M.

Edit - P.S. And to add to above, with DAW off RME shows Sync.

Mario

Edit #2 - P.P.S Reaper DAW same, however Sync at start, then went into Lock.

And over the course I've tried MADI 56 and 64 channels, 48K and 96K frame... even changed buffer size in case.

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 11,142

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Mario @ Vortex wrote:

But if I loop in Clock Source "MADI In" the Sample Rate defaults to 32000 Hz.
And sound via Headphone Output is out of Sync (playback is slow).

That's normal because you created a clock loop, card tries to sync to itself. But not relevant.


Then I tested each SSL separately (2nd unit powered off).
Using Harrison Mixbus just to be sure it's not a ProTools issue.

Just powered off or physically out of the loop?

Unit # 1. Sync at first using RME Internal clock, then after about 1 minute has dropout and starts loosing Sync, occasionally flashing to Lock and No Lock, but stays longer in Sync, then glitches again, No Lock, good for 1min and so forth.

Is that converter correctly set to sync to incoming MADI?
What if the converter is master and the card set to external sync?

Unit # 2. Same problem, but much faster to loose Sync. This one is about was about 5 secs, then every second jumping between Sync, Lock and No Lock with digital glitches.

Using SSL and Master and RME as Slave, it only Sync's for a second then stays in Lock.

That's odd. Is this with a ring connection? What if you only connect from the converter to the card?


So on both SSL units, with RME set Internal and SSL as Extenal (Via MADI or WC) it jumps between Sync, Lock, No Lock and Spikes (digital glitch).

With SSL set to Internal, 2nd SSL as Slave, and RME Slave it only Locks.

Some screenshots of the settings dialog would be helpful.

I used 2 different MADI cables as well between each SSL and RME just to be sure.
I've been switching between these cables as well. Each is abt 10 Meters.
My short loop cable is 1 M.

Test the loop with the long cable and the connection from the converter with the short one as well.

When you connect both converters, is this one single ring or are they connected individually?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

RME Support wrote:

Just powered off or physically out of the loop?

OUT of the loop and powered off.

Is that converter correctly set to sync to incoming MADI?
What if the converter is master and the card set to external sync?

Yes, via Menu you can set to MADI or WC.


That's odd. Is this with a ring connection? What if you only connect from the converter to the card?

No it was each SSL connected directly to RME.



Some screenshots of the settings dialog would be helpful.

I will post some tomorrow.


Test the loop with the long cable and the connection from the converter with the short one as well.

When you connect both converters, is this one single ring or are they connected individually?

Initially, I used only 1 MADI in/out to the 1st converter, and the 2nd is connected via AES to the first. I get a total of 48 Channels.

Sound was working from 2nd SSL into the first.

Then I noticed the Sync / Lock issue. So I split the MADI cable, and used a short cable from 1st OUT to 2nd IN and 2nd OUT returns to RME.

Initially it Sync'd fine with following setting on 2nd SSL

AES > ANAOGUE
ANALOGUE > AES

BUT, to get Sound INTO the first (ALL Channels) I had to set the 2nd SSL for

AES > ANAOGUE
ANALOGUE > AES
MADI > MADI

Once I get MADI > MADI on, there is sound in, but then only Lock and issue starts.

I'm at a whit's end...

I might be better off making a short vid to explain this.

9 Reply by Mario @ Vortex (edited by Mario @ Vortex 2026-08-28 01:38:51)

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Here is the latest scenario:

(FYG - SSL 1 is running AES+ANALOGUE to MADI Conversion, and return AES to MADI and ANALOGUE to MADI
SSL # 2 is taking AES i/o from SSL 1 and converting to ANALOGUE - it's not supposed to do anything on the MADI side - However, once IN THE LOOP, I need to set it to MADI to MADI as well to get sound INTO RME)

So setup is:

Full MADI Loop - RME > In SSL 1 Out to > In SSL 2 Out to > RME

---

Test 1

RME - Clock Internal
tried 64 and 56 ch

SSL - Clock - Ext - Set to clock on MADI Input stream

Does NOT Lock - No Lock - Lock - Sync ... continuous change

Now, if I Un-assign on SSL 2 - MADI to MADI it Sync's!! - But NO SOUND INTO the RME from either SSL...

BUT PLAYBACK will work without pops or clicks.

---

Test 2

RME - Clock Internal
tried 64 and 56 ch

SSL set to EXT - WORD CLOCK In from RME to both SSL's

Initially works and Sync, then after 2 min it pops - inputs 1 to 24 flash green on Total Mix

----

Test 3

Same as Test 2, but now using a T BNC connector on SSL 1.

Same pop after a min or so.

----

Test 4

Un-assign MADI to MADI on SSL 2 and steady lock... But no input sound
----

I also want to mention, that me Word Clock INPUT on RME no longer works. It's been a few years.


++++

I wonder if the different Firmware are at odds with each other on the SSL's...

10 Reply by Mario @ Vortex (edited by Mario @ Vortex 2026-08-28 15:30:26)

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Same problem at 44.1kHz sample rate....

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

I'm narrowing this down to an SSL Firmware problem.

1st SSL Alpha Live-R works fine if it's only connected to to RME (Single Loop) and 2nd SSL turned off.

If I turn 2nd SSL on and clock it via WC or AES, no MADI loop, the RME looses Sync.

