Topic: Question about the HDSP 9652 driver on windows 7 64bit

Hey,

I've just installed a new windows 7 64bit DAW system for the first time. Before I was using win XP.

I've discovered a few things about PDC latency and the drivers loaded for the HDSP 9652.

The latency is higher on win7 compared to XP. On XP It was about 5-20 ms, and on win7 (optimized (services, device drivers)), it's about 80-90 ms.
Then I check out the hardware device driver, and saw that I had both a 32bit & 64bit names for:

- HDSP.SYS
- HDSP_64.SYS

Is that as it should be, or should I only see the 64bit version  on my 64bit system?

Another thing I saw was, that the Process - HDSP32.exe & HDSPmix.exe both was 32bit instances. Hmm.. is it only the installer that is made 100% native with 64bit, and some of the driver still should run as 32bit?

I rest my case, if thats all fine :-)

SLL

RME Raydat, Asus Z370-A prime, i7 8700, Noctua D15s cooler, Corsair RM850x, Crucial 32GB DDR4 ram

Re: Question about the HDSP 9652 driver on windows 7 64bit

The two sys files are quite normal.

And mixer and settings are just two small control applications, not really part of the driver as such. No need fo 64 bit here.
(Time to add this to the FAQ, I guess... DeadHorse)

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

3 (edited by SLL 2011-10-08 22:59:03)

Re: Question about the HDSP 9652 driver on windows 7 64bit

Thanks, I was just curious about the instances.

I have a follow up question about windows 7's own sound structure, and how the HDSP driver are going through (I think) windows 7 directX, or?
At least, I can't figure out how it works out. But I don't think the HDSP drivers have a direct connection with the HDSP hardware. The sound layer
in win7, and the mixer (volume controls), do they affect the sound quality in some way?

And in the win7 sound (volume controls) setup, should the volume sliders be turned full up, or how does this work?

The above is when I use media player to play mp3 files. Hmm.. when I'm in Cubase (not installed it yet), will the ASIO driver have a direct connection with the hardware, or is it mapped thought some DirectX stuff in win7?

EDIT:
To sum up, I've trying to find the best and most stable setup & best sound. And also trying to get the lowest DPC latency in win7, as it's higher than in XP.
Found out, that the USB driver does make DPC higher on my setup. Now I'm going to try to disable some of the USB ports, to see if I can bring
down the DPC a bit.

SLL

RME Raydat, Asus Z370-A prime, i7 8700, Noctua D15s cooler, Corsair RM850x, Crucial 32GB DDR4 ram

Re: Question about the HDSP 9652 driver on windows 7 64bit

I've got my new win7 64bit installation up and running, dual booted with my old trusted XP music partition. Tonight, I've compared the performance between the two operation systems. And XP do perform a little better here.

Projects that are running at about 80-95% (ASIO meter, with a few peak led blinks) on my XP setup, goes a little higher on the win 7 setup, where the peak blinks are more frequent, nearly constant lit. The sound quality (clicks and such) on high loads are therefore a little worse in the win7 setup, but not much worse then on XP.

It's the 32bit Cubase version I've installed on both setups, and the plugins are all 32bit.

Now I ask myself, why do XP perform better than win7? Hmm.. The PDC latency is a little better on my XP setup (about 30-40 us), and (60-100 us) on win7. I've fiddled with win7 optimization all night, and just can't get PDC down to the XP values. The usbport.sys and a atapi.sys driver are the cause that brings PDC more up then on XP. I don't know, if an older usbport.sys driver would change anything, but for now I'm using the .sys drivers that comes with win7. Maybe the double up PDC latency on win7 is the cause for the worse ASIO driver performance. Could also the core win7 OS, that just is slower than XP, don't know?

Do any of you have performance compared both XP and win7, and what are your findings? Have you managed to get your PDC down to a minimum (0-20) on win7? If so, how did you do it?

