1 Topic by pitchshift (edited by pitchshift 2018-08-30 20:57:44)

  • Registered: 2018-08-30
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Topic: Babyface Pro questions

Hi, im considering buying this one to replace my old USB interface, which is about to be discontinued drivers wise.

I have heard great things of this brand, specially that they will support the devices pretty much forever, unlike the rest of the brands which abandon perfectly fine hardware because the drivers don't get updated to work with the newer OS.

For instance my current USB interface hasn't been updated for 5 years and I doubt they will release drivers for Windows 10, so im stuck with Windows 7, which will stop getting updates next year...)

So anyway, is this true? If I invest in a Babyface Pro will I be able to keep using it forever? I don't really need much more than good, clean sound to mix, and a couple of i/o's to plug some toys.

I make electronic music so I don't really care about mic pre amp quality or having top tier tracking quality because I just click to place midi notes.

I wouldn't like to be paying this much in things I will not use, compared to say, paying much less for a Steinberg UR44 or a Focusrite 6i6. Is the sound quality much better here?

Of course these brands might abandon these products at any given time so you might be stuck with an useless brick by Windows 12... this is what made me seriously consider the Babyface Pro, increasing money I was willing to pay before I realized this (initial budget was along $300-$400 range)

My big concern with this unit however, is that I see a big knob in the center, and nothing else. This is worrying to me, as I assume the volume is controlled digitally/via software, which means that may the unit malfunction, if the volume position gets reset to 0db, your eardrums would explode, along with your headphones and monitors... not a good deal compared to having a nice independent knob for monitors and headphones. I would like detail on how the mechanism works in case the worst happens because I value my earing. I've already had a former soundcard malfunction on me and I had ringing on my ears for weeks, since then I have been using stuff that will have it's own independent knobs for volume to have always control, and this would be taking a risk since again there's only one knob there.

Finally, my headphones are 600 ohm, is this unit capable of driving them well? The other alternative I was considering is the Tascam UH 7000, i've been told it's great sound quality wise, but once again, weak drivers.

And i/o wise, I just need monitors, headphones, and to plug an Eventide 9000 which I presume I can simply connect to the ADAPT or SPDIF ports? which one doesn't matter as far as I know, they all sound the same or so I've heard, including AES/EBU etc. You can plug the thing with so many different cables.

If I ever need to plug in more toys I guess I could expland on it via mixer and patchbays?

Anyway, to sum this up:

1) Can the unit malfunction and reset its sound to maximun leading to ear damage, since there's only one knob controlling a bunch of things at once?
2) Will drivers be maintained forever to have a functional device in future Windows versions? (unlike the rest of scammer brands out there)
3) Can I plug in an Eventide 9000 and expand it's i/o capabilities? which options would you consider?


Thanks all

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2018-08-30 21:32:07)

  • ramses
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Re: Babyface Pro questions

What is your maximum budget ?

If you plan for 20y and need expandability then I would make no compromises !

I would combine either an USB recording interface or a PCIe based recording interface which supports TotalMix FX
with the high end AD/DA converter / phones preamp / DAC: the ADI-2 Pro FS.

To put a few examples:

USB based
1. UFX II and ADI-2 Pro FS
2. UFX+ and ADI-2 Pro FS if you need/want MADI
3. UCX and ADI-2 Pro FS

PCIe based
4. PCIe based: RayDAT and ADI-2 Pro FS

Optionally: get an ARC USB remote control on top, very useful.

- TotalMix FX brings you ultimate flexibility in routing and is a state of the art mixer
- UFX II is the flagship recording interface without MADI. It brings you Durec (Direct USB recording to USB disk or Stick) very handy as primary or backup recording or to use recording interface as tape deck. You have enough analog inputs and outputs and 2 ADAT IN/OUT ports for expansions. Also AES.
- ADI-2 Pro brings you best AD/DA conversion. Ideal for Speakers and Phones. If you change the output you have a slow rampup of volume to protects speakers/phones and your ears. Dynamic Loudness and 5-Band PEQ. Best converter/DAC/phones preamp

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 Reply by pitchshift (edited by pitchshift 2018-08-30 23:43:20)

  • Registered: 2018-08-30
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Re: Babyface Pro questions

ramses wrote:

What is your maximum budget ?

