1 (edited by Deny 2016-10-29 04:20:15)

Topic: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Hi there,

My Behringer X-Touch Mini arrived today and I was baffled to realize I couldn't control my RME Fireface UCX with it - well, at least not the way I wanted to. Let me just start by saying I truly HATE Mackie Control protocol, I think it's stupid, unflexible and even for "midiots" it's a total disservice because it's supposed to be "plug and play" but has near zero customization options.

Here's what I initially wanted to do:
- Map the 3 first encoders to AS 1/2, AN 7/8 and AN3 hardware outputs faders;
- Map the 3 buttons right below those encoders to mute/unmute those 3 hardware outputs.

Seems simple enough, huh? After all, any studio worth its salt has multiple monitoring options that we want to be able to switch for mixing and mastering, it doesn't get more basic, useful and essential than this.

But as far as MC I couldn't come up with a solution to implement what I wanted. Even in standard mode it's not an easy task, but after a lot of tweaking and hacking I've finally come up with a solution that works and am going to share it with you guys.

So for that particular example, here's what can be done:

Instead of mapping mute buttons, which is complicated because the same MIDI channel (1) and CC messages are used for either HW Inputs, Playback and HW Outputs depending on cycling through those 3 channel groups using another MIDI CC message, what I did was store 3 snapshot mixes, each one of them with one of the 3 HW outputs unmuted, because those are directly assignable so the 3 buttons can be used as "click to select output" which is actually kinda nice.

Mix 1 (main monitors): AS 1/2 unmuted, AN 7/8 muted, AN 3 muted
Mix 2 (headphones): AS 1/2 muted, AN 7/8 unmuted, AN 3 muted
Mix 3 (Auratone): AS 1/2 muted, AN 7/8 muted, AN 3 unmuted

After storing your desired Mix Snapshots, fire up the Behringer X-Touch (note you can't open the X-Touch for programming if it's assigned to TotalMix, you need to either unassign it first or disable MIDI Control under Options).

Go to the "ENCODERS" tab, and enter the following values:
1) PUSH
   - EN1: Channel 1, Type Note, F#2, 0, 127
   - EN2: Channel 1, Type Note, G2, 0, 127
   - EN3: Channel 1, Type Note, G#2, 0, 127

2) TURN
   - EN1: Channel 9, Type CC, CC112, 0, 127
   - EN1: Channel 9, Type CC, CC108, 0, 127
   - EN1: Channel 9, Type CC, CC104, 0, 127

Go back to the "GLOBAL" tab, select "TO HARDWARE - Dump A".

Open TotalMix and under Options -> Settings set MIDI In to "X-TOUCH MINI". Leave "Enable Protocol Support" checked under "Mackie Control Options"

Make sure that "Enable MIDI Control" is turned on in the Options menu.

Done, you can now push an encoder to select an output and turn it to set the volume for that channel!

2 (edited by Deny 2016-10-29 04:38:07)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

As the OP thread title says, I'm also going to share my findings on the MIDI control mappings for the Fireface UCX.

GLOBAL
MIDI Channel 1
Note G 1   : Global Solo
Note Ab 1  : Global Mute
Note A 1   : Show Trim

Note Gb 2  : Mix 1
Note G 2   : Mix 2
Note Ab 2  : Mix 3
Note A 2   : Mix 4
Note Bb 2  : Mix 5
Note B 2   : Mix 6
Note C 3   : Mix 7
Note Db 3  : Mix 8

==============================================================================
Note E 1   : Cycle Section Selection for Mute / Solo Actions (*)
Note F 1   : Cycle Section Selection for Mute / Solo Actions (*)
==============================================================================
The following section depends on the selected section using F 1 / E 1 notes as described above
(Hardware Inputs, Playback, Hardware Outputs). I find this way of controlling mute and solo rather cumbersome, but since I've discovered how it works here it is.
==============================================================================
    - HW Inputs
    Note Ab -2 : AS 1 Solo
    Note A -2  : AS 2 Solo
    Note Bb -2 : ADAT 3 Solo
    Note B -2  : ADAT 4 Solo
    Note C -1  : ADAT 5 Solo
    Note Db -1 : ADAT 6 Solo
    Note D -1  : ADAT 7 Solo
    Note Eb -1 : ADAT 8 Solo
    Note E -1  : AS 1 Mute
    Note F -1  : AS 2 Mute
    Note Gb -1 : ADAT 3 Mute
    Note G -1  : ADAT 4 Mute
    Note Ab -1 : ADAT 5 Mute
    Note A -1  : ADAT 6 Mute
    Note Bb -1 : ADAT 7 Mute
    Note B -1  : ADAT 8 Mute

