• Registered: 2011-11-17
  • Posts: 16

Topic: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

I went to a new computer with Win8. Setup of my Fireface UC went smoothly, everything works.
But:

My Fireface is plugged into a switchable power bar, together with some active monitor speakers. I'm not using this sound rig all the time the computer is switched on. So I thought it sensible to power it up separately and only when needed.

With Windows 7 and my old computer this worked very well. But not so anymore with Windows 8. Now every time I switch on the Fireface, the analog output pair 7+8 of the Fireface (which is the headphone socket) becomes the default audio playback device.
This may be a desirable behaviour for the average user who occasionally plugs in his USB headset, but not for me. I like my monitor speakers (and thus the Fireface) dedicated to music. I want bit-transparent sound, untouched by Windows' internal remixing/resampling functions. All other sound (youtube, system sounds etc.) should go to the built in sound device of my motherboard, therefore this should remain the default.

Here are my questions:
1. Is this behaviour (newly plugged in USB sound devices become the default playback device) defined by Windows 8?
2. If so, can this be changed by the user?
3. Can this be initiated (or better 'prevented' in my case) by the device driver of the sound device in question?
4. Are there other known solutions to this problem?
5. Could an addition be made to TotalMix, providing a choice to the user if the Fireface shall be default device (and which stereo pair shall be the front speakers)?

My own research into the matter turned up only this, which may probably help someone with the same or similar problem: http://www.daveamenta.com/2011-05/progr … windows-7/
This one works with device numbers, they are different on every system and subject to change when a new sound device gets installed. Every one who wants to use this has to adapt it to his or her individual system.


Windows 8 Pro 64 bit
Fireface UC, Firmware 117, driver 1.028

  • Registered: 2011-11-17
  • Posts: 16

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

Someone took the command line tool I mentioned above and made it into a tray application. It works on my Win 8 x64 machine (the author says it should work from Win 7 on upwards). Just place a shortcut to it into your autostart folder. It then resides in the tray and allows you to change the default sound device with a total of 2 clicks.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1656534

This is an improvement, but I for one would still prefer the old behaviour, in that a newly plugged in USB sound device should NOT become the default.

3 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,929

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

All you have to do is go to the Sound panel, Tab Playback, select your onboard sound playback device, and click the 'Set Default' button.

W8 does not behave differently to W7 or XP when hot-plugging.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

4 Reply by OttoKerner (edited by OttoKerner 2013-01-15 13:16:51)

  • Registered: 2011-11-17
  • Posts: 16

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

MC wrote:

All you have to do is go to the Sound panel, Tab Playback, select your onboard sound playback device, and click the 'Set Default' button.

Yes, I did so. The solutions I posted above are just shortcuts to this very same procedure. But when I power down my sound rig and switch it on the next day, I have to do this again, and again the next day, and again...

MC wrote:

W8 does not behave differently to W7 or XP when hot-plugging.

Apparently, for me it did. My Win 7 retained the default sound device setting, no matter if I hot-plugged the Fireface. Which was nice IMHO :-)

5 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,929

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

I use Windows 8 Pro, logged in as Admin. No such problem...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

6 Reply by OttoKerner (edited by OttoKerner 2013-01-15 18:19:45)

  • Registered: 2011-11-17
  • Posts: 16

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

I checked too, if this is something with me logging in as normal user. But it's just the same when I log in as Admin.
I start off with onboard sound as default, then hot-plug in the Fireface and the Fireface becomes the default. Set the default manually back to onboard, switch off the Fireface, wait 10 secs for good measure, switch Fireface back on et voilà, Fireface is default again.

7 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,929

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

Not so here. What can I say...just whatever causes this is (obviously) outside of our driver.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2011-11-17
  • Posts: 16

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

I just discovered this:
When I change the samplerate in the "Fireface USB settings" (for example from 44.1k to 48K) the default sound device also gets changed to a pair of the Fireface's outputs.
Sometimes it picks ADAT 5+6 instead of the usual Analog 7+8 as default.

Arrrgh...

9 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,929

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

That makes sense (in your case). Changing the sample rate reloads all devices...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

10 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,929

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

Further thinking brought up a possible explanation for this effect. We have seen motherboards where the on-board sound implementation sucks. It got disabled the moment another audio device is added. It got not disabled but produced a conflict. Etc.

Imagine your on-board sound is disabled the moment another sound device is added to the system, and enabled again shortly after that. This would result in the exact issue that you experience. Windows would change the default playback device to a different device because the original device just vanished, the moment it comes back Windows will not revert it to be the default.

