1 (edited by johnnysh 2019-04-12 17:54:29)

Topic: Too much gain from a AUDIOPHILE RIAA Preamp (GoldNote) PH10

Hello

I own a UCX and want to use it for archiving my Vinyl

I have been loaned a very high end RIAA preamp with external power supply to try with my turntable and UCX

but running into real problems, I have contacted the Italian manufacture to raise the issue about too much gain coming out of the balanced outputs which I am feeding into the UCX.

I have the goldnote PH10 RIAA preamp set to -3db (the lowest level output) and even on the low gain setting on the UCX at times I am red lighting / clipping.

when I emailed the company they stated that they gain from the preamp is quite standard 45db at MM setup, 42db with -3db gain selection. They are surprised that the sound card can not handle the balanced signals from the RIAA preamp.

they go on to say with the XLR outputs is double as per AES (Audio Engineering Society)

I'm not over impressed with the reply from the company

and does not work well with RME UCX, there just seems too much gain coming out the unit and red lighting the rme


Can anyone help please

Gold Note is supposed to be the pinnacle of italian HI FI, ????? really... there speaker start @ £34000.00

I think the designers of this preamp have not got a clue when it come to Line Levels, this is the first Item I have connected to the UCX that is uncontrollable due to too much gain.

Starting to think this preamp is a pile of rubbish @ £2000.00

any help would be much appreciated as do not want to start adding attenuators in the mix, just want the correct level coming out the GOLD NOTE PH10 going in the UCX


Very disappointed in the PH10


Oh also ended up cutting hands due to the engineering of the case work of the preamp and psu, the air vent are razor sharp,

Regards

Never Give Up In Striving For Perfection

Re: Too much gain from a AUDIOPHILE RIAA Preamp (GoldNote) PH10

Maximum input level XLR, Gain 0 dB: +10 dBu
Maximum input level TRS, Gain +0 dB: +21 dBu

Get a XLR to TRS adapter or cable.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

3 (edited by johnnysh 2019-04-12 18:17:32)

Re: Too much gain from a AUDIOPHILE RIAA Preamp (GoldNote) PH10

Get a XLR to TRS adapter or cable ???

I am using a Balanced High quality 3core screened cable XLR to stereo jack all Neutric connectors from the PH10 balanced outputs into the balanced inputs on the RME.

what is a  XLR to TRS adapter or cable ?

is this not what I am using ??


The PH10 is just like a ravaging beast gainwise, even on the RME low gain input?


but Hold On! are they not stating

when I emailed the company they stated that they gain from the preamp is quite standard 45db at MM setup, 42db with -3db gain selection. They are surprised that the sound card can not handle the balanced signals from the RIAA preamp.

surly this level is miles too high ?

TRS is Max 21db ???

Thanks

Never Give Up In Striving For Perfection

Re: Too much gain from a AUDIOPHILE RIAA Preamp (GoldNote) PH10

Ah ok, you only mentioned XLR

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

5 (edited by johnnysh 2019-04-12 18:29:29)

Re: Too much gain from a AUDIOPHILE RIAA Preamp (GoldNote) PH10

No sorry..


XLR from PH10 RIAA preamp, into Stereo JACK on the RME.

But,,, for an £2000 + audiophile RIAA preamp, this is total rubbish, who are the designers at GOLDNOTE ?

you would never never never have these kind of levels coming out of the balanced outputs going in to a mixer, preamp or sound card ???

there is only 4 gain settings on this riaa preamp -3db, 0db. +3db and +6db

the last thing I want is anymore gain !!


really poor design and the very first item that has not interfaced with the RME,

think I need to look for another RIAA preamp

Really not impressed at £2000




even at the lowest -3db output setting on the PH10 and using the low gain input setting on the RME I can not stop the RME clipping and red lighting when playing records ??? crazy


how can they state gain from the preamp is quite standard 45db at MM setup, 42db with -3db gain  ?????