    - Playback
    Note Ab -2 : SPDIF Solo
    Note A -2  : AS 1 Solo
    Note Bb -2 : AS 2 Solo
    Note B -2  : ADAT 3 Solo
    Note C -1  : ADAT 4 Solo
    Note Db -1 : ADAT 5 Solo
    Note D -1  : ADAT 6 Solo
    Note Eb -1 : ADAT 7/8 Solo
    Note E -1  : SPDIF Mute
    Note F -1  : AS 1 Mute
    Note Gb -1 : AS 2 Mute
    Note G -1  : ADAT 3 Mute
    Note Ab -1 : ADAT 4 Mute
    Note A -1  : ADAT 5 Mute
    Note Bb -1 : ADAT 6 Mute
    Note B -1  : ADAT 7/8 Mute

    - HW Outputs
    Note E -1  : AS 1 Mute
    Note F -1  : AS 2 Mute
    Note Gb -1 : ADAT 3 Mute
    Note G -1  : ADAT 4 Mute
    Note Ab -1 : ADAT 5 Mute
    Note A -1  : ADAT 6 Mute
    Note Bb -1 : ADAT 7/8 Mute   
==============================================================================


HARDWARE INPUTS
MIDI Channel 1
CC16 : Mic 1 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC17 : Mic 2 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC18 : AN 3 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC19 : AN 4 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC20 : AN 5 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC21 : AN 6 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC22 : AN 7 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC23 : AN 8 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right

CC102 : Mic 1 Fader : 0 - 127
CC103 : Mic 2 Fader : 0 - 127
CC104 : AN 3 Fader : 0 - 127
CC105 : AN 4 Fader : 0 - 127
CC106 : AN 5 Fader : 0 - 127
CC107 : AN 6 Fader : 0 - 127
CC108 : AN 7 Fader : 0 - 127
CC109 : AN 8 Fader : 0 - 127
CC110 : SPDIF L Fader : 0 - 127
CC111 : SPDIF R Fader : 0 - 127
CC112 : AS 1 Fader : 0 - 127
CC113 : AS 2 Fader : 0 - 127
CC114 : ADAT 3 Fader : 0 - 127
CC115 : ADAT 4 Fader : 0 - 127
CC116 : ADAT 5 Fader : 0 - 127
CC117 : ADAT 6 Fader : 0 - 127

MIDI Channel 2
CC102 : ADAT 7 Fader : 0 - 127
CC103 : ADAT 8 Fader : 0 - 127


SOFTWARE PLAYBACK
MIDI Channel 5
CC102 : AN 1 Fader : 0 - 127
CC103 : AN 2 Fader : 0 - 127
CC104 : AN 3 Fader : 0 - 127
CC105 : AN 4 Fader : 0 - 127
CC106 : AN 5 Fader : 0 - 127
CC107 : AN 6 Fader : 0 - 127
CC108 : AN 7 Fader : 0 - 127
CC109 : AN 8 Fader : 0 - 127
CC110 : SPDIF L Fader : 0 - 127
CC111 : SPDIF R Fader : 0 - 127
CC112 : AS 1 Fader : 0 - 127
CC113 : AS 2 Fader : 0 - 127
CC114 : ADAT 3 Fader : 0 - 127
CC115 : ADAT 4 Fader : 0 - 127
CC116 : ADAT 5 Fader : 0 - 127
CC117 : ADAT 6 Fader : 0 - 127

MIDI Channel 6
CC102 : ADAT 7 Fader : 0 - 127
CC103 : ADAT 8 Fader : 0 - 127


HARDWARE OUTPUTS
MIDI Channel 1
Note Gb 1  : Main Mono
Note D 2   : Speaker B
Note A 5   : Main Dim

MIDI Channel 9
CC102 : AN 1 Fader : 0 - 127
CC103 : AN 2 Fader : 0 - 127
CC104 : AN 3 Fader : 0 - 127
CC105 : AN 4 Fader : 0 - 127
CC106 : AN 5 Fader : 0 - 127
CC107 : AN 6 Fader : 0 - 127
CC108 : AN 7 Fader : 0 - 127
CC109 : AN 8 Fader : 0 - 127
CC110 : SPDIF L Fader : 0 - 127
CC111 : SPDIF R Fader : 0 - 127
CC112 : AS 1 Fader : 0 - 127
CC113 : AS 2 Fader : 0 - 127
CC114 : ADAT 3 Fader : 0 - 127
CC115 : ADAT 4 Fader : 0 - 127
CC116 : ADAT 5 Fader : 0 - 127
CC117 : ADAT 6 Fader : 0 - 127

MIDI Channel 10
CC102 : ADAT 7 Fader : 0 - 127
CC103 : ADAT 8 Fader : 0 - 127

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

is EQ in TotalMixFX controllable via MIDI?

4 (edited by ramses 2019-04-12 06:52:19)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Wondering about 2 things, could you kindly explain ?

Why are there so many differencies to the handbook ?
And why is this list longer than in the handbook on page 71 ?

