1 (edited by ewb 2014-01-19 11:05:37)

Topic: Yikes! Having terrible / odd glitch with MADI-FX / Sonar X3c / ASIO

Hi there. Just got my MADI FX up and running and I'm having a very strange issue that I've never encountered in any DAW setup. Definitely a bug... but after playing with it for hours I can't determine if its on the Cakewalk or RME side. Likely Cakewalk... but unfortunately I have no other software to try it with.

System in question is RME HDSPe MADI-FX set to sync from MADI, Burl Mothership (16 channels in, 16 out, set to internal master clock) on MADI 1, Ferrofish A16 MK-II (16 I/O, sync to MADI) on MADI 2. Intel 3930k running Windows 7 x64, Sonar X3c with ASIO driver. RME driver 1.17 with Firmware 89 and DSP 19.

Problem also verified on Sonar X2b. WDM driver exhibits no issues across the board.

--------

Ok... this is hard to explain:

DURING PLAYBACK:

If I reassign any track or bus hardware output in a manner that the old output WILL BE LEFT EMPTY (no other tracks feeding it) and the new output WAS EMPTY (before the reassign) I am left with an infinite, skipping loop of audio in the original hardware channel. The junk audio is composed of approximately the last 100 milliseconds of playback information from the track I reassigned.

For instance:

Guitar    -> MADI 1-2
(Empty) -> MADI 3-4

I reassign the guitar *during playback*...

(Empty)  -> MADI 1-2
Guitar     -> MADI 3-4

The guitar is successfully reassigned, but I am left with a short, infinite loop of guitar in MADI Out 1-2.

There will be no issue / effect if either the original or target hardware output has other content feeding it. For instance:

Vocal     -> MADI 1-2                      Vocal  -> MADI 1-2
Guitar    -> MADI 1-2   |Reassign|  Guitar -> MADI 3-4    (OK!)
(Empty) -> MADI 3-4                   

or

Guitar -> MADI 1-2   |Reassign|  Guitar -> MADI 3-4    (OK!)
Vocal  -> MADI 3-4                      Vocal  -> MADI 3-4


----

Further observation:

The looping sound remains even after stopping playback and even after closing / reopening SONAR. It IS silent while Sonar is closed and / or while in ASIO configuration.

The junk audio is clearly visible in Totalmix (playback channel pegged at whatever level the audio was when the reassignment happened)

Analysis with DIGICheck shows the audio looping in the respective channels' ASIO playback and hardware. This, however, is STILL VISIBLE when Sonar is closed or has otherwised released its ASIO control. It is like a short audio buffer is trapped somewhere in a rogue thread.

It can be stopped by reassigning any track or bus to the glitched hardware output while playback is stopped.

During playback it can also be stopped by re-routing any track / bus to the glitched output, but (as noted) if the hardware output that bus was on is now orphaned, it will become a glitched output itself.

It has a similar, odd relationship to other tracks in groups of 8. If I reassign from an empty/silent group of 8 buses, to another group (MADI 1-2 to MADI 9-10 for instance) there will be no AUDIBLE loop and it will not appear in TotalMix. However, the looping audio can still be seen in DIGICheck, and it will be heard as soon as any other output from the original group of 8 is used (for instance, MADI 3-4).


-----

Confused? Me too. =\

Thanks for your time,
-ewb

Re: Yikes! Having terrible / odd glitch with MADI-FX / Sonar X3c / ASIO

Just noticed there's an X3d update while posting to Cakewalk forums.

Downloaded, installed, problem remains.

3

Re: Yikes! Having terrible / odd glitch with MADI-FX / Sonar X3c / ASIO

The problem might be that the card is designed in groups of 8. Any action on one of those channels will let the other channels become active within the hardware. Sonar seems not to delete the card's buffers (fill with zeroes) on stop, so that the no longer used channels repeatedly spit out the info left in those.

Questions: are we talking about ASIO or WDM/KS (you mentioned ASIO, just to be sure)? Is the option 'Optimize Multi-client mixing', Settings dialog, Global tab, on or off, and does it make a difference?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Yikes! Having terrible / odd glitch with MADI-FX / Sonar X3c / ASIO

!!!!

Halfway there.

Optimize Multi Client Mixing does indeed fix the first 8 channels of the 1st MADI port. I had tried it before but I was testing higher channels. 9-16 are still not clearing the buffer... nor are MADI port 2, channels 1-16.

Yes, ASIO.

WDM Devices set to 3, as per manual, and all 3 devices disabled in windows (system sounds going out HDMI to LCD screen).

Just noticed it also happens with Sonar's live input monitoring (transport idle).

Thanks.

5

Re: Yikes! Having terrible / odd glitch with MADI-FX / Sonar X3c / ASIO

Thanks for the info. We'll check.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Yikes! Having terrible / odd glitch with MADI-FX / Sonar X3c / ASIO

MC wrote:

Sonar seems not to delete the card's buffers (fill with zeroes) on stop

Matthias,

I and other RME users have had various issues with Sonar that seem related to communication with ASIO drivers (probably not the right terminology, but hopefully close enough).  Could this issue with it deleting buffers affect other RME gear?

Re: Yikes! Having terrible / odd glitch with MADI-FX / Sonar X3c / ASIO

A temporary solution has been found with the kind help of a cakewalk forum user:

Assign empty / blank tracks to all hardware outputs.

This works even if the tracks are archived (muted/locked).

Thus I created 32 new stereo tracks, assigned to all 32 outputs I am using, archived all 32 tracks, hid all 32 tracks. Problem is gone.

As this setup can easily be added to my templates its an easy enough workaround in the meantime.

8

Re: Yikes! Having terrible / odd glitch with MADI-FX / Sonar X3c / ASIO

We were able to reproduce this with Sonar x3 and currently check if something is wrong on our side.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

9

Re: Yikes! Having terrible / odd glitch with MADI-FX / Sonar X3c / ASIO

And there was...

Please try driver 1.18, it fixes the channel independent operation of the driver's ASIO erase routines.

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/dr … in_118.zip

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

10

Re: Yikes! Having terrible / odd glitch with MADI-FX / Sonar X3c / ASIO

Your genius is only matched by your efficiency.

Problem is completely fixed with driver 1.18

Thanks! And sorry for late reply... been out sick the last few days.