• Registered: 2020-08-14
  • Posts: 105

Topic: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

Hello,
I have been using RME UFX for almost 6~7 years and I cannot express enough about my satisfaction with this amazing audio interface.

As I have been always a 'DIY' home studio artist, I have been mixing my own projects for a couple of years now. And I am getting into a phase where I will take a huge step up to my DIY processing, which is doing my own 'mastering'.

I do everything in my home studio, my main DAW is Cubase Pro 10. And 70% I mix in the box, 30% compressing/FX/summing, I do with some outboard gears.

My question here is, I now am looking for a mastering-level converter for the best clarity of my music.
UFX has been good, but I am also interested in investing newly updated products too (also worried that I do not want my sound to be outdated by my old UFX).
I am aware that RME's new flagship all-in-one 1-rack unit audio interface is UFX+ and it looks very promising.
But, since I am so used to having my UFX, and totally in love with Totalmix and whatnot,
if I would like to really just upgrade the 'converter' part alone,

Would you recommend getting one of your high-end AD converters instead of replacing my UFX with newer models?
*bear in mind, that I also would like to save up my budget too.

If I could upgrade the clarity of my overall music AD conversion, I also would like to know how to connect the 'such' converter with my UFX. This part, I do not fully get it yet, since both would be able to work as an audio interface with my DAW.

A lot of my engineers seem to recommend ADI2-Pro converter, but I would love to hear from RME products veterans and get some insights and guideline for my next investment smile


Thank you in advance.
John.


*gear list for clearer recommendation:
mac mini 2020
Cubase 10 Pro
RME UFX
Avalon 747sp
BSS 402
Grace Design 101
Analog Synths
Electric guitar + Bass guitar
*I record mic + guitars + synths directly through UFX ins.

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2020-08-14 16:33:52)

  • ramses
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Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

UFX, UFX II and UFX+ are basically very similar, so if you liked your UFX, then you will also like UFX II or UFX+.

I put together some information in what regards UFX+ and UFX II differe to each other and to the old flagship UFX.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … 8-RME-UFX/

UFX+ is from price perspecitive not far from UFX II...
I see the advantages in having USB3 and Thunderbolt and you can even run it with USB2 as 30ch interface minus MADI.
MADI gives you many advantages in terms of cabling and amount of channels. At higher sample rates more channels remain and you can use ADAT also for other purposes ....

Also a very nice combination is UFX * in combination with ADI-2 Pro *:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

My setup and use cases: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … -DURec-DE/

Expanding with MADI: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … Cber-MADI/

You can even keep the UFX and enhance with ADI-2 Pro. All is possible.
But read about the new feature and you might want the UFX+ as well wink

Compare the different interface, see this blog article and Excel:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … B-MADIfac/
Excel: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 0-04-xlsx/
Please note, only the USB recording interfaces, no PCI/PCIe cards.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2020-08-14
  • Posts: 105

Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

"Also a very nice combination is UFX * in combination with ADI-2 Pro"

Thank you for your kind insights smile
I am pleased to know how great UFX+ and ADI-2 Pro are.

I have one question here, I mentioned above, your comment, 'UFX in combination with ADI-2 Pro',

What can I expect to be upgraded if I would purchase ADI-2 Pro in addtion to my current setup?
For now, I record everything through UFX, and also I mix inside my DAW, Cubase Pro 10.

Could you point out some of the pros and cons of each option for me if I'd record at home, mix + master at my home studio?
a) UFX with ADI-2 Pro
b) Getting UFX+

I am worried about UFX being a bit outdated in year 2020... I know it is rock-solid and I love it but I just want to assure myself my conversion is well treated.

Would keeping UFX as my main audio interface, degrade in any form to the AD/DA conversion capability of ADI-2 Pro?

  • ramses
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Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

You need an UFX * anyway to get also Mic and Instrument inputs.
ADI-2 Pro FS R BE has a high price tag.

Proposal, sell UFX, as you will get still a good price for it, but I wouldn't wait too long for a technology exchange.

Get then an UFX+, with your Mac you might also get the possibility to connect via thunderbolt.
The new driver allow even 32 samples ASIO buffersize kust for cases where you need this for playing with VSTi.

One of my blog articles list all the differences between old flagship UFX and new flagship interfaces UFX II / UFX+-

The UFX+/II got a new analog section compard to the UFX and the phones outputs are already quite nice.
Then you have everything updated again in 1 rack unit and have more recent features.

At a later point you can get more comfort with an ADI-2 Pro FS as it has unique features, which makes it very comfortably to listen to music in general terms and also to be used in the TotalMix Controlroom of the UFX *.
Its very nice to have a slow ramp-up of music level when plugging in phones.
The possibility to remap the front keys to allow for mute and changing between phones and monitors etc, also described in another blog article (see URLs above).

I think UFX+ is an excellent unit which can be enhanced a little bit by the ADI-2 Pro * in terms of its uniq features (PEQ, dynamic loudness, ..).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2020-08-14
  • Posts: 105

Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

ramses wrote:

You need an UFX * anyway to get also Mic and Instrument inputs.
ADI-2 Pro FS R BE has a high price tag.

Proposal, sell UFX, as you will get still a good price for it, but I wouldn't wait too long for a technology exchange.

Get then an UFX+, with your Mac you might also get the possibility to connect via thunderbolt.
The new driver allow even 32 samples ASIO buffersize kust for cases where you need this for playing with VSTi.

One of my blog articles list all the differences between old flagship UFX and new flagship interfaces UFX II / UFX+-

The UFX+/II got a new analog section compard to the UFX and the phones outputs are already quite nice.
Then you have everything updated again in 1 rack unit and have more recent features.

