Topic: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

As suggested by David in an other thread, I try to program a little live set template for my trio.
You will find underneath, the beginning of our conversation and even lower the images and the links to the template project.
Philippe

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Hello Neirbod,
I am more and more interrested by a control surface for my UFX. I first thought I would go for a BCF2000, but the ipad seems a better option for me (lighter, I can tighten it to a mic stand, have my sheet music on it, other apps as "Everyday looper" interrest me ...).
So I think I will wait a little for the iPad 3 and use Lemur.
I was also very concerned about the rotary encoders of the Lemur App, and I downloaded the free Lemur Editor for PC and programmed a 3 pages layout for testing.
The Rotary Encoders have different "Behaviours" options : If you choose the "standard behaviour", it is very dangerous (you can go from 0 to Max in just a little horizontal micro motion, I also plan to adjust the gain of the mics and it cannot be that way !.
I found the following options of the object "Knob" much more reasonable : I chose the following behaviors : CursorMode = Limited / Control = Linear and Physics = None, and it is perfect : If you need to adjust the gain, you must clic inside the knob or just on the rotary area, and slide vertically without any risk. if you move sideways, it has no effect and the speed of the thing can also be controled.
If you want to try it easily, you can download the free editor and test it yourself (you can emulate an iPad and the touch with your mouse).
If needed, I can also send you my template for the "live Set" (if it really can do what I programmed, it is Exactly what I need to drive my UFX standalone on stage !!). I even programmed a "Reverb" and "Echo" button, with all the options that are grey when inactive, and everything in colors when active (don't know if I will be able to do that with UFX commands for the standalone beast... but at least it works on the Lemur !)
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Hi Philippe,

Thanks for the info on how to create a safe rotary encoder!  That is very good news.

I (and I think others) would be very interested in any template you developed for live use.  May I suggest that you start a new thread specifically to discuss Lemur and post the template there?  I would not want this good information to get lost in this more general thread.  Or if you don't want to post it on the forum please send it to me in an email.  I am waiting on the iPad 3 (I borrowed an iPad 2 from a friend to test TouchOSC) so it will be a few weeks before I can get one and try it.  In the meantime, that is a good idea to work with the editor.  I will do that.

Cheers,

David
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Screen of the iPad for the main output :
[img align=C]http://lepetitgroupedumardi.free.fr/1.jpg[/img]

Screen of the iPad for the effects (for example when Reverb is ON and Echo is OFF)
[img align=C]http://lepetitgroupedumardi.free.fr/2.jpg[/img]

Screen of the iPad to set the singer's mix
[img align=C]http://lepetitgroupedumardi.free.fr/3.jpg[/img]

The link to the lemur template is here : Link to the Lemur Template

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

Thanks, Philippe!  Looks like a great starting point.

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

Hi David,
as you seem more advanced than me with the iPad (I also wait for the version 3, but I've never touched a version 1 or 2).
Maybe you can answer my question :
With the template I prepared above (with different mix possibilities and effects settings, how do you think it will connect with the iPad directly to the UFX ? Using the iPad's PhotoPort converted to USB and direct to the rear USB port of the UFX ? So the protocol would remain Osx ?
That's the only point that bothers me now, I can prepare a template, progress into programmation ... but I am still not sure I can drive directly my UFX with this template without TotalMix FX (I just want to use the iPad, even if I do not have a Wifi connection).
Philippe

4

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

Please note that this template (as Philippe mentioned in his first post) is a first basic design idea and it is not working at this time (I tried). That will need some more work.

BTW, we found someone who tries to convert our TouchOSC template into a Lemur template. I will come back in a few days with more information. That template also might give some useful info on how to finish Philippe's so that it works as expected.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

5

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

PhilippeMustang wrote:

but I am still not sure I can drive directly my UFX with this template without TotalMix FX (I just want to use the iPad, even if I do not have a Wifi connection).

You can't, and it has nothing to do with the template. The iPad (Lemur) needs WiFi, and the UCX needs TotalMix. It can't do this on its own.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

Philippe,

I am not very advanced with the iPad as I only tried using my friend's for about a week to test TouchOSC.