To put one example:
Your list: Note Gb 2  : Mix 1
Handbook: Snapshot 1: #F 3

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

jaynyc wrote:

is EQ in TotalMixFX controllable via MIDI?


Did you find your answer?

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

jaynyc wrote:

is EQ in TotalMixFX controllable via MIDI?

No, only via the OSC protocol or Totalmix Remote.

Regards,
Audio AG Support

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Hey there,

The Totalmixer expects simple CC's for the faders and send at the same time pitchbend back to the control unit.
Should that not be the same?
I would need an crazy amount of single mappings to translate it in a understandable format for my Midi Twister.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hjm694qykrbzx … k.mov?dl=0

I just checked a few:

102 on Ch 9 moves the left Fader in the lower row and the feedback coming from TMix is Pitch on Ch 6 and Sysex Ch 1

108 on Ch 9 moves the third Fader in the lower row and the feedback coming from TMix is absolutely the same like before

111 on Ch 9 moves the first Phones Fader in the lower row and there is no feedback at all


My goal is, to get a propper feedback for my DJ Tech Midi Twister Fighter.
When I change the Presets of the Totalmixer, the LEDs should show the new current state of faders and move it from there current positions.

8 (edited by vvilms 2021-06-17 06:55:49)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

So as I've run out of snapshots, I'm curious to know how one might go about adjusting faders for sub-mixes via MIDI or OSC. I don't see anything about changing the hardware output the faders ("Bx yy zz") are set to address (ie. page 87 of the UFX+ manual).

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Hello.  Looking for midi command to be able to assign a button to enable/disable MUTE GROUP 4 please?

10 (edited by extracurriculars 2021-11-28 08:29:40)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

thank you so much for this workaround!

drives me nuts that I can't have dedicated mute buttons though. would be soooo helpful.

if they could just implement a special midi cc for mute on Phones and Main I would be so happy. Fine to use mackie control for the rest, but those 2 should have their own dedicated commands.

A nice alternative if you're only using 2 main ouputs instead of 3 is to use Speaker B to switch back and forth instead of the snapshots. Though you can't set your submixes independently when you do that.

11 (edited by ekg 2022-04-14 22:08:01)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Hey fellas,
I use Midi remote control in my rig ALL the time. I wanted to have a look at the solo function, because that would be super useful. The documentation of Midi remote in RME's manual is somewhat unsatisfying. so I tested and tested and now I want to share my findings.
GOOD NEWS:
Indeed is it possible to control Solo & mute via midi.
the downside of this is, that there is no "hardwired" Midi command to a specific tracks.
The logic inside Totalmix is different and very flexible.
Midi Control of Sends and Mutes are ALWAYS referring to a "BANK" of 8 channels. Just like you would control them via a Mackie Control or something similar, where you have 8 faders.
you have midi commands to move that bank around and you can visualise them, when you turn on the midi out. I'll attach a screenshot.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HmEm4Y5joesHCqyY1UeRTcgJMgnqQpfL/view?usp=sharing

Here are my findings in an excel sheet and a pdf with the corresponding Midi Commands
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … sp=sharing

I was confused with the Midi Note naming, the official syntax is one octave higher than in Ableton Live. So, a F#2 in the manual is a F#1 in Ableton.


little sidenote about faders:
Same goes for fader control and CC's: they are not fixed. They are always reflecting what visible in the Totalmix GUI. So if you change the Channel Layout and hide tracks, everything moves to the left..... (I hope that is clear enough)

@RME: Are there more "hidden" MIDI Commands? To build a remote which would be bullet proof, it would nessecary to "reset" the selected bank. Like E7: Move selected Bank to Hardware Input 1. I could not find any "fixed" reference point.

12

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

I don't see 'hidden' MIDI commands. All this is built on Mackie protocol, so there is no surprise on what you discovered  Mackie requires a NDA (not sure if that is still the case). So we can not disclose all the Mackie specific details. Even OSC support is mainly built on this Mackie bank design.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

13 (edited by ekg 2021-12-16 12:54:01)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Thank you Matthias for your reply.
Now that you point it out that the midi remote is based on the Mackie Protocol it makes perfectly sense.
But the Midi commands for MUTE & Solo, moving selected channels etc are not mentioned or explained in the manual. That is why I said hidden....

And I wondered if there are more commands implemented from the Mackie Protocol other than mentioned in the manual.... (e.g for Notes E4-A6)

14

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Definitely. And I just explained why. We dared to publish the most easy to find and defined MIDI notes as those can't be covered by an NDA whatsoever. But had to stop there.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

As @Deny figured out ...

Deny wrote:

Note E 1   : Cycle Section Selection for Mute / Solo Actions (*)
Note F 1   : Cycle Section Selection for Mute / Solo Actions (*)

... TotalMix maintains a concept of "Focus" (my term) on one of the three groups of channels (Hardware Inputs, Software Playbacks, and Hardware Outputs). The MIDI commands Note On E2 and Note On F2 (with C4 = Middle C = MIDI 60) change the focus to the next / previous group.