Hopefully SSL send me the Firmware update soon.

I really love the Total Mix's capabilities, Having 32 i/o to PT and creating 8 stereo mixes on top of that is amazing.

Anyway, at least I can work for now with 24 i/o.

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Update:

SSL sent me a firmware update for my earlier unit. It made a huge difference.

With everything set to 56ch (RME and SSL)...

It now Sync's, (with or without MADI Loop) when Clocked via RME Internal,
SSL's set to External Word Clock and even with AES on 2nd unit.

***BUT - Random Jitter spikes or dropout when recording with 2 units powered on. Any quantity of tracks varying from 1 to 32, even if adding MADI loop...

DOES NOT Sync when; RME set Internal and SSL set to clock via MADI Clock (internal SSL Menu)

DOES NOT Sync when; RME clock External via MADI and SSL set Internal.

If only 1 unit is powered on, then recording and playback is perfect.

My PCI Card is old, and the WORD CLOCK INPUT no longer works, it does not see any WC coming in. Perhaps it is at the end of it's life?

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 11,142

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

What kind of mainboard are you using?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Hello Daniel,

It's an HP Z820 Server with dual Xeon Processors and 32 GB ram.

M

  • ramses
  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 15,880

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Mario @ Vortex wrote:

Hello Daniel,

It's an HP Z820 Server with dual Xeon Processors and 32 GB ram.

M

What CPU? Dual Xeon?

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent

16 Reply by Mario @ Vortex (edited by Mario @ Vortex 2026-09-02 22:24:56)

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Yes Dual Xeon


Processor    Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2650 0 @ 2.00GHz   2.00 GHz  (2 processors)
Installed RAM    56.0 GB
Storage    7.28 TB HDD
Graphics Card    NVIDIA Quadro 2000 (866 MB)
System Type    64-bit operating system, x64-based processor

17 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2026-09-02 23:19:02)

  • ramses
  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 15,880

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

It has a quite low single-thread performance.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cp … cpuCount=2

But it should at least sync.

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent
  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

1 SSL converter works fine.
Add a second SSL via AES to the first and problem starts.

EVEN when in standby mode (not recording)

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 11,142

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

I'd like to know more about the mainboard as such, question being whether this still has native PCI. Otherwise, performance may be limited with many channels.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Daniel, what do you mean Native PCI?

It does have a real PCI slot in the motherboard. No adapter.

I'm only using 1 other slot for Graphics card.

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

it does seem Slot 7 PCI has a bandwidth of 0.125 Gb/Sec

https://www.itcreations.com/user-manual … ations.pdf

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

I have a PCI to PCIe adapter card, I will put it in PCIe Slot 1 and see if that helps.

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

Daniel !

I think that worked !!

Oddly I had thought about it, thought maybe heat from mother board was affecting the card.

Amazing catch on the buss speed!!

I recorded 2 tracks for 5 min and no ticks.

32 track over 5 mins and no ticks!!

So far so good!

It may have been SSL Firmware too, just seems like a perfect storm.

THANK YOU SO MUCH !!!!

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 11,142

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

https://www.tegakari.net/en/2014/05/post_10/

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

25 Reply by Mario @ Vortex (edited by Mario @ Vortex 2026-09-03 16:19:50)

  • Registered: 2023-08-07
  • Posts: 21

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

OMG.... I just  realized that when my SSL Alpha Link AX (ADAT option) began to develop clocking issues was when I added additional channels... I could never get it to Sync properly. I had abandoned the RME and used ADAT i/o only.

I just hooked it up and it works fine !!

I had the opportunity to buy a Live-R thinking the MADI loop would automatically recognize the Channels.
It doesn't, but everything was Sync'ing with 24/ i/o so I left it alone thinking the AX was the problem.

But earlier this summer I got another Live-R, figuring I could link the additional AES via the 2 units and use TotalMix as the a Matrix HP mixer.

I just got around to hooking everything up preparing for some sessions in the fall, and BAM... the Sync'issue started...

Oufff.... Firmware updates... Driver updates... Cables... all kind of configuration...

Daniel to the rescue!!!

Like I said, I had a hunch about using the PCI>PCIe adapter... but I did not know about the bus speed issue.

Thank you again, RME is amazing! The MADI - USB is next on my purchase list.
And probably a new MADI PCIe FX, then keep the old MADI with the AX.

26 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2026-09-03 17:22:31)

  • ramses
  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 15,880

Re: HDSP MADI (old PCI card)

The HDSPe MADI FX is IMHO the best card, as it offers FX, RoomEQ and Crossfeed.

It has 3 MADI buses, and the 3rd one can be changed from Coax to Optical with an optional daughter card (Opto-X).

Regarding I/O
- 1x phones output
- 1x AES I/O
- 1x MIDI I/O
- 3x MIDI via "MIDI over MADI"
are very useful.

Through AES you could, e.g., integrate an RME reference converter.

You can perform headphone linearization using the 9-band Room EQ or the 5+2=7-band PEQ of the reference converter.
Supported by a tool that I wrote: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=43518

The HDSPe MADI FX card is a PCIe 1.1 card that can run in any PCIe slot, as PCIe is fully backward compatible.

BR Ramses - HDSPe MADI FX, M-1620 Pro D, 12Mic, UFX III, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, Nuendo 15, Win10 IoT Ent