1 (edited by Ed Driscoll 2017-09-14 22:27:12)

Topic: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

Hi there,

I'm planning to string some RG6 through the walls of my small project studio (a control room built around the UFX+, an ISO booth, and a guest room that has tie-lines for occasional recording) for MADI and have a few questions:

1. Will two Fireface UFX+s connected together via MADI "talk" to each other? Will the second unit's inputs and outputs (such as the headphone volume) show up on the main TotalMixFX control panel?

2. Will using an BNC to F-Pin adapter (such as these: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss … connector) still transmit data?

I've strung loads of RG6 for video over the years, but haven't had much experience with BNC connectors, so any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ed

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

Hi all,

I realize these are probably basic questions, but I have contractors coming next week to string cable, so any advice to help me (and them) do it right would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ed

3

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

1. Are both UFX+ beside the computer and connected to it? Then you will have two TM FX windows. There is no internal data connection between them.

2. That works.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

4 (edited by ramses 2017-09-16 08:03:10)

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

Ok good questions and answers, but I would like to know the big potential or maybe limitation of MADI.
So it would be very kind if you could also answer these questions, many thanks.

1. But could you route i.e.  ADAT IN 1..8 -> UFX+1 -> MADI 1..8 -> UFX+2 -> Analog 1..8 ?

2. I also thought about it whether I could use MADI channels between the 2 UFX+ that I have
for my "Guitar Rig" setup instead of ADAT to reduce the amount of cables.
So could I wire: UFX+1 -> XTC -> XTC -> UFX+2 ?

3. Then both UFX+ would be on a bus where i.e. XTC are connected to.
Lets assume a Mic signal is there from XTC1 Channel 1.
Could I theoretically record it via UFX+1 and via UFX+2 on the other hand ?

4. How is it with latency compensation ? Does the automatic compensation also work for the 2nd UFX+ ?
Between UFX+1 and the 2 XTCs there is automatic latency compensation configured.
Or is it with 2 recording interfaces on the same bus eventually required to configure it manually.
Is compensation then active also for signals that I send i.e. from the 2nd UFX+ ?

5. Would / could this be a proper way to record signal from up to 8 XTCs on the MADI bus
from each of the 2 UFX+ if they are connected to 2 different computers ?
Kind of "Durec flavour" for safetiness in a different way
by recording XTC channels with 2 different UFX+ / PCs ?

6. Variant of question 5.
You have a studio with 4 recording rooms (2 XTCs per room)
2 recording engineers: one with a Windows PC and one with an Apple computer, each PC has an UFX+ connected
You connect all PCs and XTCs to a ring with MADI
CR= Control Room
RR= Recording Room
CR1................RR1.................RR2................RR3..................RR4.................CR2
UFX+1------>XTC1->XTC2----->XTC3->XTC4----->XTC5->XTC6----->XTC7->XTC8------->UFX+2
(PC)+____________________(UFX+ to UFX+ closes the ring)__________________(Apple)
Would such a setup work, that you can share i.e preamps between 2 different Recording PCs ?

I hope that I have then fully understood MADI besides other areas like MADI routers and routing wink

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

5

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

You seem to not have answered my question. What is the main purpose of using 2 units? Both units at one computer because you need so many channels, or one computer with one UFX+ and the other one sitting somewhere else, not connected via TB or USB, or the second one connected to a second computer or or or.

MADI transmits 64 channels of single speed audio plus MIDI. A UFX+ is a host which is intended to control other devices, not another host (a UFX+. Therefore there is no latency compensation). You could use a UFX+ as multichannel AD/DA converter with monitoring mixer, but that would require at least an iPad to control the UFX+ via TotalMix FX.

1. Of course.

2. If you have enough channels free on MADI to allow the required routing then yes.

3. Yes.

4. No latency compensation.

5. Well, that setup should work but...if the pass--through needed on machine 1 (for machine 2 to get the same signals) fails, then DURec itself would have been the better solution.

