1 Topic by Keptnace (edited by Keptnace 2020-08-06 07:45:15)

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Topic: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

Hi!
I'm using a UFX as my Interface and a OctaMic II via Adat 1. I recently recorded a double mic'd instrument with one mic going through each piece of gear and noticed there was horrible phasing going on. Upon further investigation I figured out the OctaMic has a 35 sample latency. Does anyone know this problem and have an idea how to fix it within the RME system (i.e. in the hardware or totalmix)? I don't want to manually move tracks after recording or do anything in my DAW if not necessary...
Thanks in advance!

  • vinark
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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

AFAIK the only solution is to route channels that have a phase relation through the same device or 2 exactly the same devices. So either through the ufx or the octa. not both. If you have something like 2 octas, this would work since they have the same latency. This is a well known issue with using different converters/signal paths.
If impossible you might be able to use a delay compensation plugin. I think voxengo have one, you would then need too insert one on every phase related octa channel with a 35smpls preset.
But even then it will not be 100% phase accurate as all converters also have sub sample latencies which are different. Some might have 23.7 samples another 4.2.
Good luck!

Vincent, Amsterdam
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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

Thanks for your thoughts! smile
It's at least good to know that it's no mistake I made in my setup...
I'm definitely no software developer, but would it be impossible to include an Input Delay in Totalmix so you could just add 35 Samples of Delay to all the UFX Inputs and never think about it again??
Especially if this is a normal issue when using multiple converters...
I really wish I didn't have to use a plug-in in the DAW though, and would much prefer to solve the issue and not have to think about it when making quick decisions with a band in the studio.
Cheers!

  • ramses
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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

AFAIK you have delay compensation on MADI based solutions like e.g. up to 8 Octamic XTC on a MADI bus.
And not even between the Mic ports of the different Octamic XTCs, but also including the XTCs ADAT and AES ports.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

There's no solution in Totalmix, you'd have to do this isn software, which is just as good. But if you are not mixing together identical signals that went through both converters, you can mostly igore the issue, it won't be audible...


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Daniel Fuch
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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

Thanks for your answers guys.
It's a bit sad that Totalmix doesn't offer a fix - it's such an awesome piece if software, seems like it could do that for older non-Madi based gear as well.
Off to the DAW Inputs then.
Thanks for the help! H

  • ramses
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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

I think this is not the objective for TM FX. Latency compensation should IMHO happen in the driver, so that the driver is also able to communicate a proper RTL for input and output to the application.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

Where did you find out the Octamic II is 35 sample delayed over ADAT?

I have same question, RME, is this a published delay figure?

Keptnace wrote:

Hi!
I'm using a UFX as my Interface and a OctaMic II via Adat 1. I recently recorded a double mic'd instrument with one mic going through each piece of gear and noticed there was horrible phasing going on. Upon further investigation I figured out the OctaMic has a 35 sample latency. Does anyone know this problem and have an idea how to fix it within the RME system (i.e. in the hardware or totalmix)? I don't want to manually move tracks after recording or do anything in my DAW if not necessary...
Thanks in advance!

9 Reply by MC

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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

The UFX has 12 samples on AD side. The ADC module of the OctaMic  uses an older generation ADC that has 43 samples. So the difference mentioned seems realistic.

It still astonishes me how someone can split a stereo source between two devices. That's a clear no-go.

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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

MC wrote:

The UFX has 12 samples on AD side. The ADC module of the OctaMic  uses an older generation ADC that has 43 samples. So the difference mentioned seems realistic.

It still astonishes me how someone can split a stereo source between two devices. That's a clear no-go.

Thanks MC. Do you have the number of sampleson AD side for the original Babyface? Also OctaMicII is same? 43 samples?

Appreciate your reply.

11 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-02-26 18:33:06)

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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

You can get this information from all manuals (except only few products). Always see chapter "Latency and monitoring".

https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/bface_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/bface_e.pdf

Here for Babyface @44.1 kHz, see ch 26.2
- AD 43,2 samples, 0,98ms
- DA 28,0 samples, 0,63ms

For older products, check the archive site: https://archiv.rme-audio.de/en/
Check "Discontinued…" for even older products.
The manual links you find on the very left side…

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

Thanks ramses, I see that now.

What got me on the search is I cannot find the the information for the OctaMic II in the manual, unless I missed it.

13 Reply by MC

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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

It is in my post.

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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

43 samples ar 44.1, and how many at 48? 96? Etc.?

I'm learning its best to align in DAW, so these numbers aren't the full story.

Thanks MC.

15 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-02-28 12:15:14)

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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

adimenna wrote:

43 samples ar 44.1, and how many at 48? 96? Etc.?

I'm learning its best to align in DAW, so these numbers aren't the full story.

Thanks MC.

Converter latency (in [ms]) is usually about 50/25% at double/quad speed, precise enough?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

16 Reply by MC

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Re: SOLVED - Latency Problems between UFX and OctaMic II

adimenna wrote:

43 samples ar 44.1, and how many at 48? 96? Etc.?

I'm learning its best to align in DAW, so these numbers aren't the full story.

Thanks MC.

You didn't ask for that in the OP.

Single Speed: 43
Double Speed: 43
Quad Speed: 38

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