Many of the commands found by @Deny (and more that I have located) operate on the channels in the group that currently has focus.

Question is: Is there any visual feedback on the TotalMix interface that indicates which group currently has focus??

Clint Goss - 2xBF Pro FS, UCX II, UFX II; 3xWin10Pro22H2
WindSynth:Sylphyo Cantabile Ableton Push3S

16

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Deny wrote:

Question is: Is there any visual feedback on the TotalMix interface that indicates which group currently has focus??

+1 !
this would be of high interest for me!!
or a "reset to first channel, first row" would be also perfect!

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Well, @ekg, I've been working on my own spreadsheet, collecting info from a (meager) number of sources.

I noticed that the spreadsheet you linked to on your Google drive is no longer a valid link ... could you provide an updated link to your latest XLS? I will do likewise when I've got mine in publishable shape ...

At this point, I'm really going for auto-control from a live performance DAW (Cantabile) to I can basically switch various instruments into and out of "TotalMix Direct Monitoring" mode - in order to minimize latency. (I'm doing the Rig-setup for the piano guy, who is pretty sensitive to latency ...) ... So, it is likely I can get away with using snapshots rather than fine-grained control over every item.

Clint Goss - 2xBF Pro FS, UCX II, UFX II; 3xWin10Pro22H2
WindSynth:Sylphyo Cantabile Ableton Push3S

18

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Clint Goss wrote:

Well, @ekg, I've been working on my own spreadsheet, collecting info from a (meager) number of sources.

I noticed that the spreadsheet you linked to on your Google drive is no longer a valid link ... could you provide an updated link to your latest XLS? I will do likewise when I've got mine in publishable shape ...


Oh yes, I had a major google drive meltdown. all my shared links are gone..... But I update mine in the post obove.

19 (edited by Clint Goss 2022-04-26 11:01:29)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

I've just done some testing, and it seems that TotalMix does not take any action on Note On messages.

It looks like, based on my limited testing, that only a Note Off command is required to trigger an event (I'm working with Snapshot-Change actions).

Clint Goss - 2xBF Pro FS, UCX II, UFX II; 3xWin10Pro22H2
WindSynth:Sylphyo Cantabile Ableton Push3S

20

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

that is strange.
Do you have the protocol support enabled? That did the trick for me once.
If it is not, it does not react to the snapshot commands and mute etc....

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

I do have Protocol Support enabled. And snapshot commands are working.

It's just that I found out that TotalMix responds only to Note Off commands (aka Note commands with Velocity=0). TotalMix seems to ignore Note On commands (i.e. Note commands with Velocity > 0).

Clint Goss - 2xBF Pro FS, UCX II, UFX II; 3xWin10Pro22H2
WindSynth:Sylphyo Cantabile Ableton Push3S

22 (edited by GKrazzhoopper 2022-06-29 23:39:56)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

I don´t get the point... With the help of you I finally realise my problem. It seemed to be impossible to set mute/solo buttons to a midi controller well. And now I finally have to realize: It is impossible indeed!

The "focus concept" is never mentioned (instead of here) and with all the possibillities of 16 midi channels I cannot understand, why we couldn´t have all keys for each midi channel or just an "click and move" remote solution like in most DAWS. I have to change the focus in the TotalMix window instead of simply mute or solo my channel on my midi controller. Honestly? I feel kind of anger for that solution at an highend Interface. Please patch it...

UFX2, TD27KV2, Reason 12, MPK249, MS2000, DT770M, AT2020, LCT140 Air (stereo bundle), GT-3

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Do I understand correctly that I can't hard-wire knobs on a midi controller to get an analog mixer circuit with sends? something like this: I want to have 3 knobs that send the signal from mic input 1/2 to outs 3/4, 5/6, 7/8 (outs rme goes to pedal inputs). three sends to different effects pedals, one stereo pair. or one mono channel, but the point is to have 3 sends, always, on certain inputs. I planned to use the novation launchcontrol xl through the kenton usb host converter.

I don't understand how should I select the output to which I want to send the incoming signal?

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Hi all! Greatly appreciate all the information shared here thank you!

I'm really enjoying controlling TotalMix FX using the ARC USB and various MIDI controllers for live shows, but one thing I'm stuck on is the MuteFX command. As far as I can find there is no simple MIDI command for this function - if anyone knows of this could you please share!

Interestingly, this function is available on the ARC USB as SysEX F0 00 20 0D 70 50 00 01 20 F7, so I figured I could use a MIDI Translator program (BOME) to convert MIDI CC to SysEx to enable MuteFX on other controllers.