SLL

RME Raydat, Asus Z370-A prime, i7 8700, Noctua D15s cooler, Corsair RM850x, Crucial 32GB DDR4 ram

Re: Question about the HDSP 9652 driver on windows 7 64bit

Hi SLL,
Performance difference for better or worse are coming from your computer hardware more than from the OS. If your running Windows 7 on older hardware that is designed more for XP then XP will most likely perform better. The drivers of the various hardware components of your computer have a big influence on the system performance.
DPC readouts at 0-20 are not any indication of performance. You should be more concerned with DPC spikes rather than the steady idle state it runs at. With an audio application running on brand new DPC will typically idle between 100 - 300 depending on the hardware specs. With no audio running DPC's of 100 or less perfectly normal no indication of overall system performance.
Your BIOs settings can also effect your DPC and overall system performance but I have no idea what hardware you are using. smile

Here is the best site for optimizing your Windows 7 system for audio.
http://www.tweakhound.com/windows7/tweaking/index.html

Thanks Chris

Chris Ludwig
North East USA Sales | Synthax/RME
www.facebook.com/RMEAmericas
Twitter @RMEAmericas

Re: Question about the HDSP 9652 driver on windows 7 64bit

So nice of you Chris with this info. I always thought, that PDC was the cause of software drivers that behaved badly. But maybe it's the older hardware I'm using... Asus P5K Deluxe (P35 chipset), Q6600, ATI X1550 gfxcard... together with a pretty new win7 64bit + SP1. I think the P35 chipset came 2006/2007. So the comp is about 5 years old. In fact I once tried to plug a 2010 ATI GTX640 gfxcard in the x 16 slot. This gave me the bad red peaks you're talking about, and with the standard ATI driver. There was nothing to do, that return the gfxcard. Before that I had an older Geforce G8800 GTS card (faulty now), which was running fine in the mobo, no peaks. So when I returned the GTX460, I got hold of a passive cooled ATI X1550 , which gave me very low PDC latencies in XP. And as said, about double up on win7.

But I hear you. I shouldn't be too concerned about the 50-100us PDC. It's not as steady as I would have want it to be, but maybe it doesn't matter much as long as PDC in down at max 100. I may need to buy myself a new Sandy Bridge system, or wait for X79. I don't like the ITE PCI -> PCIe bridge that is mounted on all Sandy Bridge mobos. I'm not 100% sure if this would create PDC problems for my HDSP 9652 I/O PCI card, but I could imagine that it would going through a chipset + maybe ITE driver? After what I can read, Intel has fixed some firmware stuff in the ITE chipsets, so that PCI audio performance should suffer from the bridging. And I don't think the X79 chipset will support older PCI cards directly, unfortunately.

But thanks for the link. Now there is some more stuff I can study on, hopefully making my system even better for audio than it is. As I still don't like, that ASIO on XP performs better than on win7.

SLL

RME Raydat, Asus Z370-A prime, i7 8700, Noctua D15s cooler, Corsair RM850x, Crucial 32GB DDR4 ram

Re: Question about the HDSP 9652 driver on windows 7 64bit

Even a newer generation cpu on your old mobo like a Q9550 might make enough difference for running Win7. Plus maybe a cheap HD5450. Or even easier get your hands on XP64. Doing great here. Really low DPC latency. I run one XP64 system on P5K Q6600 (OC to 3ghz) no RME and one on P5Q and Q9550 (OC to 3.6GHZ) with HDSP9652
Oh and there was a period that the radeon HD drivers had real bad dpc issues. They are fixed now, luckily

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Question about the HDSP 9652 driver on windows 7 64bit

Thanks Vincent,

I don't think I'll upgrade my cpu. But I will get a new DAW system soon. But for now, as I'm gone from the more than 10 years old XP, I'm going to use win7 with old older Q6600 cpu. Then when the new X79 chipset mobos is released, I'm going to select is I should get a Z68, or X79 system. If the X79 cpu's is way too expensive, I'll stay with Z68 :-)

SLL

RME Raydat, Asus Z370-A prime, i7 8700, Noctua D15s cooler, Corsair RM850x, Crucial 32GB DDR4 ram