When the device is available for order / shipping I would guess

Can someone from RME answer if the UFX+ has better or the same converters as its predecessor, the UFX?

Also, in order to take full advantage of the Thunderbolt speed, does my motherboard need to have it, or is there a PCIe card to Thunderbolt adaptor that performs equally? I'm using a Windows 7 64 bit system with an ASUS Hero motherboard that has no Thunderbolt connectors.

Thanks!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments … wont_ever/

Thunderbolt will be quicker, have less delay and not consume as many CPU time compared to USB

(EDIT: based on knowledge about USB / thunderbolt protocol, internet articles, observations with USB, but I could not measure this due to lack of HW).

If you would read the information in the wikipedia article, then you would know:

"At the physical level, the bandwidth of Thunderbolt 1 and Thunderbolt 2 are identical, and Thunderbolt 1 cabling is thus compatible with Thunderbolt 2 interfaces. At the logical level, Thunderbolt 2 enables channel aggregation, whereby the two previously separate 10 Gbit/s channels can be combined into a single logical 20 Gbit/s channel"

So we need now only to find out whether its 1/2 or 3 ...

If you would read the information in the wikipedia article, then you would know:

"Thunderbolt 3 was developed by Intel Israel[47] and uses USB Type-C connectors"

Now look at the pictures in the wikipedia article:

1. Thunderbolt 1 + 2

2. Thunderbolt 3

Now look at the back of the UFX+ ...

You got it ?

I like it when people do the homework for me. You did great, thanks! :-)

You too! :-)

Why you need a second thread?
You already asked in https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=23871

I've been politely asking questions about the converters in the upcoming UFX+. Since I didn't get an answer here, because this thread focused more on the other question about Thunderbolt, I decided to create another thread specifically asking about the converter's quality. Now I see that that thread is gone.

I love RME products (owned a FF400 and currently the UCX), but if this is how you treat your customers (by ignoring and deleting threads asking questions about a new product), then I have to assume that you don't want my money.

Nothing is 'gone'.

Matthias,

That's my bad for not noticing that you guys merged both threads into one. My sincere apologies for that. That said, why did you take the time to respond to that but didn't bother to answer my questions? It's not like the specs are gonna change at this point, and it's crazy to think that the competition is gonna come up with a product overnight like someone said. I don't see the harm. All I asked for was official word from RME (not forum members) regarding the UFX+. I guess I'm spoiled by American companies, like Line 6, who do take the time to answer to potential customer's questions.

I understand if RME doesn't want to answer certain questions. But is it too much to ask for a reply (even if it is to say that they can't answer these questions yet)? It seems a bit rude, in my opinion, to completely ignore users (me, in this case).

Thank you!

That's all I needed to know. I wished you would've replied with that sooner :-).

BTW, the first post of the other thread I created is now post #13 of this one. Notice the reply by Garry, post #14, where he asks why I created another thread and posts a link that takes you back to this thread (the original).

I usually just jump to the last post I write on a thread, which is why I didn't notice the merge at first. This is why I thought my thread was deleted, and admittedly got irritated about that and just plain being ignored when I was simply being excited and interested in buying the new UFX+. Hopefully, people can relate to that and at least try to understand me a little.

In any case, onwards and upwards. Looking forward to checking out the specs :-).

I know :-).

RME does a fantastic job with their products. No doubt about that.

As for their forum involvement, that's up for debate. A year ago, Line 6 announced their current flagship modeler (Helix) and, since then, they have been participating across multiple forums answering customer's questions in a manner I've never seen before. They are perhaps THE most responsive music gear company I've had the pleasure to experience to date (and, like you, I've experienced a lot). You can see evidence of this in the still ongoing thread found at The Gear Page, which is NOT their forum by the way. It has over 1,200 pages (over 24,000 posts!), and counting, and their participation has not diminished one bit:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index. … x.1586637/

If you check that thread out, you'll notice posts from beta testers (i.e. Phil_m and Pietro), as well as the Product Manager (Digital Igloo), the Director of Operations (Frank Ritchotte), the Sound Designer (benadrian), and others. The only time I've seen participation similar to this was during the golden years of the Cakewalk's Sonar forum, before they got bought by Gibson. I don't know how it is over there any more, but the Sonar developers and Product managers were VERY active as well. In contrast, I find this forum super slow. Then again, thinking about it, it's kinda always been like this.