So far I have no luck in being able to get this to work. MIDI Monitor is showing that indeed SysEx F0 00 20 0D 70 50 00 01 20 F7 is being sent via BOME Virtual Port when I trigger a MIDI CC on my Monogram controller, and TotalMix FX is listening to both Monogram and BOME for incoming messages.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Best, Olly.

25 (edited by Manuel 2023-04-20 01:03:08)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Is there any way to toggle Mute groups via MIDI? The corresponding command is available for USB ARC, but I want to do it using my existing MIDI controller.

It's unfortunate RME does not make so many functions MIDI-mappable —probably an attempt to sell more ARC USBs. Meanwhile, the USB ARC is a device that could potentially be extremely versatile but RME chose to design it in such a way that it can only control TotalMix, instead of allowing buttons to be configured to transmit regular MIDI CC, note, etc messages. I was on the fence of buying one but eventually chose not to because I can't warrant the desk space.

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

So I’m in the process of preparing a quadraphonic set + would like to issue different panning states between songs.

The tracks I’d like to do so for are coming in via MADI, which Deny’s notes don’t seem to extend to in a clear way:

Deny wrote:

HARDWARE INPUTS
MIDI Channel 1
CC16 : Mic 1 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC17 : Mic 2 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC18 : AN 3 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC19 : AN 4 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC20 : AN 5 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC21 : AN 6 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC22 : AN 7 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC23 : AN 8 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right

I’ve tried incrementing CC #’s, as well as channel #’s, to no avail, and was wondering if anyone else has thoughts.

Thanks for your time.

27 (edited by Manuel 2023-09-11 09:28:08)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

vvilms wrote:

So I’m in the process of preparing a quadraphonic set + would like to issue different panning states between songs.

The tracks I’d like to do so for are coming in via MADI, which Deny’s notes don’t seem to extend to in a clear way:

Deny wrote:

HARDWARE INPUTS
MIDI Channel 1
CC16 : Mic 1 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC17 : Mic 2 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC18 : AN 3 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC19 : AN 4 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC20 : AN 5 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC21 : AN 6 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC22 : AN 7 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC23 : AN 8 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right

I’ve tried incrementing CC #’s, as well as channel #’s, to no avail, and was wondering if anyone else has thoughts.

Thanks for your time.

If you don't need continuous control i.e. you just need to recall fixed values, you will have better luck using TotalMixFX Snapshots which can be recalled via MIDI, assuming you don't need many (max is a measly 8).

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Manuel wrote:

If you don't need continuous control i.e. you just need to recall fixed values, you will have better luck using TotalMixFX Snapshots which can be recalled via MIDI, assuming you don't need many (max is a measly 8).

snapshots are being used for more significant signal flow switches for aesthetic development.

pan should be simple, tho is seeming not to be. hmm

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

vvilms wrote:
Manuel wrote:

If you don't need continuous control i.e. you just need to recall fixed values, you will have better luck using TotalMixFX Snapshots which can be recalled via MIDI, assuming you don't need many (max is a measly 8).

snapshots are being used for more significant signal flow switches for aesthetic development.

pan should be simple, tho is seeming not to be. hmm

Yes it should be simple and I would like to see RME add the ability to create custom MIDI maps and to map most parameters, as well as the ability to use the ARC controller with third-party software. I would have bought the ARC controller but eventually I decided it was a waste of desk space. Besides, I think users would welcome a remote control with several rotary encoders not just one, to control multiple levels without having to push a button first.

30 (edited by vvilms 2023-09-11 18:01:21)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Manuel wrote:

Yes it should be simple and I would like to see RME add the ability to create custom MIDI maps and to map most parameters, as well as the ability to use the ARC controller with third-party software. I would have bought the ARC controller but eventually I decided it was a waste of desk space. Besides, I think users would welcome a remote control with several rotary encoders not just one, to control multiple levels without having to push a button first.

+1 for custom maps within totalmix, tho I’m also comfortable using max msp for crafting logic that speaks to a device in the way it expects.

on page 86 (of the UFX+ manual) it states that the 8 channel block under Mackie MIDI control (represented with brown labels + a midi din icon) can move horizontally or vertically, tho doesn’t state how to do so.

Would very much appreciate if anyone could clue me in to how to change the tracks in mackie MIDI focus.

cheers.

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

vvilms wrote:

So I’m in the process of preparing a quadraphonic set + would like to issue different panning states between songs.

The tracks I’d like to do so for are coming in via MADI, which Deny’s notes don’t seem to extend to in a clear way:

Deny wrote:

HARDWARE INPUTS
MIDI Channel 1
CC16 : Mic 1 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC17 : Mic 2 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC18 : AN 3 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC19 : AN 4 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC20 : AN 5 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC21 : AN 6 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC22 : AN 7 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right
CC23 : AN 8 Pan : Left (-) 63 (+) Right

I’ve tried incrementing CC #’s, as well as channel #’s, to no avail, and was wondering if anyone else has thoughts.