If you plan for 20y and need expandability then I would make no compromises !

I would combine either an USB recording interface or a PCIe based recording interface which supports TotalMix FX
with the high end AD/DA converter / phones preamp / DAC: the ADI-2 Pro FS.

To put a few examples:

USB based
1. UFX II and ADI-2 Pro FS
2. UFX+ and ADI-2 Pro FS if you need/want MADI
3. UCX and ADI-2 Pro FS

PCIe based
4. PCIe based: RayDAT and ADI-2 Pro FS

Optionally: get an ARC USB remote control on top, very useful.

- TotalMix FX brings you ultimate flexibility in routing and is a state of the art mixer
- UFX II is the flagship recording interface without MADI. It brings you Durec (Direct USB recording to USB disk or Stick) very handy as primary or backup recording or to use recording interface as tape deck. You have enough analog inputs and outputs and 2 ADAT IN/OUT ports for expansions. Also AES.
- ADI-2 Pro brings you best AD/DA conversion. Ideal for Speakers and Phones. If you change the output you have a slow rampup of volume to protects speakers/phones and your ears. Dynamic Loudness and 5-Band PEQ. Best converter/DAC/phones preamp


I said my budget initially was 300-400, but I was willing to compromise to 700 ish or whatever the Babyface Pro costs now.

I cannot afford any of these that you mentioned, unfortunately.

I don't plan to use much hardware (beside the Eventide 9000 which I get for free because a relative owns it and sometimes doesn't use it). So I just need to be able to plug in that one, my monitors and my 600 ohm headphones, anything else would be an extra, I don't really think im going to spend too much on more hardware, I don't have the space at least right now, if I want to expand that's why I asked if I could just plug a mixer or something and connect more stuff if I never need to (this probably lower the sound quality tho..)

Im not sure. The only big reason I see to buy the Babyface Pro over something cheaper like the Focusrite or the Steinberg is the driver support, if they promise to keep it update then I will probably spend the extra on the thing. This thread is mostly about the Babyface Pro btw, and how it compares to cheaper alternatives, and if the big knob thing that I mentioned is a problem or not.

I also mentioned that I don't care about recording instruments, quality of mics, good tracking and so on, I don't really play instruments at all. Honestly im not sure if you did read my initial post.

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2018-08-31 07:10:35)

  • ramses
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Re: Babyface Pro questions

pitchshift wrote:

Honestly im not sure if you did read my initial post.

Well, I made more thoughts about your setup than you are able to recognize and you simply forgot to mention that you have a hard limit on the price and what this limit is exactly.

You raied the requirement (oops not "20y") you even said "to keep using it forever".

In such a long lifetime (if electronic should survive that long) you need to plan with more buffer, as requirement usually raise over time. And if you do not want to loose money by selling / expaning you should plan in a different way.

The BBFP is IMHO too small for you. At minimum you need 2 analog I/O (stereo) for the return of the Eventide.
Then you need 4 analog outputs to send stereo to the Eventide and you may not forget your monitors.
Then you said you might need to expand, then we talk already about 4 analog I/O IN and 6 out !

I think this you forgot completely in your planning.

In regards to your idea external mixer .. forget it. The lower price models only give you a sum as output and you are right, sound quality is better with the recording interfaces in this price segment.

But one point is maybe even more important, inside of the routing matrix of the recording interface (TotalMix FX) you can route any to any and with near zero latency. This capability and flexibility you loose.

In contrast to most consumer interfaces like focusrite scarlet / clarett RME TM FX of course supports loopback functionality which also can become very handy.

In terms of 0dB jumps. Get monitors with a volume poti or dampen the signal, that 0dB doesnt blow your ears, thats the proper way to solve it. Alternatively I suggested ADI-2 Pro which is the only device which supports a slow ramp-up of volume if you plug phones or switch between phones and speakers on the front by making use of the remap-key feature.

As you mentioned phones (but not which) I though I do you something good pointing you to the best phones preamp to a still affordable price according to the features, because its not only a phones preamp (the ADI-2 Pro FS).