All that said, I never expected RME to be as active as those forums. It's OK if they aren't. But don't just flat out ignore people. It took almost a full week for me to get an official answer from them. That's a bit much, in my book. I guess you guys are used to this pace, and that's fine. I'm just not :-).

I'm sure it took Mathias less than a minute to reply. Hardly any time to be considered a hindrance to their workload.

Perhaps. But, unless people are flat out not interested in an upcoming product, it is expected for them to ask questions. It's always been this way. And, like I said, the reason why I got a irritated was because I felt ignored, especially when I thought that my other thread was deleted. It felt like RME was actively ignoring my questions while answering similar questions elsewhere.

Anyway, I got my answer and I'll be patient. You have a great day! :-)

Call it what you want, but their customer service is top notch both online and offline. The evidence is undeniable if you check the link to the thread I posted above.

You buy ANY product based on your personal needs. This is not exclusive to RME products. And believe me, their new Helix FX pedalboard is not just marketing blurbs. It is now considered amongst the top 3 hardware amp modeling devices in the industry, next to the Axe FX II and the Kemper. Feature-wise, it is the most complete of the three. Tone-wise, it is up for debate.

As far as sound quality, I agree that RME converters do sound natural, but there are still small differences. For example, I noticed a very slight difference between the FF400 and the UCX. A friend of mine owns both a Babyface and a UFX and he also noticed differences there, but he still considers the Babyface top notch.

In regards to delay, as RME states in their manuals and website, the Fireface UCX has a newer converter chip with lower latency than the UFX. This is important to me because I use a lot of heavy sample libraries, mostly from EWQL, Spectrasonics and Kontakt. In my case, an analog mixer is not gonna helpful, except when recording instruments (which is not as often as it used to be now that I have both a Helix and a Kemper).

Anyway, I'm not trying to create a Line 6 vs RME war here. That was not the purpose of why I brought them up. It had more to do with the fact that they have AMAZING customer service and I think that any company, not just RME, should take note in this regard. Nothing wrong about learning from others. Also, if I'm gonna spend the amount of money that a new UFX+ costs, then I wanna make sure I learn about it as much as I can and that it is indeed an upgrade to my UCX (for MY needs). I'm not one to simply part with my money just out of brand loyalty. In fact, I do not have any loyalty towards any manufacturer. Whoever provides the product that best fits my needs is the one I'll choose. For almost 10 years now, in my case that has been RME.

OK, I think I've explained myself plenty and now the thread has been derailed considerably. There's no more need for me to be here, at least for now, so I'll see you guys when I see you. Bye! :-)

I'll only speak for myself, but I've found RME to be extremely responsive via email, phone and this forum, with both pre-sale inquiries and after I purchased RME gear.  I've never asked a question on this form that went more than a day without being addressed.  The vast majority of the time, my post is addressed within hours, sometimes even minutes.  In my experience, RME has been great with driver, firmware and software updates/fixes, and adding new features.  No complaints on my end at all.  Looking forward to being able to use the UFX+ via Thunderbolt, on a Windows system.

Line6 is actually pretty good as well, but it wasn't always that way.  I've been a Line6 user since 1999, and in my experience, their customer service has been on the high end of acceptable, but not great...Until the last few years.  Now, I would put them in the great category.  They're still not quite to RME status (in my experience), but getting close.

Differences / Changes to UFX

AD, Line In 1-8, rear

Improved SNR (+ 3 dB). Improved high end frequency response, especially at 192 kHz. Improved low end frequency response.