If that is the case it is most probably a BIOS issue, and might be visible in the Device Manager. Open it and expand the tree with the current audio device. Now plug in the UC and see if the on-board device vanishes for a moment.

It might also help to buy a very cheap PCI/PCIe soundcard for the computer, disabling on-board sound completely in the BIOS.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

11 Reply by OttoKerner (edited by OttoKerner 2013-01-24 00:14:35)

  • Registered: 2011-11-17
  • Posts: 16

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

MC wrote:

Further thinking brought up a possible explanation for this effect. We have seen motherboards where the on-board sound implementation sucks. It got disabled the moment another audio device is added. It got not disabled but produced a conflict. Etc.

Imagine your on-board sound is disabled the moment another sound device is added to the system, and enabled again shortly after that. This would result in the exact issue that you experience. Windows would change the default playback device to a different device because the original device just vanished, the moment it comes back Windows will not revert it to be the default.

This steered me in the right direction! Finally, I solved it: The culprit was the driver of my onboard sound device (which is a VIA VT2021 codec). All I did was to uninstall/delete the (VIA-)driver that came with my mainboard and let Windows install the basic (Microsoft-)driver automatically. Now everything works like it ought to.

The lesson from this can only be: steer clear from the bloated drivers which some manufacturers use to differentiate their cheap hardware from other cheap hardware. The basic driver from Microsoft gives you less functionality, but also less trouble!
(It should have made me thinking: Why is the VIA-driver about 40 MB [unzipped] and the Microsoft one is only a few Kb?!)
If someone else experiences similar trouble, he or she should check if their onboard sound device is a VIA one and if the Windows task manager shows a process named "ViakaraokeSrv.exe". This is a telltale sign of that quirked driver software.

Thank you very much for bearing with me, MC!

12 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,929

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

You're welcome. I had a similar moment with the audio chip in my Dell Studio laptop. It is an IDT codec (never again!), and its drivers are...well you know it. Although thousands of people complained about all its ill effects (the worst for me was that after wakeup from standby one of my CPUs hang with 100% load) they did not fix anything. The solution: MS standard drivers...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: Lake Garda - Italy
  • Registered: 2009-01-13
  • Posts: 64

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

Hi Matthias,
I know this is OT, but it is good to know you moved to win 8.
May I ask you how do you feel about it ?

I liked it at first sight but I am having very poor performance regarding clicks and dropouts.

Very surprised as it is clearly a step up in resource managing.

Sorry again for the OT !
Luca

Unguitar 2009's Website

14 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,929

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

For me Win 8 is more or less unusable. I don't see anyone seriously using his computer moving to Win 8 soon, nor did I. I do only testing with it (and find a new problem - also outside the audio world - every day). IMHO if you get a new computer having Win 8 on it - invest the money and buy a Win 7 license. If you want to get entertained (App store and such) get yourself an iOS device. I stick with Win 7, Win 8 gives me zero reason to change.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

15 Reply by OttoKerner (edited by OttoKerner 2013-01-28 18:46:28)

  • Registered: 2011-11-17
  • Posts: 16

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

I installed Classic Shell as soon as my machine booted up the second time ;-)
It made my main complaint about Win 8 obsolete. Apart from TIFKAM (The Interface Formerly Known As Metro) there is not much I could complain about. There are some rather nice additions and improvements in Win 8, but admittedly these are not for everyone.

16 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 24,929

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

Classic Shell is just one of the many measures you could use to turn W8 into a productive tool as W7 had been (I use it CS too). But it only fixes some cosmetics, as you will realize sooner or later. Good luck!

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2011-06-28
  • Posts: 2

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

MC wrote:
IMHO if you get a new computer having Win 8 on it - invest the money and buy a Win 7 license.

+1

  • Registered: 2012-05-11
  • Posts: 3

Re: FF UC on Win 8 and default sound device

I'm having a similar issue with the FFUC on Windows 7.  I have the motherboard audio disabled in the bios.  For some reason, my windows sound settings keep defaulting to the analog 7-8 outputs.  What's weird is that my settings are fine and I get audio from my monitors when in Cubase, but as soon as I close Cubase and open iTunes, I only get audio from the headphones.  Opening the windows sound panel shows me that the default audio output is set to analog 7-8.  If I set a new default, it will reset to analog 7-8 whenever I restart my comp, open/close Cubase and open iTunes.

I assume it's some error on my part, but I don't have a clue what it is.  Can anyone offer help?