• Registered: 2007-05-02
  • Posts: 316

Topic: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

I just want to mention that nothing has changed from 3.21 to 3.26 with reference to the WDM vs ASIO behavior. Unless an ASIO host is instantiated on my machine BEFORE starting WDM playback with a media player, ASIO will remain silent until that media player is closed and the ASIO driver is reset.

FYI...

PS: sometimes I just like to instantiate a playable instrument during film playback to study an arrangement or learn a song, or just exercise my hearing...

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,198

Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

Do you have the "Optimize for Multiclient Mixing" tick box selected in the HDSP settings dialog?

I can't say I've tried this experiment verbatim, but I have not run into this issue myself.

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

3 Reply by undertone (edited by undertone 2011-08-10 23:10:26)

  • Registered: 2007-05-02
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Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

Randyman... wrote:

Do you have the "Optimize for Multiclient Mixing" tick box selected in the HDSP settings dialog?

Yeppers. It should work but it doesn't and like I said it's been this way since RME introduced the shared multiclient channels. I have to remember to start an ASIO client first, even if I don't need it, because that way I can always instantiate another ASIO client after instantiating a WDM client.

BTW the TM in the taskbar seems ok now (it used to go missing after a reboot).

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,198

Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

I do believe I've rebooted, opened a WDM player (like iTunes or VLC), and was able to launch Nuendo with ASIO just fine.  I'll try to re-create your exact scenario later when I get home (reboot the PC, launch WMP or iTunes WDM and keep it open, then launch Nuendo w/ASIO and see if I get any ASIO from Nuendo)

BTW - I never had the disappearing TM issue with any drivers on Multiface/Digiface HDSP or MADI HDSP and MADI HDSPe cards.  This seems to be PC/Environment specific from what I can tell as not everyone was affected...

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8
  • Registered: 2007-05-02
  • Posts: 316

Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

Randyman... wrote:

BTW - I never had the disappearing TM issue with any drivers on Multiface/Digiface HDSP or MADI HDSP and MADI HDSPe cards.  This seems to be PC/Environment specific from what I can tell as not everyone was affected...

Hmmm... Maybe this WDM/ASIO issue is also system dependent... Thanks for looking into this.

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1
  • From: Houston, TX
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Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

Just checked on a fresh boot:  Opened iTunes and had a song playing.  I then launched a Nuendo project while iTunes was still playing.  Nuendo worked over ASIO, and I heard both audio streams at once.  This is on my Mixing/Desktop DAW, and I did have Nuendo on different playback channels from iTunes - as well as not having all ASIO I/O assigned to Nuendo (only the Control Room outputs were assigned/active via ASIO) - so maybe that also plays a part?  I'm too tuckered to test further tonight...

Go figure!  That's computers and software for you.  I'll try some more standardized tests later.

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

7 Reply by undertone (edited by undertone 2011-08-11 21:41:36)

  • Registered: 2007-05-02
  • Posts: 316

Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

Randyman... wrote:

This is on my Mixing/Desktop DAW, and I did have Nuendo on different playback channels from iTunes - as well as not having all ASIO I/O assigned to Nuendo (only the Control Room outputs were assigned/active via ASIO) - so maybe that also plays a part?

Big thanks Randyman for compromising your beauty sleep wink If you're not sharing channels between ASIO and WDM, then you're not testing the channel sharing feature of the new driver; that's in fact what I'm doing and it makes it possible to have multiple audio apps available at once on the same channels. Where in Nuendo the ASIO channels are assigned makes no difference; I use the Control Room too.

It's great not to have to have to think about channel assignments and just to switch from app to app without restarting any of them, or just start new ones without issues. It also makes it possible for Sound Forge for example to use the built-in resampling of the WDM system; with ASIO, SF will ask the ASIO driver to match the sample rate of the file it's playing.

The way I have it set up is the Multiface ADAT channels 1-6 are my WDM channels assigned in Windows 7 as 5.1 surround channels (I run surround, ADAT -> ADI-8). It's in this context that running a WDM media player first on these channels won't let ASIO work if started afterwards.

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,198

Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

Yeah – My setup is slightly un-conventional.  I save the projects at the studio with the MADI card configuration, and then open the same projects at home for mixing on the MF – so NONE of the MF I/O is detected in the project with the exception of the Control Room Outs which are tied to the specific Nuendo installation and not the specific project I/O settings.  I sometimes forget how unusual it is to work this way – sorry about that!