    UFX
•    Signal to Noise ratio (SNR): 110 dB RMS unweighted, 113 dBA
•    Frequency response @ 44.1 kHz, -0.1 dB: 15 Hz – 21.5 kHz
•    Frequency response @ 96 kHz, -0.5 dB: 7 Hz – 45.5 kHz
•    Frequency response @ 192 kHz, -1 dB: 5 Hz – 66.5 kHz

    UFX+
•    Signal to Noise ratio (SNR): 113 dB RMS unweighted, 116 dBA
•    Frequency response @ 44.1 kHz, -0.1 dB: 5 Hz – 20.8 kHz
•    Frequency response @ 96 kHz, -0.5 dB: 3 Hz – 45.8 kHz
•    Frequency response @ 192 kHz, -1 dB: 2 Hz – 92 kHz

Microphone In 9-12, front
Extended gain range with special RME technology. Improved SNR by better level adaptation and new ADC.

UFX
•    Signal to Noise ratio (SNR): 112 dB RMS unweighted, 115 dBA
•    Gain range: 65 dB
•    Maximum input level, Gain 0 dB: +12 dBu
•    Maximum input level, Gain 65 dB: -53 dBu

UFX+
•    Signal to Noise ratio (SNR): 115 dB RMS unweighted, 118 dBA
•    Gain range: 75 dB
•    Maximum input level, Gain 0 dB: +18 dBu
•    Maximum input level, Gain 75 dB: -57 dBu
   
   
Instrument In 9-12, front
Inst input impedance raised from 800 kOhm to >1MOhm. Improved SNR by better level adaptation and new ADC.
   
    UFX
•    Input impedance: 800 kOhm
•    Signal to Noise ratio (SNR): 112 dB RMS unweighted, 115 dBA
   
    UFX+
•    Input impedance: 1 MOhm
•    Signal to Noise ratio (SNR): 114 dB RMS unweighted, 118 dBA

DA, Line Out 1-8, rear
Lower THD and THD+N.

UFX
•    THD: -104 dB, < 0.00063 %
•    THD+N: -100 dB, < 0.001 %

    UFX+
•    THD: < -110 dB, < 0.00032 %
•    THD+N: < -104 dB, < 0.00063 %

DA - Stereo Monitor Output Phones (9-12)
Better THD and THD+N. Changed whole DAC to phones circuit: optimized levels, switches and circuitry. Driver stage changed from 30 Ohm to 2 Ohm impedance. Max out level raised from +17 to +19 dBu (same reference as the other line outputs).

UFX
•    Maximum output level at 0 dBFS, High: +17 dBu
•    Output impedance: 30 Ohm

    UFX+
•    Maximum output level at 0 dBFS, High: +19 dBu
•    Output impedance: 2 Ohm
•    Max power per channel @ 32 Ohm load, 0.1% THD: 210 mW (2.6 Vrms, +10.5 dBu)

Converter latency: AD unchanged, 12 samples. DA down from 28 (UFX) to 7 samples (UFX+).

UFX+ is on my hit list for as soon as it's available in the US.  My GC Pro guy is telling me late Summer to early Fall.

Nice! I'm sold :-).

Thank you, Matthias, for taking the time to post this. I really appreciate it!

In theory, yes. In practice, it really does not matter much, if at all.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Not really. You are only "losing" about 6 bit of theoretical resolution here, which leaves you with something a good deal better than CD standard... Also, when using analog outs, you could reduce the analog output level by using the -10 dBV setting.

That would depend on the monitors' converters. Is there no level control on the monitors at all? Their analog variety seems to have that.

No difference that way.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Setting them perfect is of course very challencing,  but on the other hand sitting a few cm off centre has more impact ;-) . If the pots  on the speakers have any indications, use those and don't worry.... And thinking they might be set perfect in the factory.... I would not put my money on that. If you want to be fairly accurate, set up a microphone dead centre and use a test tone.
Cheers
Vincent

While waiting for this UFX + release, I purchased a Babyface Pro to fill in a few gaps.  This " surprise " created a wind from the monitors that blew in my face like a breezy day.  I'm guessing my real surprise is that I didn't kill these monitors!

Hi RME-Crew,

it's july now - still waiting for the UFX+ to come. Is there an official release termin? Would be great to know!

thanks and greetings
J

No.