In regards to the BBFP you can watch this video to get an idea about the excellent optimized workflow with these devices, but I personally think like said before, I think its too little for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o4F8kb95PU

Expanding BBFP with ADDA converter via ADAT to pimp up analog I/O is too expensive.
Getting the HDSPe AIO and add on analog cards also becomes very expensive.

The best thing is you get either UC or UCX as it has already 8 analog I/O IN and OUT.

Well yeah, and now we are back to my proposals ! Simply leave out the ADI-2 Pro FS, as you can add it to the setup at any time later. The "heart of it" would be something like an RME UCX which I suggested to you, see Option b).

To sum up:
- I want to prevent that you buy too small now and later loose money by having to sell / upgrade
- if you want to connect an Eventide Stereo Outboard device, then the BBFP is already now too small, as its missing the amount of analog I/O (2IN, 4 OUT)
- Further expansions of ADDA converter for more analog I/O ports only possible via ADAT (-> ADI 8 DS Mk III), which increases the price much.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2008-03-22
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Re: Babyface Pro questions

I will focus my points on the Baby-face Pro in terms of quality.

I would say that if you do have concerns with the unit shooting up in volume that you also purchase some sort of attenuation control - for example a TC Electronic Level pilot.  Having said that I have not had any issues with the unit.

I use an 8 pre amp device with mine going into the ADAT.  This gives you a further 8 ins and 8 outs.  If your budget is low, I would look at this as a solution into he future. 

The quality of the unit is fantastic.  All electronics die with time but I doubt you will get a better length of support/updates with any other unit.

Then there is the drivers themselves.  They work flawlessly compaired to anything else I've used.  On a Mac they are so rock solid, on a PC also very much so, although I prefer the Mac for just general reliability - I can unplug it from a. Mac and the Mac just switched to internal sound with no question, Windows based PCs are less graceful in this.  The latency is brilliant for a USB device.  Coupled with it nature of being bus powered, there is little else out there that can touch this device.

You get some more bells and whistles with this other audio interfaces but what I like that keeps me with the RME is the rock solid reliability, I can crack on and create and for me it's the best there is for its size. 


If you are looking at other interfaces with your budget, you won't get such reliability but there is still lots out there.  Obviously input/output count in important.  Personally I would take my Eventide into the box and use a plugin, but this is something you need to decide on.

6 Reply by pitchshift (edited by pitchshift 2018-08-31 15:29:02)

  • Registered: 2018-08-30
  • Posts: 15

Re: Babyface Pro questions

ramses wrote:
pitchshift wrote:

Honestly im not sure if you did read my initial post.

Well, I made more thoughts about your setup than you are able to recognize and you simply forgot to mention that you have a hard limit on the price and what this limit is exactly.


I mentioned how my initial budget was $300-$400 and now I was considering the BBFP, the fact that my initial budget was so low I think shows that im not loaded with money and im just making a stretch with this. In case I wasn't clear, budget is what the BBFP costs.

The fact that I have an Eventide H9000 may be misleading to some thinking that im rich.

You mentioned that the BBFP hasn't got enough i/o for the Eventide:

The BBFP is IMHO too small for you. At minimum you need 2 analog I/O (stereo) for the return of the Eventide.
Then you need 4 analog outputs to send stereo to the Eventide and you may not forget your monitors.
Then you said you might need to expand, then we talk already about 4 analog I/O IN and 6 out !

Why do I need that much stuff? I forgot to ask my brother but I think i've seen use this thing in his smaller studio, perhaps it was teh Tascam UH 7000, which has less i/o than the BBFP. Probably was using the AES/EBU cables, then he had it connected to the computer with an ethernet cable as well and he was working on effects with a laptop, the setup was rather simple, I don't reckon he was using other cables going into the Eventide rather than these 3 (in out AES Eventide-Tascam and ethernet cable Eventide-PC)

I figured I could do something similar with the BBFP. It has S/PDIF, can't I just use this as well as the ethernet cable? Then I can work in the box. Remember that I just use plugins, im not that concerned about expanding to be honest, as long as I can use the Eventide on my DAW im set, this thing has too many options already it would take a lifetime to really master.
Latency is also not really a problem as I use a tracker/note editor which means I don't play any instruments.