As for connecting Lemur to TotalMix, as MC said you will need: 1) a computer that is connected to the UFX and running Total Mix, 2) an iPad running Lemur, 3) a wifi connection between the two devices.  In the other thread, I described some problems I had connecting the iPad to my computer, and how I eventually resolved the problems.  This may be helpful for you to read.  The short version is 1) make sure your drivers are up to date, and 2) I personally had much better performance with an adhoc network than using my home network's router.  An adhoc network would be necessary for live gigs anyway as you can't rely on a venue having a wifi network.

MC - I am looking forward to seeing the Lemur template!

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

Thanks MC and neirbob for your answers,
So I am afraid I have to stop my investigations, I thought I could connect directly the iPad with the UFX in standalone mode (with any sort of cable)
I will go on the "old way", with the 3 rotating knobs and the little screen !
Have a nice evening,
Philippe

8

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

Well, basically you can. If you get a MIDI adapter for the iPad and then use the MIDI I/O of the UFX you can use all available stand-alone MIDI features (see manual, simple MIDI plus Mackie protocol).

But that was not what you asked about before ;-)

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

MC wrote:

Well, basically you can. If you get a MIDI adapter for the iPad and then use the MIDI I/O of the UFX you can use all available stand-alone MIDI features (see manual, simple MIDI plus Mackie protocol).

But that was not what you asked about before ;-)

With the speed that you guys develop great products, it should be no problem to embed a WPA WiFi module, an apple USB/dock port, and a small BSD core with embedded TMFX/OSC for the next version of the UFX? smile

I'm happy to take on some Lemur dev next week. I'll look at Philippe's template (nice layout!) but if you can make the other one available it might save me some leg work.

While the full TMFX functionality is great for an engineer, I do like Philippe's approach as a cut down alternative for on stage musician use.

Cheers
Brendan

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

Matthias, an idea:

It would be great to extend the TMFX b4 channel layout option to include a feild for a device ID. Nothing complex, just a short device name, allowing multiple entires. (ie: John, Peter, FOH, etc)

Then in settings under OSC / MIDI setup, allow multiple "Found Remote Services" to participate (I think this is a standard option under OSC), and allow allocation of a device name for each.

That way, each musician / engineer can have their own iThing in hand and only see the channels for which their device is assinged - this could revolutionise monitor mixing for all those but the ones who can afford a monitor engineer!

Cheers
Brendan

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

Hello MC,
I have asked this exact same question here in a thread two weeks ago with no luck, but it was probably unclear, so that's why I chose an other approach, downloaded Lemur Editor, create a template, publish images ...
just for info it was :

I would like to control the UFX in standalone, what are the options ? (shall I wait for a possibility of doing this via an Ipad ?)

In my "quest for an easy answer to a complicated question", I sent a template with faders and things that can be done in UFX standalone mode, and I just would like to know if I can drive standalone my UFX with an iPad, even with cables.

With this new thread, I have now two answers :

You can't

(I think you mean with the iPad camera interface to USB port and the Osc language connnected to the UFX rear USB port)
and

Well, basically you can

(with the Midi interface and an iPad output to midi adaptator), not sure I can access via midi some features such as Reverb/Echo settings ...

Well, I think I'll wait for some other users experiences before to buy an iPad (that won't be available before late March I think).

Have an excellent Week End (I know you answer on Sunday, but you should'nt :-)
Philippe

12 (edited by jensen 2012-03-02 20:11:09)

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

I worked on a lemur template the last days in my free time. I have the pure mixer part kinda working now (I have an UC) but I am not really satisfied yet. Faders and simple push buttons work fine but buttons relaying on the response of totalmix (like globalSolo / globalMute etc) have a high delay compared to touchOSC. I am new to OSC scripting and the protocol at all so I dont know if its a problem in the lemur - totalmix communication or just lemur. all in all it seems to me that lemur templates really needs scripting to work properly .

if I have time at the weekend I will look into it and maybe post a first version here.

13 (edited by PhilippeMustang 2012-03-03 21:04:46)

Re: Test Template for Live band trio with Lemur and UFX

Hi,
After reading lots of other posts, and going on trying to understand, I came to the conclusion that what I want to do is impossible until the UFX becomes "Class Compliant" like the UCX (I didn't know what it meant before).
From what I understand from an other post, the UFX could become "Class Compliant" one day.
Maybe it can help others like me who are far from experts in this field and who understand slowly,
Philippe