1 Topic by fknchino (edited by fknchino 2017-02-14 14:28:01)

  • Registered: 2017-02-14
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Topic: Help me choose my rig :)

Hi guys, new here. I need help choosing the right suitable parts for my home studio.
After doing a bit of latency research, I stumbled across dawbench.com- which starred a HDSPe (aes i believe) as the top performer of the bunch. Which had me thinking....
At the moment I currently use a usb/dj interface (serato SL3) with a fairly low buffer setting, 6 I/O @ 24bit..48kHz, so far so good! but my external gear demands more I/O.
I personally think, 16 analog inputs, 6 or 8 analog outputs would be fit for the job, no use for any digital i/o at the moment.
Unfortunately I am budget concerned and limited in pci-e slots (Micro-ATX)
So the question is, what would be the appropriate interface/extentions?
Appreciated!
fknchino

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-02-14 18:33:38)

  • ramses
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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

To put a view examples:

PCIe based solutions:
RayDAT (PCIe) + 2x ADI-8 DS Mk III via ADAT
or
HDSPe MADI FX (PCIe) +  2 x ADI-8 QS via MADI
or
HDSPe MADI (PCIe) +  2 x ADI-8 QS via MADI

USB2/Fw based solutions:
UCX/802/UFX (USB2+Fw400) and 1x ADI-8 DS Mk III or ADI-8 QS via ADAT

USB2 based solutions:
DigiFace (USB2 bus powered) + 2x ADI-8 DS Mk III via ADAT
or
UC/UFXII (USB2) and 1x ADI-8 DS Mk III or ADI-8 QS via ADAT
or
MADIface Pro (USB2) + 2 x ADI-8 QS via MADI

USB3 based solutions:
MADIface XT (USB3) +  2 x ADI-8 QS via MADI

USB3/2 + TB based solutions:
UFX+ (USB3/2, TB) and 1x ADI-8 DS Mk III via ADAT or ADI-8 QS via ADAT/MADI

Alternatively, if you also need occasionally some preamps as well:

Octamic XTC: 8 x Mic/Line preamps, digitally controller (4x PAD, 4xHi-Z switchable)

UC/UCX/802/UFX/UFXII and 1x Octamic XTC via ADAT
or
UFX+ and 1x Octamic XTC via ADAT or MADI
or
MADIface Pro and 2x Octamix XTC via MADI
or
MADIface XT and 2x Octamix XTC via MADI
or
HDSPe MADI FX + 2x Octamix XTC via MADI

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

3 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2017-02-14 19:34:34)

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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

Low or high budget? And do you indeed have one pcie slot?
And do you need top of the heap audio quality or just good, cause 16 in HQ will of course cost you.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-02-14 21:21:35)

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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

vinark wrote:

Low or high budget? And do you indeed have one pcie slot?
And do you need top of the heap audio quality or just good, cause 16 in HQ will of course cost you.

I was tempted to ask him for budget, but then took the challenge, what could be done wink

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

5 Reply by fknchino (edited by fknchino 2017-02-15 02:20:27)

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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

ramses wrote:
vinark wrote:

Low or high budget? And do you indeed have one pcie slot?
And do you need top of the heap audio quality or just good, cause 16 in HQ will of course cost you.

I was tempted to ask him for budget, but then took the challenge, what could be done wink


Yes I do have one PCI-e slot, actually 2 but one is hidden under my graphics card - has anyone had success with long riser cables ??..
I actually am leaning towards a PCI-e rig, there's a local ad for the HDSPe AIO for cheap.
My budget is cheap, but obviously an upgrade in quality from what I'm currently working with.

I think I can possibly get away with an AIO to be honest, those breakout cables should be sufficient for now (seeing that I only currently use 6 I/O, and at some stage and purchase a ADI-8 via madi.

Thoughts?

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-02-15 08:59:26)

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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

Whats your budget ?

