Topic: UFX+, Patchbays, and Brain Ache

Routing gives me brain ache. I am just not wired to fully grasp my signal path with ease. I eventually get there with an understanding of the logic. But once I set it, I forget it. Now I have changes on the horizon so need to think through this again.

I currently run all my analog i/o directly to the UFX+ and other ins to a XTC connect via madi.

As I aquire more outboard analog gear I find myself hopping behind the desk and moving wires around quite a bit.

I have convinced myself I need to add a patchbay to cut down on my cable swaps and accomodate more analog outboard gear. However, my aching brain is not sure I am taking the right approach. It will be quite an endeavor for me to rewire my studio. I want to start out on the right foot.

Here are a few mystical questions for any wizards inclined to help me out. TIA.

1. Should I go the patchbay route?
2. For those who connect their UFX+ to a patchbay, what strategy do you apply for your connections? What to what to where? Normal, half normal, thru?
3. With outboard gear that only has XLR ins and outs do you simply use cables with trs on one end and then a male/female XLR on the other?
4. Since my objective is to dynamically add or remove compressors, reverbs, eqs, etc., to a signal chain, could I be doing all this in TM as long as I have enough dedicated analog i/o?
5. Though it would be more expensive, should I consider adding a madi or adat device with say 8/16 analog i/o to connect everything and route via TM? Recommendations? Like a ADI-8 DS Mk III or Ferrofish Pulse 16 DX?

I am spinning my wheels and looking for any  guidance. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thx.

2 (edited by ramses 2020-06-25 17:34:25)

Re: UFX+, Patchbays, and Brain Ache

Hi Miguel,

I think we have a quite similar setup in terms of the RME devices that we use, e.g.: UFX+, XTC, ..
Maybe I can assist with just a few thoughts on this topic.
IMHO patch bays are a cost factor and you need to think about whether its worth to have increased costs.
You also need to consider, that some RME devices like the  M-32 Pro AD/DA converters need patch bays, because they only support the DB-25 plugs. But devices like our UFX+ and XTC do not require this (maybe only the AES IN/OUT on the XTC).

You identified mainly two general issues for you
- TM FX routing
- plugging and unplugging cables

Maybe you should consider, that not everything has to be routed through TM FX.
In Cubase you can e.g. define external effects by simply setting the input and output ports. Then Cubase even measures the RTL so that inside of Cubase the external effects can be used sample exact if I remember right.

By this approach it would be possible to you, to define every external connected device (compressor, reverb) as external effect in Cubase and you can use this as insert like you do with VSTs in every Cubase input or output channel.

This might have limitations for certain applications if you would put many external devices into a channel. You would need to check.

The way out here could be, that you might balance this (or lets say optimize for less RTL) by maybe connecting 2 or 3 external devices together and to connect this chain to a RME AD/DA converter (be it UFX+ or what not..).

TM FX routing you might only need if you want to make use of external devices in your monitor mix for: phones, monitors A/B ...

So if I were you I would think about whether you need to plug that much ... maybe plug the external devices, that do not need much plugging to the back of UFX+ or Mics that do not change often to the back of the XTC.

EDIT1: also consider, if you are mastering the final Stereo sum ir track, then whatever RTL by stacking single external cubase devices doesn't matter, for this you do not need something like a low latency monitor mix, neither in TM FX nor in the DAW.
Same if you want to connect e.g. many external music instruments like synthesizers .. there you also can only play once at once, but might want to connect them all, to have the ready for use.
Also consider that you might have projects with only few external HW as insert in your input channel or subgroup.

If you think you need also patchbays, then it could be a good solution to get exactly those devices, that
- either have the plugs already at the front, like e.g. 12Mic or
- that offer DB-25 plugs to you to use it in combination with a patch bay

MADI based solution will support this nicely, as you simply have enough channels left for connecting devices. And should there be a current of future demand for higher sample rates, then you have more flexibility in terms of remaining number of channels because of channel multiplexing (still 32ch at double speed (88.2/96)).

Another definitive advantage of MADI is the flexibility in terms of the placement of devices, shall you have one or two recording rooms.

For a Mic preamps IMHO the XTC shines, as it offers to you two phones outputs, where its very simple to route all Mic inputs to phones output 1 for checking the Mics, whether there is a signal and maybe phones output 2 to get a Mix.
Or if you have phones preamps there where you can Mix two Stereo Signals A and B as you like need, like vocals and backing track, then you have a great flexibility in terms of less cabling.

Not to mention AUX device support, to be able to store all this in TM FX snapshots.

Hope this clarifies a little bit for you.

If you have more question, don't hesitate to ask, because this is a very interesting topic.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: UFX+, Patchbays, and Brain Ache

In my opinion, a patchbay is a must.
There‘s no way I‘m crawling under the desk to patch stuff around.

I like the Redco 96 TT patchbays with D-Sub connectors. You can set normalling and grounding per Channel.

Here‘s an example on how I setup my patchbay. The goal was to have it normalled so that the most used connections are by default. Maybe someone finds it interesting/amusing:

https://ibb.co/R4NKKL7

Best,
Frank

Happy Fireface UFX+, Octamic XTC and M-32 Pro user.
http://www.stoersender-studio.ch