Thanks for your time.

Yes, i had the same point, a time ago:
Deny is right - but, maybe, he did not mention, that his findings are based on the Mackie Protocol.

It makes sense to understand what CW(Clockwise) and CCW(Counter Clockwise) means. Due to Mackie rotary endless Encoders (and "newer" Midi Specs).
Advantage1: You will never get "jumps", if you switch between the banks or busses in your sw. Thus, you can use a endless-encoder-knob for multiple functions.
Abvantage2: Professional SW/HW needs a more precise resolution. The dinosaur-MIDI Standard lets you assign 0-127=128 Values for each cc#. If you look into the Pans in TM, it offers 100 Steps to the Left and 100 to the Right (=200 Values).
Not mentioning the Volume Faders or Level meters here...
It is just my opinion, but the good old Midi Standard is more like a legacy support workaround.


I should mention at this point: I did not check the behavior of my Unit in MIDI Standalone Mode, as it is always plugged in to a Host.

So you have to enable Mackie Protocol for your Midi Controller in TMFX.
In Mackie World, you can control up to 8 Channels per controller (Plus Mastervolume). But you can move left, right, top, down (yes, not comfortable, but its the Mackie Standard).
You can assign other MIDI Controllers as Extendes to get 16 Channels at once...
-> You will see the orange channels highlited in TM FX.

If you have a endless-rotary-Poti (Knob) you can assign f.ex for 1st channel Pan (orange highlighted in TM):
on Rotation to the Left for each Step (CCW): 5 Values to Left in TM: B0 10 41 (or CH1, CC016, Value 65)
on Rotation to the Right for each Step (CCW): 5 Values to Right in TM: B0 10 01 (or CH1, CC016, Value 1)

If you have a dinosaur-Midi Controller with a "normal" Knob in Range from 0-127, like me, it depends on your Hardware...
I could achive to control the pans via midi cc#s (and some sysex/hex tweak - assigns) in my old Doepfer Drehbank (from 1992 lol). Big Respect to Doepfer at this point!
But it is always a compromise, thus my controller can only send discrete values and has a limited memory for each knob.

Here is my list, i just created for you.

https://i.ibb.co/C69GQqK/TM-Mackie-via-Midi.png

direct link for ff users:
https://imgbb.com/VxC4TdY

You can even play with SW (like Pocketmidi), to get a better understanding...
https://i.ibb.co/Hd3rtYr/pocketmidi-pan1.png

direct link for ff users:
https://ibb.co/cLVN6tN

No rocket-science, but i hope it helps some people.


regards, maggie

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Hello,
Maybe it is normal but I can't get midi messages out from my totalmix software to my streamdeck+.
I've used PocketMidi to analyse midi in/out messages.

Setup
I'm on macos. I've created 2 midi buses (SD2RME and RME2SD).
In totalmix > settings >midi>midi in : SD2RME
In totalmix > settings >midi>midi in : RME2SD
On my streamdeck, I use the midi plugin and set it to midi out=SD2RME and midi in=RME2SD.

When I rotate a knob on my streamdeck, assigned to a hardware output, I see the fader moving on totalmix and I get midi in messages in PocketMidi.
When I move the same fader on Totalmix, I get nothing on my streamdeck and no midi out messages on PocketMidi.

Is it a normal behavior ?
I f I use Mackie Control, I get both ways working. But Iwould prefer using midi protocol.

Thank you

33

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

'Normal' MIDI does not deliver feedback. TM FX is not designed to be used as general MIDI controller - makes zero sense with this product. Only OSC and Mackie protocol will give feedback as its the way they work.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

For those who are interested to dive in deeper into Mackie Protocol - here is a very good github repo with TouchOSC Templates for Mackie:

https://github.com/NicoG60/TouchMCU

I personally learned a lot from this updated documentation:

https://github.com/EMATech/TouchMCU/blo … rotocol.md

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

I'm trying to do something quite simple with my Fireface UCX 2
I want 1 fader on a midi control to set the fader volume level for the Main out
and another fader (on the same midi controller) to set the same track's fader volume but for a different submix (lets say Out 3-4)
Basically exactly how you'd have on an analog mixer 1 track being set either to main out to do an aux out
I tried the Submix link to Midi Controller 1/2/3/4 in TM
I tried the trick to have 2 windows open
But nothing works
It would be helpful to understand exactly which Channel and which CC number is mapped to each thing
if CC 102 is fader volume of track 1 in TM for main submix
what are the channel and CC numbers for the different submix ?
I find it very confusing for something that could be quite simple
thanks for your help

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

ahnatek wrote:

