Topic: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

i am using the phone output to my denon d7200 headphone,is it worth to buy a hundred dollars usb cable for a upgrade??

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

no .. welcome to the digital world. Perform the bit perfect test, better than "every bit arrived" during USB transfer is not possible. And this you can achieve even with the cheapest cable. I would only spend a few bucks more to avoid getting a cable with cheap plugs. If you take longer cables than allowed by the Specs, then cables with better shield can help a bit, but a better shielding is something in the range of maybe $10-15 more.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

How do you perform the bit perfect test, exactly? I tried googling and all I found were the files for it..

4 (edited by N00b 2020-03-05 16:56:07)

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

exact wrote:

How do you perform the bit perfect test, exactly? I tried googling and all I found were the files for it..

See on the manuel, on page 65.

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

5 (edited by ramses 2020-03-05 16:28:45)

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

See manual chapter "bit test".

Noob was 1st wink

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Okay got it, thanks!

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Wait, so my screen's not showing anything when I play these files, which means it fails the test, yes? So what can I do then?

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Exact,

This is an indication that something in your Media Player is likely altering the data.  Volume, EQ, "enhancements", etc.   All are prime suspects. 

Look there first.  Ensure Vol set to 100%, no EQs enabled, and so on.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

exact wrote:

Wait, so my screen's not showing anything when I play these files, which means it fails the test, yes? So what can I do then?

Try to find why the test fails. smile
If you play your files on a computer, try to see how your sound output is set. On Mac OS for instance, you have one setting and all the sound will be played by all the apps at the selected sound rate on the system.
If Mac OS is set to 44.1 and you play the bit test files, only the 44.1 one will be OK smile

And if you are on a computer, check that the volume of the player is at 100%. On iTunes for instance, the Bit Test is OK only if the volume is at 100%.

ADI-2 DAC (with stock PSU) - Neumann KH 310 A monitors - Cheap USB and XLR cables

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

I'm running the files through Foobar, using ASIO with no EQ etc. and at 100% volume. Still not passing..

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Nevermind, had replaygain on, had to turn that off!

12 (edited by ramses 2020-03-05 17:18:29)

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Then you need to find out why and I am pretty sure its not the cable.
To check for USB transport errors: You can check this by opening the RME driver settings window and keep it open
and watch out the counter for any USB transport errors.

If there are no transport errors, then its not the cable, then it happens on your PC.

Maybe volume on foobar player not turned to 100%.
Maybe ASIO driver not active.
Maybe Application error, try MusicBee instead. Driver selection in foobar is a little bit more tricky compared to other products.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Nice, you found it.
But I wonder why replay gain does something on the pure wave file .. ts ts

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

exact wrote:

Nevermind, had replaygain on, had to turn that off!

That'll do it!  big_smile

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Yeah I didn't even scan the files for replaygain, I just use it for my music so I don't constantly have to be changing volume when a song changes. And as far as I know, replaygain shouldn't be affecting the bits in any sense, right?

16 (edited by Curt962 2020-03-05 18:02:01)

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

RG doesn't effect the "Data" per se, rather it raises/lowers the Avg Level of the file to conform to a standard.    Therein lies the Rub. In the Digital World, that IS an effect, and the Bit Test sees this Level Adjustment as an alteration, and fails the test.

You're fine.  Just dont RG the bit test files. EVER!  FOR AS LONG AS YOU LIVE. smile:)

Best,

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Curt, what I mean .. if you use i.e. MusicBee as player, it works as I would expect.
If there is no replay gain in the header of an audio file, he plays it unaltered at 100% volume.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Yeah that's exactly what I mean, how come it affects it even though no replaygain-value is being given to the test-files?

19 (edited by ramses 2020-03-05 18:34:42)

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Thats what I mean, foobar2000 maybe does something wrong in regards to this wink

But I do not not whether there any formal standards in regards to this, therefore I said "my expection would be ..."

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

20 (edited by Curt962 2020-03-05 23:08:02)

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

exact wrote:

Yeah that's exactly what I mean, how come it affects it even though no replaygain-value is being given to the test-files?