Never Give Up In Striving For Perfection

Re: Too much gain from a AUDIOPHILE RIAA Preamp (GoldNote) PH10

Just curious ... what cartridge are you using in the turntable?  Rated sensitivity?

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum

7

Re: Too much gain from a AUDIOPHILE RIAA Preamp (GoldNote) PH10

You still didn't tell us which input you use (3/4 front or those on the back) and which sensitivity aka Ref Level you chose for them.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

8 (edited by johnnysh 2019-04-13 12:09:23)

Re: Too much gain from a AUDIOPHILE RIAA Preamp (GoldNote) PH10

Hello

Ok

the cartridge I am mainly testing this unit with is an Audio Technica AT440MLB spec as below

Frequency Response    20-25,000 Hz
Channel Separation    28 (dB at 1 kHz)
Tracking Force Range    1.0-1.8 grams (1.4 optimal)
Stylus Construction    0.12 mil Nude
square Micro-Linear
stylus
Recommended Load Impedance    47,000 ohms
Output    4.0 (mV, 1 kHz, 5 cm/sec)
Channel Balance    1.0 (dB at 1 KHz)
Stylus Shape    MicroLine®
Cantilever    Aluminum Pipe
Mount    Half-inch
Replacement Stylus    ATN440MLb


Coil impedance : 3,200 ohms at 1 kHz
DC resistance : 800
Load Capacitance : 100-200pF
Coil inductance (mH, 1 kHz) : 490
Dynamic compliance (x10-6 cm/dyne) : 10
Static compliance (x10-6 cm/dyne) : 40
Vertical tracking angle : 20-degree
Dimensions (mm) : H 17.3 x W 16.0 x D 28.2
Weight (g) : 6.5


I am considering investing in either the ORTOFON 2M Black or the AT VM760SLC  both at the top end of the moving magnet range of carts.


As for the RME I have tried both sets of front panel inputs, using (Stereo Jacks !! BALANCED CONNECTION !!) I prefer inputs 3&4 as the mixer panel has adition level control. I have even tried the back input connections too, all give the same results.

With the Gold Note connected via XLR balanced and on the LOWEST -3db setting, I can only use LO GAIN input setting on any of the RME input channel as the +4db & -10db is off the scale with clipping.

With PH10 Balanced outputs, even using RME LOW GAIN input SETTING, the RME is still clipping !! with all setting set to zero and there is far to much gain for the RME to handle ???

I can not turn anything more down anywhere? either on the PH10 or RME !!!!

.... the GOLDNOTE is a ravaging beast level wise on the balanced outputs, there is no way the RME can even start to handel the levels coming out these XLRs on the PH10, do Gold Note designer engineers know what they are doing incorporating these crazy output levels ????? I think not! this unit is suppose to be a preamp not.. POWER AMPLIFIER....... I'm thinking I may connect some loud speakers to the XLR outputs of this PH10, i'm sure it will drive them lol.

even the RCA non balanced seems too high,

and if I put on my high end DJ otofon night club 2 pro e cart, forget it, everything is just like a christmas tree, light clipping everywhere.

The levels from the PH10 must be sending the op amps  inside the RME straight to the power supply rails,, clip clip DC DC.

when speaking with the HI FI company this morning who kindly loaned me the PH10, they said they have not noticed any problems connecting up the balanced outputs?

but then again they are not connecting it to an RME sound card?


I may be wrong, but the levels GOLD NOTE are quoting as being standard just see massive and so over the top gainwise

or am I missing something ??

The PH10 is not a terrible sounding RIAA preamp though can only test on the RCA non balanced output, though this is not what! I want to run balanced in to the RME.

But for a £2000 turntable RIAA Phono Stage there seems to be a lot wrong with this unit! Level Wise, Sharp razor edges on the case work that have cut my fingers, the company when contacting are not helpful and don't reply back to various emails I have sent in relation to these issues.