So let's forget about expanding for now and let's focus on delivering good sound quality on monitors and headphones for mixing and connecting the Eventide to have fun with.

7 Reply by pitchshift (edited by pitchshift 2018-08-31 15:35:45)

  • Registered: 2018-08-30
  • Posts: 15

Re: Babyface Pro questions

strangedays wrote:

I will focus my points on the Baby-face Pro in terms of quality.

I would say that if you do have concerns with the unit shooting up in volume that you also purchase some sort of attenuation control - for example a TC Electronic Level pilot.  Having said that I have not had any issues with the unit.

I use an 8 pre amp device with mine going into the ADAT.  This gives you a further 8 ins and 8 outs.  If your budget is low, I would look at this as a solution into he future. 

The quality of the unit is fantastic.  All electronics die with time but I doubt you will get a better length of support/updates with any other unit.

Then there is the drivers themselves.  They work flawlessly compaired to anything else I've used.  On a Mac they are so rock solid, on a PC also very much so, although I prefer the Mac for just general reliability - I can unplug it from a. Mac and the Mac just switched to internal sound with no question, Windows based PCs are less graceful in this.  The latency is brilliant for a USB device.  Coupled with it nature of being bus powered, there is little else out there that can touch this device.

You get some more bells and whistles with this other audio interfaces but what I like that keeps me with the RME is the rock solid reliability, I can crack on and create and for me it's the best there is for its size. 


If you are looking at other interfaces with your budget, you won't get such reliability but there is still lots out there.  Obviously input/output count in important.  Personally I would take my Eventide into the box and use a plugin, but this is something you need to decide on.

My monitors have their own knobs on them which could save me may the BBFP malfunction, however my headphones don't.

Having independent knobs for monitors and headphones on the unit gives me so much peace of mind, I really dislike how RME doesn't, most units i've seen just have a single knob and then you are hoping nothing goes wrong.

Having to add third party stuff is far from ideal not to mention you can accidentally unplug the cable and then volume goes up.

8 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2018-08-31 16:03:15)

  • ramses
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Re: Babyface Pro questions

strangedays wrote:

I would say that if you do have concerns with the unit shooting up in volume that you also purchase some sort of attenuation control - for example a TC Electronic Level pilot.  Having said that I have not had any issues with the unit.

BTW MC wrote something regarding this topic: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

9 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2018-08-31 16:12:11)

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Re: Babyface Pro questions

pitchshift wrote:

My monitors have their own knobs on them which could save me may the BBFP malfunction, however my headphones don't.

Having independent knobs for monitors and headphones on the unit gives me so much peace of mind, I really dislike how RME doesn't, most units i've seen just have a single knob and then you are hoping nothing goes wrong.

Save your phones submix to a TM snapshot. Ensure that all snapshots have i.e. -20 dB settings, problem solved.
Never had an issue with UFX, UFX+, Octamic.

Digital control gives you the big advantage to be able to digitally save all settings which is superb for the workflow.

pitchshift wrote:

Having to add third party stuff is far from ideal not to mention you can accidentally unplug the cable and then volume goes up.

Third party stuff like what ? If you add a monitor controller then phones and monitors are behind it.
If you disconnect a cable before the monitor controller then the connection is cut -> Silence.
If you disconnet a cable behind the monitor controller then the connection is also cut -> Silence.

But as I said, I think that you do not require it at all.
Especially as 600 Ohm phones dampen the signal down anyway. 600 Ohm is a lot ..

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

10 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2018-08-31 16:20:48)

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Re: Babyface Pro questions

Look here what makes RME different ...
http://www.synthax.co.uk/latest/2016/05 … igner-rme/

Look also this thread where I compare BBFP to the competition:
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopi … 62#p133262

And again ... according to the required channel count you need anyway UC or UCX.
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_fireface_uc.htm €889
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_fireface_uc.htm €1199

I created an overview between the recording interfaces here:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 18-08-pdf/
of my blog article: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … B-MADIfac/

Here some other blog articles from me, the RME related might be of interest to learn about RME products and use cases.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … -Overview/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13