Exact,

My Ripping Software (dBPoweramp) allows options.   It can calculate RG, and simply attach a Tag to the file to be decoded by the player.
Or...  It can also "apply" RG to the actual data to gain the benefits of RG, for use on playerrs that cant read RG Tags.  Your Car for example.  Lastly...it can do nothing at all.   No hidden surprises downstream.

I only mention the Ripping Software as I used dbPA to convert the bitest.wav to a .flac file.   Passed just fine, thus squashing the myth that .wav is somehow more accurate.  It's not.  Had there been the slightest change to the data, I would have been looking at the "Blank Screen of Shame"

It seems that your Media Player is configured to do something of the latter sort regardless of your Wishes.   Foobar has some neat features (often in the Data Manipulation arena), but I don't know that it's a Runaway favorite for use as a media player. ...hint. Maybe a "Re-Boot" of your PC would be helpful so that your RG-Off button click actually takes effect?

You'll simply need to assess your configuration Line by Line.   Read the Help Notes too!  Instructions have great benefits. smile  "RTFI" as they often say here.

For now, your Gear is fine.  It's your player software that is highly suspect.  Look into it.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Alright thanks for the info, I'll check out MusicBee, been using Foobar for too many years anyway!

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Last year I convinced the author to support sample rate changes without issues (like hangs).
So if your music archive has content of different sample rate, no problem now.
The only thing which is not supported, if you change the ASIO buffersize during playback.
But this doesn't matter much .. well its a player, not a rock solid commercial DAW product wink

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Okay I know this is placebo, but just to make sure; there's no way my music should sound any better with the new player? Playback is ASIO with replaygain on "smart". It's stupid cause now I feel like the music sounds cleaner than before. Let me sleep well, it's just placebo, right? Different volume levels?

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Another player doesn't matter. Its the same digital transfer of AUDIO through the ASIO Driver.
And you can validate it with the Bit test (if there is no other issue by application, wrong settings).
Bad cable you can check by leaving the settings window open of the ASIO driver and by watching the CRC counter.
If it stays at zero, then you can exclude a cable issue.
If bit perfect test succeeds, then you have a bit perfect end to end communication between application up to the DAC.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, Win10 Pro 1909, Cubase, UFX+, Octamic XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS BE/R BE, RayDAT, ARC USB

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

Yeah okay, thought so. God I hate this hobby sometimes with all this placebo..

26 (edited by Curt962 2020-03-06 18:54:06)

Re: is it worth to buy a high price usb cable for a upgrade

exact wrote:

Okay I know this is placebo, but just to make sure; there's no way my music should sound any better with the new player? Playback is ASIO with replaygain on "smart". It's stupid cause now I feel like the music sounds cleaner than before. Let me sleep well, it's just placebo, right? Different volume levels?

Exact, Hang in there friend!   Of couse RG will make things sound different, because it adjusts Level!  Louder is always better. Any Hi-Fi Salesman knows this. smile

For the purposes of Bit-Test, turn that RG off!  Completely.   We dont know what your media player is actually doing with it.   If RG even breathes on your Bit Test File...it's Game Over.   The RME Bit Test is VERY exacting.  It is not some BS Audiophile "Listen and Believe" methodology that would have you believing that $2000 USB Cables, and putting your PC on "Magic Spikes"  actually did something for your data path Integrity.  Those ARE Placebos, and there are a shocking number of persons who actually believe this utter nonsense.

The RME Bit Test is serious.  Straight Science..No Guesswork.  Pass or Fail.  RME does not give  "Participation Awards".
The Data received must be IDENTICAL  to that data sent.   No in betweens.  No "Pretty Good", "Not too Bad", "Ok for the Price", or any other wishy-washy audiophile crap.

Put your Detective Hat on, and dissect the data path one layer at a time.  You'll figure it out.   You might also find that you need a PROPER Media Player...rather than a Basement Engineered, Hobbyist system...

Best,

Curt

Edit:  You'll have to forgive me somewhat, but this matter needs SOMEONE to bring a bit of Levity to the discussion. smile 

Any kid growing up in the 60's-70's  would know this.   This explains EXACTLY how Bit Test works.   Have a Laugh on me!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rsRjQDrDnY8

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic Edition"
Cables:  Red Ones, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes (2)