I'm trying to do something quite simple with my Fireface UCX 2
I want 1 fader on a midi control to set the fader volume level for the Main out
and another fader (on the same midi controller) to set the same track's fader volume but for a different submix (lets say Out 3-4)
Basically exactly how you'd have on an analog mixer 1 track being set either to main out to do an aux out
I tried the Submix link to Midi Controller 1/2/3/4 in TM
I tried the trick to have 2 windows open
But nothing works
It would be helpful to understand exactly which Channel and which CC number is mapped to each thing
if CC 102 is fader volume of track 1 in TM for main submix
what are the channel and CC numbers for the different submix ?
I find it very confusing for something that could be quite simple
thanks for your help

You will find trying to control TMFX via MIDI is a uphill battle. I think it would be great if every control in TMFX (at least every fader, pan, mute and solo) was "MIDI-learnable" and therefore mappable. The current MIDI implementation is too limited to be useful.

If you don't mind running your audio through a DAW I highly recommend you try TMFX→Reaper→TMFX using TMFX's audio loopback. I don't use Reaper as my main DAW but for this particular purpose it has proven very useful and it is rock-solid. I've used this set-up for several months now and it has opened many doors. You can set up VCA faders and recall entire or partial mixer snapthots using "SWS snapshots", and control everything via MIDI, not just the things RME lets you control.

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

ahnatek wrote:

I want 1 fader on a midi control to set the fader volume level for the Main out
and another fader (on the same midi controller) to set the same track's fader volume but for a different submix (lets say Out 3-4)

Hi,

If this is really all you need to do, you can go around the current midi control limitations of TMFX by:

1) Setting up your first fader to control your fader on submix no 1.
2) Setting up your second fader to same midi CC on another channel
3) Installing a midi router app that allows you to reroute midi using filters. Free example for mac: http://www.subtlesoft.square7.net/MidiPipe.html
4) Using that midi router to create two virtual in+out ports,
5) Routing fader 1 midi channel to virtual port 1, and route fader 2 to virtual port 2 + add a message converter to change the midi channel back to same channel that fader 1 uses.
6) Setting TMFX mixer window 1 to receive midi commands from midi router virtual port 1 only
7) Opening a new TMFX window and setting that to listen to midi commands from router port 2 only. You can even lock your midi remotes to control a single submix only, to avoid mistakenly changing the submix and controlling some wrong one.


This is just one example of how this can be done. Other examples include:

-Sending a bunch of midi messages from single controller in correct order. i.e. select submix, set fader level, go back to 1st submix. (this way you won’t easily get correct feedback to your faders, but you might be using a controller with non-motorized faders where this is not a problem, as they don’t have feedback anyway.) Your controller might not support sending multiple commands from a single fader, so extra software might also be needed. For example: https://www.bome.com/shop/bome-midi-translator-pro

-Using OSC / midi-osc mapping.

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

hi bsfreq,
i just wanted to write here, too :-)

I dont know if ahnatex uses a mac..
If so, would it not be possible without MidiPipe, just by creating different IAC Ports and/or "External MIDI Devices" in Apples AMS (where you can defina which Channels it can receive/send, etc...?

I assume he does not use a Mackie Controller...

Anyhow - The Main Out in TM is always accessible via CC7 on Ch1

And for UCX2, you need max 2 Channels per Row:

Inputs: CC102-117 Ch1 and: (if you use Mono)  CC102-117 Ch2
Playbacks: CC102-117 Ch5 and: (if you use Mono)  CC102-117 Ch6
Outputs:  CC102-117 Ch9 and: (if you use Mono)  CC102-117 Ch10

And if you map this via IAC and/or "External MIDI Devices" connected to the HW Controller, you can use all 4 "TM Controllers" with just one physical MIDI HW Controller. Of course, you have to set the "Submix linked to Controllers"-Checkboxes accordingly to the different submixes/TM Windows.

PS: ahnatek, you do not need to post twice in different threads.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

39 (edited by bsfreq 2024-06-25 22:52:04)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

maggie33 wrote:

If so, would it not be possible without MidiPipe, just by creating different IAC Ports and/or "External MIDI Devices" in Apples AMS (where you can defina which Channels it can receive/send, etc...?

Hi maggie33, good to see you active!

I’m not at my studio mac right now, so I’m not a 100% sure, but if I remember correctly, you cannot remap midi channels using IAC or AMS.

The problem here being that ahnatek wants to control the same input fader on two different submixes.
Most probably the midi controller only has one ’physical’ midi port visible to Mac / AMS, so the mac cannot differentiate the two identical incoming midi CCs of the two faders controlling the same input, without manually separating them to two different channels (/commands) first, and then remapping/rerouting them one way or another. I might be wrong, of course, so feel free to correct me at any time.
But this is why I assume that at least a midi router with basic remapping functions (or a midi translator that can add the submix change in front of fader movement) is needed in this use scenario.

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic

40 (edited by maggie33 2024-06-25 23:47:45)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Thanks bsfreq,
nice to hear you, too.