6 will work, but you need to set up the routing via TotalMix FX so that the required channels are passed through from MADI In to MADI Out. This can get cumbersome if the configuration changes a lot.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

6 (edited by ramses 2017-09-16 13:34:41)

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

Many thanks for taking the time Matthias to answer these very specific questions, but I learned a lot from it and at the end I have to say ..

MADI is really cool by the offered flexibility and cable length.

BTW .. 2km cable length of the MultiMode fiber.
Is this 2km between 2 devices or 2 km for the total length of the built ring ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

7

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

Per device. Every device fully recreates and reclocks the signal so another 2 km then...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

Hi Matthias,

Thanks for your replies to both my questions and Ramses' similar queries. My goal is to continue to use my UFX+ in the control room as the main recording and mixing device, and have a satellite unit in the ISO booth to use for the mic pre-amps and headphone output. I had also wanted the option of sending audio out of the satellite unit for re-recording and re-amping of parts, and occasional echo-chamber-type recording. But it sounds like perhaps something like the OctaMic XTC might be the better second unit?

9

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

It depends. The XTC is competely remote controlled from the control room, and provides 8 channels analog in and 4 channels analog out in the booth. Connected via a 64 channel bus you can also use all digital I/Os at the same time to connect further equipment to it - via ADAT and AES.

A second UFX+ would deliver 12 analog I/Os (but only 4 mic inputs), plus one AES and two ADAT. But it must be configured in the booth when used as stand-alone converter, and the mic gains can not be remote controlled over MADI from the control room.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

Where Matthias mentions remote controlling...
One of the big advantages of the XTC is, that it can be integrated as AUX device into the TotalMix FX instance of the UFX+.
By this you can change gain, phantom power, pad, instr, mono/stereo, autoset, m/s proc, invert phase ...
And this you can digitally save in snapshots. Remote controlled by MIDI over MADI.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

Hi Mathias and Ramses,

Just to confirm the bloody obvious, the OctaMic XTC does support MADI over coax, right?

Thanks,

Ed

12

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

Well, even the obvious can be overlooked when side-tracked by other questions. Sorry, the XTC is optical only. Which is the better (galvanically isolated) connection, and you should consider to add two optical cables to your installation. Otherwise a 2-way converter coax to optical is needed - the MADIface USB works like that in stand-alone mode.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

MC wrote:

Well, even the obvious can be overlooked when side-tracked by other questions. Sorry, the XTC is optical only. Which is the better (galvanically isolated) connection, and you should consider to add two optical cables to your installation. Otherwise a 2-way converter coax to optical is needed - the MADIface USB works like that in stand-alone mode.

Hi Mathias -- well, I'm glad I launched this thread! I'll order optical MADI cables for my guys to install. I was going with coax because of my own experience wiring up cable TV and satellite systems.

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

Will the Alva MADI cables be compatible with this sort of quickport jack? https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-QuickPor … ctor+black

15 (edited by ramses 2017-09-18 07:43:11)

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

Take 50/125 multimode cable. This is the more modern cable standard (compared to the older 62,5/125).
Those cables can be used also for networking and there you can achieve higher distances between devices.

Which means you can create structured cabling in a building (if required) and use the fibers then for either audio or to connect networking devices between floors like switches with optical (multimode) ports.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

16

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

If that Quickport thing is a simple adapter to have SC connectors plugged in from both sides - yes, SC is standardized and they will fit.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

17 (edited by ramses 2017-09-18 08:34:09)

Re: Basic MADI Wiring and Usage Questions

I took this OM4 SC-SC cable, for reference.

https://www.reichelt.de/LWL-Kabel/SCSCO … CSCOM4DEV1

You can use this cable as duplex cable, open the plug and change the wiring if you have only two devices.
Or you can open the plug and you have 2 single wires.

You get it in these cable length from this shop:
https://www.reichelt.de/index.html?ACTI … amp;LA=446

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13