The AIO delivers to you:
- Analog IN       : 2 channels (requires other cable for servosymmetric inputs)
- AI4S-192 AIO : 4 channels (expansion board with servosymmetric inputs)
- ADAT IN          : 8 channels with a preamp

- Analog OUT     : 2 channels (requires other cable for servosymmetric outputs)
- AO4S-192 AIO : 4 channels (expansion board with servosymmetric inputs)
- ADAT OUT        : 8 channels with a preamp (if it has line OUTs and supports routing to those from ADAT)
(- Phones OUT    : 2 channels which I would leave for phones)

Assumed you will get a preamp which delivers to you via ADAT 8 channels IN and OUT,
then you require only the AI4S-192 AIO card, the other breakout cable to get:
- 14 analog channels IN
- 10 analog channels OUT
Which does not fully match your specification.

https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_hdspe_aio … O_220433_0                               €579
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_ai4s192_a … arch_prv_0                             €164
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_bo9632_br … H_164831_0 €58

So in this case you have to pay €801 for a solution which does not fully match your expectation,
as 2 analog inputs are missing.
And you have to handle (plug / unplug) analog input and outputs at 3 different locations:
- on a breakout cable connected to AIO
- on an expansion board connected to AIO (2nd PC slot)
- on an externap Preamp

If I were you I would look to simplify the setup. What about getting a RayDAT and connecting 2 Preamps via ADAT ?!
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_hdspe_ray … T_208766_0    €585

This could bring to you 16 inputs and 16 Outputs with either 44.1 up to 96 kHz sample frequency.
In terms of cabling you can use up to 15m ADAT cables.

You can start even with only the main RayDAT card in your PC, so that you even only require 1 PCIe slot.
This gives you already 2 ADAT IN and 2 ADAT OUT, where you can connect 2 Preamps @44.1/48.
But if you have the slot position free, directly mount the daughter card which is included, then you have 4 ADAT IN and OUT.

In terms of cabling to achieve 16 analog IN and 8 analog OUT @44.1/48 you require only 3 ADAT cables.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

7 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2017-02-15 09:39:19)

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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

fknchino wrote:
ramses wrote:
vinark wrote:

Low or high budget? And do you indeed have one pcie slot?
And do you need top of the heap audio quality or just good, cause 16 in HQ will of course cost you.

I was tempted to ask him for budget, but then took the challenge, what could be done wink


Yes I do have one PCI-e slot, actually 2 but one is hidden under my graphics card - has anyone had success with long riser cables ??..
I actually am leaning towards a PCI-e rig, there's a local ad for the HDSPe AIO for cheap.
My budget is cheap, but obviously an upgrade in quality from what I'm currently working with.

I think I can possibly get away with an AIO to be honest, those breakout cables should be sufficient for now (seeing that I only currently use 6 I/O, and at some stage and purchase a ADI-8 via madi.

Thoughts?

If you go for the AIO you get 10 in 10 out with Adat. You could go for a behringer ADA8200. Is it very good? No of course not, but more then likely good enough. What do you use the I/O for?
And yes a riser cable should work.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

8 Reply by fknchino (edited by fknchino 2017-02-15 10:24:14)

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  • Posts: 32

Re: Help me choose my rig :)

ramses wrote:

Whats your budget ?

The AIO delivers to you:
- Analog IN       : 2 channels (requires other cable for servosymmetric inputs)
- AI4S-192 AIO : 4 channels (expansion board with servosymmetric inputs)
- ADAT IN          : 8 channels with a preamp

- Analog OUT     : 2 channels (requires other cable for servosymmetric outputs)
- AO4S-192 AIO : 4 channels (expansion board with servosymmetric inputs)
- ADAT OUT        : 8 channels with a preamp (if it has line OUTs and supports routing to those from ADAT)
(- Phones OUT    : 2 channels which I would leave for phones)

Assumed you will get a preamp which delivers to you via ADAT 8 channels IN and OUT,
then you require only the AI4S-192 AIO card, the other breakout cable to get:
- 14 analog channels IN
- 10 analog channels OUT
Which does not fully match your specification.

So in this case you have to pay €801 for a solution which does not fully match your expectation,
as 2 analog inputs are missing.
And you have to handle (plug / unplug) analog input and outputs at 3 different locations:
- on a breakout cable connected to AIO
- on an expansion board connected to AIO (2nd PC slot)
- on an externap Preamp

If I were you I would look to simplify the setup. What about getting a RayDAT and connecting 2 Preamps via ADAT ?!


This could bring to you 16 inputs and 16 Outputs with either 44.1 up to 96 kHz sample frequency.
In terms of cabling you can use up to 15m ADAT cables.

You can start even with only the main RayDAT card in your PC, so that you even only require 1 PCIe slot.
This gives you already 2 ADAT IN and 2 ADAT OUT, where you can connect 2 Preamps @44.1/48.
But if you have the slot position free, directly mount the daughter card which is included, then you have 4 ADAT IN and OUT.

In terms of cabling to achieve 16 analog IN and 8 analog OUT @44.1/48 you require only 3 ADAT cables.


Thanks for being on point Ramses!
My budget is cheap - A few hours ago I was offered 395eur for a HDSPe AIO and it just so happens I'm a sucker for quality gear at a good price.
I'm sure I can sacrifice 2 inputs..
What worries me is that I had a bad experience in the past with ADAT.. UAD Apollo (rackmount) / Alesis AI3 AD/DA via ADAT.
I vaguely recall the sound being a bit thin and harsh.

On the flip side I'm very excited to the low latency RME has to offer + 96kHz sample rate as I've been stuck on 24/48kHz and also the fact that I get to further utilize my PC

The next step is to find an expansion board, possibly make my own breakout cable - **any limitations on lengths? and finally a decent AD/DA..

Keeping in mind that my setup, is only strictly for home where I can leave my synths and samplers connected in peace.

  • vinark
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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

I have all 3 adat ports in use of my hdsp9652 without any problems so I wouldn't worry about rme adat!
If it is for synths and samplers the behringer will be 100% ok. None of your (or mine) synths or samplers will have a better then -100db noise level. If you want to use  96khz on adat it is only 4ch on the AIO. And the behringer doesn't go beyond 48khz anyway.
If you want 96khz the IO boards are your best options.
If like me you are on a budget, being realistic is very important. Spending big money on 96khz and or very HQ converters might be important to impress clients (if you own a studio) but will not have significant audible audio quality improvements. Of course people who have spend the money will disagree.....

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2017-02-14
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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

vinark wrote:

I have all 3 adat ports in use of my hdsp9652 without any problems so I wouldn't worry about rme adat!
If it is for synths and samplers the behringer will be 100% ok. None of your (or mine) synths or samplers will have a better then -100db noise level. If you want to use  96khz on adat it is only 4ch on the AIO. And the behringer doesn't go beyond 48khz anyway.
If you want 96khz the IO boards are your best options.
If like me you are on a budget, being realistic is very important. Spending big money on 96khz and or very HQ converters might be important to impress clients (if you own a studio) but will not have significant audible audio quality improvements. Of course people who have spend the money will disagree.....

Nice.
Which behringer do you have?
Also..

Question for all, I can't find information specifically the breakout cables that come with the HDSPe AIO.
I understand that there is one dedicated to analog I/O and one for digital.
My monitors take XLR connections, afaik all I see is 4 RCA connections, as a potential main L/R output.
Could someone help me verify this?

11 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2017-02-15 15:20:04)

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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

The unbalanced is included, the balanced is a separate purchase or DIY job. I believe the pins are in the manual, although there is no problem connecting the unbalanced to your monitors.
I have no Behringer (except a headphones amp) but I have heard the ADA8200 and it is fine to my ears and in the review by SOS.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2017-02-14
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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

vinark wrote:

The unbalanced is included, the balanced is a separate purchase or DIY job. I believe the pins are in the manual, although there is no problem connecting the unbalanced to your monitors.
I have no Behringer (except a headphones amp) but I have heard the ADA8200 and it is fine to my ears and in the review by SOS.

I've been mainly working with RCAs anyway. So just to confirm, the analog breakout cable consist of unbalanced I/O?
Thanks

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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

The one that is included when bought new, yes. If you buy second hand maybe the seller bought balanced?
http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/cables.php second row

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

Question, can I have 2 AI4S in the system?

  • Registered: 2020-08-29
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Re: Help me choose my rig :)

fknchino wrote:

Yes I do have one PCI-e slot, actually 2 but one is hidden under my graphics card - has anyone had success with long riser cables ??..

Thoughts?

That's interesting.......

If I have an HDSPe MADI FX card taking up a full PCIe 3.0 x16 slot but it only uses 1 lane will it work equally well on a PCIe x1 mb connection with some kind of riser cable or riser card??