Maybe i misunderstood sth? (for me its still not 100% clear what ahnatek meant)

Controlling 3 submixes with just one controller at cc102 ch1 is no problem...

3 TM windows, 3 controllers (each of them is listening on IAC Bus 1(could be a physical device, too)).
Checkbox "Submix linked to MIDI Controller 1" for left window.
Checkbox "Submix linked to MIDI Controller 2" for middle window.
Checkbox "Submix linked to MIDI Controller 3" for right window.

https://i.ibb.co/yPWx6h8/3subs-Via1-Controller.png

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

Another Option, just came in my mind: Isnt the Trim Function exactly what you meant ahnatek? You could also set Speaker B and Link them... And/or use the Fader groups...

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

ahnatek wrote:

I want 1 fader on a midi control to set the fader volume level for the Main out
and another fader (on the same midi controller) to set the same track's fader volume but for a different submix (lets say Out 3-4)
Basically exactly how you'd have on an analog mixer 1 track being set either to main out to do an aux out

From this I assumed different levels are needed for different submixes. Basic linking can be done with fader groups, and trim mode controls them in relation to one another. Separate control is of course possible only by controlling different submixes separately.

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

bsfreq, sorry if i am wrong.

1)

so the mac cannot differentiate the two identical incoming midi CCs of the two faders controlling the same input, without manually separating them to two different channels (/commands) first, and then remapping/rerouting them one way or another

Which sw (or whatever) can seperate identical MIDI CCs, with identical Channels, coming in from the same MIDI Port (HW Controller)?

2)

From this I assumed different levels are needed for different submixes.

Me too. With the addition: The incoming Midi Messages from the HW Controller and from two different Faders/Knobs (whatever) have at least to have one different Parameter (either Channel, CC, Port, or whatever). Just to be able to seperate the Data (in whatever SW).


Trim mode can be used for relative or/and for 1-1 in-sync controlling...


---


Just an impression how you could seperate Routings by Channels in AMS:
https://i.ibb.co/df8kS1J/ams1.png

And of course, it depends on the "Quality" of the HW-Controller itself. F. ex. I love my old Doepfer Drehbank (anno 1992) as you can totaly freely assign MIDI Messages however you want for each Knob...

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

maggie33 wrote:

Which sw (or whatever) can seperate identical MIDI CCs, with identical Channels, coming in from the same MIDI Port (HW Controller)?

None. This is precisely the reason I suggested that the faders should be separated by midi channel (or midi cc) at the source (the controller)

maggie33 wrote:

Me too. With the addition: The incoming Midi Messages from the HW Controller and from two different Faders/Knobs (whatever) have at least to have one different Parameter (either Channel, CC, Port, or whatever). Just to be able to seperate the Data (in whatever SW).

Trim mode can be used for relative or/and for 1-1 in-sync controlling...

We are definitely on the same page here. (And 1-1 sync is still relative, simply 1:1 relative. wink )

If the need is there to control the inputs separately instead of relatively only, a workaround must be used.


Basically, the only thing we seem to be in slight miscommunication here is the software used to ’re-map’ and route the separated midi commands to same midi CC for different TMFX windows.

To me, it still seems that apple AMS is only able to turn on/off midi channels, and not able to reassign them, for example from channel 2 to channel 1. If this is the case, there is no point in using Apple AMS, as

1) A separate midi filter (/translator) app is then needed anyway
2) The same app that supports midi filtering/translating, can support all the routing as well, so why confuse yourself and do this in two separate places, and
3) We still don’t know if ahnatek uses Mac or PC. While AMS is only available on Mac, midi router apps and Bome software is available on both Mac and PC.

Fireface UFX+ | Fireface UFX | Babyface Pro | 12Mic

45 (edited by maggie33 2024-06-27 23:32:33)

Re: MIDI control mappings for TotalMix

None. This is precisely the reason I suggested that the faders should be separated by midi channel (or midi cc) at the source (the controller)

Yes, absolutely d'accord. I asked, just to clarify "so the mac cannot differentiate" - no MIDI sw can differentiate this, except you have a lower access to the controller... etc...

Basically, the only thing we seem to be in slight miscommunication here is the software used to ’re-map’ and route the separated midi commands to same midi CC for different TMFX windows.

My english isnt perfect - maybe i misunderstand some parts, sometimes. But we have generally the same view.
I generally prefer to avoid 3rd party apps if possible. Thats why i tired to experiment wit the AMS things.
Yes - you are right - AMS can just filter Channels, but no reassign/reroute them. 

3) We still don’t know if ahnatek uses Mac or PC. While AMS is only available on Mac, midi router apps and Bome software is available on both Mac and PC.

Absolutly.

Although i do not use "basic" MIDI for controlling TM. But was/is always inspiring to discuss/share ideas with you.

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard