Topic: Dsd Native?

Iam thinking on buying the adi 2 fs dac

What I understand is when playing dsd to pcm then all volume and settings would be available.
I understand that dop is a dsd file hidden in a pcm stream.

Now by dsd direct mode ,  does this mean dop. Or does it mean reading the dsd natively.

Not that it would sound
any different.  Just curious.

2 (edited by ning 2020-06-21 06:57:35)

Re: Dsd Native?

Dsd direct is a feature provided by dac chip to bypass pcm conversion. Has nothing to do with the format you send from your computer. You are still using DOP. DOP is the only way you interface with the unit.

3

Re: Dsd Native?

Or ASIO native.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Dsd Native?

OK my bad.. forgot about windows.

If alternative setting 3 is not supported, how does asio native is implemented without DoP? In this case I assume the driver exposes native dsd interface to software programs, but still sends DoP signal to the device internally.

I might be wrong, though.  verifying is easy - In device settings -> Device Mode/DSD -> DSD detection -> set to OFF. If it no longer recognizes ASIO DSD native as DSD stream, it means the device only accepts DoP, and ASIO native is done by software emulation.

Re: Dsd Native?

according to the manual  I just read that
It can convert dsd to pcm.
It can use Dop dsd over pcm.  And it can definitely decode dsd Native.
Chapter 17.1

I think I have answered my own question

6

Re: Dsd Native?

ning wrote:

OK my bad.. forgot about windows.

If alternative setting 3 is not supported, how does asio native is implemented without DoP? In this case I assume the driver exposes native dsd interface to software programs, but still sends DoP signal to the device internally.

I might be wrong, though.  verifying is easy - In device settings -> Device Mode/DSD -> DSD detection -> set to OFF. If it no longer recognizes ASIO DSD native as DSD stream, it means the device only accepts DoP, and ASIO native is done by software emulation.

Clever clever smile

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

7 (edited by ning 2020-06-21 13:50:14)

Re: Dsd Native?

> It can convert dsd to pcm.

DAC chips in DACs play DSD stream by converting it to PCM first. Otherwise volume control won't work. Any other DAC products (based on AKM or ESS chips) that has digital volume control do exactly the same.

"Direct DSD" in your first question means bypassing PCM conversion for the DAC chip. In this case, you lose volume control.

If you are asking whehter it can convert DSD from digital inputs (such as USB) to PCM streams, and sending it to digital outputs (such as SPDIF, COAX, etc). No, it cannot do that.


> It can use Dop dsd over pcm.

Right. All digital inputs accepts DOP.

> And it can definitely decode dsd Native.

Depends on how you interpret it.

If you solely refer "DSD Native" as UAC Alternative Setting 3 such as many other USB audio interface chips (such as XMOS) support, it's NOT supporting that. It does not behave the same as many other DACs (such as XMOS based products) do.

It does support "ASIO native DSD", but in my understanding (edit: MC just confirmed my hypothesis), it's just using the RME ASIO driver to convert native DSD to DOP on your computer first, and then send the DOP signal to the unit via USB. The conversion is seamless so you don't need to care about it in Windows. For any other operating systems you can't set your music player to output "native DSD" to the unit.

So the conclusion is, NO, the unit itself cannot decode "DSD native" from the digital inputs. Only DoP. The Native -> DOP conversion is done on your computer.

Re: Dsd Native?

MC wrote:

Clever clever smile

Yeah, nice trick:)

9

Re: Dsd Native?

> the unit itself cannot decode "DSD native" from the digital inputs

'Digital inputs' would refer to AES/SPDIF, not USB. I have never seen something different than DoP used there. Which is no wonder as you only have 24 bits available to transfer data. UAC AS3 uses 32 bits.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

10 (edited by ning 2020-06-23 01:41:37)

Re: Dsd Native?

You are right.

by digital I/O I mean all interfaces that accept digital signals (USB, AES, SPDIF). none of them decode "native DSD". Some (AES, SPDIF) don't support it because no such spec is available . Some  (USB) doesn't support it because RME chooses not to.

RME documents refers digital as AES/EBU + SPDIF coaxial/optical. I would personally prefer calling USB or Firewire a digital interface as well.

Re: Dsd Native?

Ohh now I see
Thanks all for the info.