So overall not at all impressed with Italy's Gold Note company so far,

I design electronics for a living, If i was designing this pramp, I would have incorporated variable gain control from, -10db to +10db control in 0.1db increments, it not hard with today's ICs

to have only 4 fixed gain outputs is poor at this grade of Preamp!



Regards

John




the Ortofon DJ NIGHT CLUB PRO II E Cartridge spec

Output voltage at 1000Hz, 5cm/sec.  -  8 mV
Channel balance at 1kHz  -  1,5 dB
Channel separation at 1kHz   - 23 dB
Channel separation at 15 kHz  -  15 dB
Frequency range at -3dB -   20-22.000 Hz
Frequency response  -  20-20.000 Hz +/- 1,5 dB
Tracking ability at 315 Hz at recommmended tracking force  -  80 μm
Compliance, dynamic lateral -   7 μm/m N
Stylus type  -  Special Elliptical
Stylus tip radius  -  r/R 13/25 μm
Tracking force range  -  2,0-5,0 g (20-50 mN)
Tracking force recommended  -  3,0 g (30 mN)

Tracking angle  -  20°
Internal impedance, DC resistance  -  1.000 Ohm
Internal inductance  -  580 mH
Recommended load resistance   - 47 kOhm
Recommended load capacitance  -  200-600 pF
Cartridge weight  -  18,5 g
Replacement styli units - Nightclub MkII, Nightclub E, Nightclub S

Never Give Up In Striving For Perfection

9

Re: Too much gain from a AUDIOPHILE RIAA Preamp (GoldNote) PH10

You should use the RCA output into the rear input of the UCX (RCA to TS cable, or RCA to TS adapter). At LoGain the rear input is still at +19 dBu, but the GoldNote will have 6 dB lower output level. That gives some insight that might be helpful.

Right now balanced seems to have more than +19 dBu as output level, which is unusally high and would not work with most HiFi units that typically accept up to +15 dBu. That also doesn't match the tech specs of the unit, so something is wrong here...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

10 (edited by johnnysh 2019-04-14 17:18:46)

Re: Too much gain from a AUDIOPHILE RIAA Preamp (GoldNote) PH10

Thank you for your reply,

I have almost given up with the PH10, not impressed at all, I invested a great deal of money and time in high quality leads and evaluating this phono stage.

Had really high hopes for this phono stage after reading various reviews but something is seriously wrong with the designs when you can't even interface two balanced signals together from the PH10 & RME.

This is the very first unit using Balanced outputs that I have not been able to interface in to the RME, I own a range of pro audio studio equipment most with balanced outputs, all interface with the RME perfectly.

So sadly will be giving up with the PH10 and evaluating other high end phono stages (£1000-£3000) with balanced outputs


Also would like to add goldnote has replied twice to the 5 or 6 emails I sent them regarding this issue, but has just apologized for as they put it my system not being compatible with this rare gade of phono stage. I politely replied saying it's not my system that is not compatible with the PH10, Its every studio in the whole world using RME equipment!

 

Thank you once again for your valued input

Kind Regards

John

Never Give Up In Striving For Perfection

11 (edited by dieter_michel 2023-08-05 15:38:42)

Re: Too much gain from a AUDIOPHILE RIAA Preamp (GoldNote) PH10

Found this entry purely by accident. Even if you were already occupied with this in 2019, I would like to briefly tell you about my positive experience with the Gold Note PH10. Unfortunately, I cannot understand your problem in this way.
I've been using the Gold Note PH10 for years. Also for vinyl archiving.
My chain is a Technics SL-1200G equipped with a HANA ML MC cartridge.
The PH10 with XLR symmetric is connected either to one of my Yamaha mixers or to a TASCAM recorder.
I also connect the PH10 to a Devialet Expert via RCA unbalanced. From the Devialet Expert Amp there is a USB connection to an Apple MAC PC.
I can't explain the clipping.
However, I do not have an RME device in use.