I’ll give this another whirl by opening the Nuendo Project, assigning all of the MF I/O to the project and re-save it.  Then, I’ll reboot, open iTunes, and try to open the re-saved project with all I/O enabled and “active”.  This should absolutely test the MultiClient capabilities AFAIK…

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

9 Reply by MC

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Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

undertone, one information in this thread is missing: did you ever try with the multi-client mixing checkbox unchecked?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2007-05-02
  • Posts: 316

Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

MC wrote:

undertone, one information in this thread is missing: did you ever try with the multi-client mixing checkbox unchecked?

As a matter of fact, no! I just tried it:

1. Now AFTER I've started WDM playback, I can start an ASIO host and hear it.
2. BUT the latency is excessive; it feels like 400 - 600 ms or so.
3. If I then stop WDM playback and reset the ASIO audio, and then resume the WDM playback, the latency is what its supposed to be and both play simultaneously.

I tried instantiating WDM playback followed by an ASIO host several times and at least twice, the excessive latency didn't happen. But the incidence of that is rare and most of the time the excessive latency occurs.

So we're getting somewhere! Thanks.

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1

11 Reply by MC

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Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

Can you please try to measure the excessive latency with a tool like CE ASIO Latency Test, then tell us the result at a given buffer size? That would give us further hints where to look.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

12 Reply by undertone (edited by undertone 2011-09-03 00:25:03)

  • Registered: 2007-05-02
  • Posts: 316

Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

OK: I downloaded the Centrance software and here are the results. BTW: if anyone else want to try this, turn down or mute your speakers when you take a reading! It slams every track in TM with loud POP when you use it...

Tests were done at 44.1kHz.

Starting WDM and then ASIO: the HDSP driver reports 256 samples (5.80ms), but Centrance reads 16930 samples / 383.90 ms for the "ASIO Hammerfal DSP" driver (a-HA!)

Pausing WDM playback and resetting ASIO, and then restarting both: the HDSP driver still reports as above, but now the measurement is 546 samples / 12.28 ms. So it's much better, but not entirely what it should be.

Hope this helps!

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,198

Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

Just checking in - I haven't had any free time to test further on my side - sorry smile  Sounds like you are close to a breakthrough...

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8
  • Registered: 2007-05-02
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Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

No sweat, Randyman. We all get busy... Thanks for contributing!

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1

15 Reply by MC

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Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

undertone: if you are willing to test a slightly changed driver which might (!) fix your problem - go here:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/hd … 7_test.zip

I say 'might' because we don't see the error on our machines, but have a theory based on your measurements and tried to fix the possible problem.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2007-05-02
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Re: HDSP 3.26 driver: WDM player before ASIO = no ASIO (still)

Thanks MC: here's the report.

With "Optimize Multiclient Mixing" Enabled:

- With nothing playing, the HDSP driver reports 256 samples (5.80 ms),  and the Centrance software reports 546 sample (12.38 ms) (input + output no doubt).
- Starting WDM then starting ASIO: sound from WDM but no sound from ASIO. Attempting to read the latency with the Centrance software results in a different value every time: 19604 (444.54ms), 422 (9.12ms), 3728 (84.54ms), 406 (9.21ms), 262 (5.94ms), etc... it never is the same. However apart from the pop generated on the read, the WDM playback seems unaffected by these changing latency values.
- If I stop WDM playback, ASIO still doesn't sound. Interestingly, Centrance tells me it "Can not measure the latency, please check your connections..." I'm using the MF's internal loopback to run this test so nothing's changed.
- If I then reset ASIO, ASIO sounds and I get a consistent 546 samples (12.38ms) of latency.
- If I then restart WDM playback, I hear both WDM and ASIO playback. The Centrance software reads the buffer size as 546 samples but about 50% of the time it reads other random values < 546 samples.

With "Optimize Multiclient Mixing" Disabled:

- As before, with nothing playing,  the HDSP driver reports 256 samples (5.80 ms), while the Centrance reports 546 samples (12.38 ms).
- Starting WDM, buffer readings are the same.
- Then starting ASIO: sound from WDM but no sound from ASIO. As before, attempting to read the latency with the Centrance software results in a different value every time.
- On stopping of WDM playback, ASIO playback immediately starts with high latency. And the Centrance software reads a consistent 16930 samples (383.90 ms)
- If ASIO is reset, latency is now down to 546 samples (12.38 ms) on every Centrance read.
- If WDM playback is restarted: both WDM and ASIO sound and the buffer size remains mostly consistent at 546 samples (12.38 ms); one reading out of about every 8 will be lower, and not consistently the same.

<whew!>

PC1 = HDSPe PCIe: DF-ADI-8 DS / HDSPe PCIe: MF2
MBP = HDSPe Expresscard: MF1