At a later point you can get more comfort with an ADI-2 Pro FS as it has unique features, which makes it very comfortably to listen to music in general terms and also to be used in the TotalMix Controlroom of the UFX *.
Its very nice to have a slow ramp-up of music level when plugging in phones.
The possibility to remap the front keys to allow for mute and changing between phones and monitors etc, also described in another blog article (see URLs above).

I think UFX+ is an excellent unit which can be enhanced a little bit by the ADI-2 Pro * in terms of its uniq features (PEQ, dynamic loudness, ..).

Do you think UFX+, purely on AD/DA conversion side, is as high-end as ADI-2 Pro, safe to say better at least...? or the opposite?

thanks.

I am seriously considering, UFX+ or ADI-2 Pro smile

  • vinark
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Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

You don't need anything better to master.  I master on my adi8-AE which is much older then the ufx. First room treatment then speakers then experience. Plus mastering can not fix mixing skills. Plus mastering in the same room as mixing does not reveal room flaws.
Mastering engineers have expensive Adda to impress their clients.
Except for some expectation bias, you will not hear any difference. You won't be able to pick one over the other in a blind test.
This is not my opinion, but facts, really

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2020-08-16 10:56:06)

  • ramses
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Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

Maybe this question is not easy to answer when looking isolated on the device, maybe you need to see it more
in the context of a complete setup.

After the experience of testing two different quite expensive integrated HiFi amps on the same HighEnd Speaker during a listening session in a HiFi shop my opineon is that one should try it out whether it brings a change.  We tested with two people. I had the best consultant with me, my wife, who is skeptikal and not a friend of wasting money. And to be honest me neither in this price range.

The two amplifiers, although both were very expensive, delivered a different sound stage. One was simply better and also had other dimensions we could "measure" it because there was a bell effect in the song which moved from the left to the right in the song and vice versa. By this it was possible to rememeber from where to where it moved in the room.

I agree, that differences in AD/DA converters nowadays become smaller.
But as I could see, its not only the Speaker that influenced the presentation of the sound material.

I think the best that you can do is to perform judgements in a concrete listening chain.

I don't want to start any deeper discussion on this topic, I only wanted to vote for being open and maybe to test with the help of a friend in the own listening chain whats more and whats less worth to spend money for.

That said, I would get both devices and then make some deeper tests what to keep and what to renew.
All devices mentioned are of very good quality, but at the end of the day its your experience and decision what brought a positive change to your listening chain.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2020-08-14
  • Posts: 105

Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

vinark wrote:

You don't need anything better to master.  I master on my adi8-AE which is much older then the ufx. First room treatment then speakers then experience. Plus mastering can not fix mixing skills. Plus mastering in the same room as mixing does not reveal room flaws.
Mastering engineers have expensive Adda to impress their clients.
Except for some expectation bias, you will not hear any difference. You won't be able to pick one over the other in a blind test.
This is not my opinion, but facts, really

Absolutely true!
Actually, I am planning on investing for the future.
Yes, I am planning on room-treating, upgrading mics, pres, compressors, and also start to switch my mixing setup as hybrid.
So, for the long-run, I actually without a doubt, need a decent, good, AD/DA converter smile

I am sure what you are saying is totally true, and if, I happen to mix in-the-box 100% without recording, I would not need to upgrade.
But, just like others, I also would like to step up my setup for better mixing, better AD recording, and better monitoring (DA)...
So yeah smile I was actually asking about this topic in advance smile

After finishing one of my personal project, I am seriously thinking of upgrading my AD/DA converter and treating my room better.
But thanks, for your comment.

*And my title seems a bit confusing, I meant to say for mixing/mastering (overall monitoring) smile cheers.

  • Registered: 2020-08-14
  • Posts: 105

Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

ramses wrote:

You need an UFX * anyway to get also Mic and Instrument inputs.
ADI-2 Pro FS R BE has a high price tag.

Proposal, sell UFX, as you will get still a good price for it, but I wouldn't wait too long for a technology exchange.

Get then an UFX+, with your Mac you might also get the possibility to connect via thunderbolt.
The new driver allow even 32 samples ASIO buffersize kust for cases where you need this for playing with VSTi.

One of my blog articles list all the differences between old flagship UFX and new flagship interfaces UFX II / UFX+-

The UFX+/II got a new analog section compard to the UFX and the phones outputs are already quite nice.
Then you have everything updated again in 1 rack unit and have more recent features.

At a later point you can get more comfort with an ADI-2 Pro FS as it has unique features, which makes it very comfortably to listen to music in general terms and also to be used in the TotalMix Controlroom of the UFX *.
Its very nice to have a slow ramp-up of music level when plugging in phones.
The possibility to remap the front keys to allow for mute and changing between phones and monitors etc, also described in another blog article (see URLs above).

I think UFX+ is an excellent unit which can be enhanced a little bit by the ADI-2 Pro * in terms of its uniq features (PEQ, dynamic loudness, ..).

If I am to add ADI-2 Pro FS in addition to my UFX, do I connect through AES? some people pointed out that, digital ins/outs mirroring issue on UFX, would you be able to elaborate about the issue if you are aware of it?

Actually, selling my UFX and getting UFX+ costs more here, because I can get a decent ADI-2 Pro Converter for a reasonable price, 2nd hand. So I am kind of leaning towards, adding ADI-2 Pro, since it is also a RME product, I still can use Totalmix and DA/AD conversion upgraded, best on both worlds for me.

Does this connection mean, I can fully control via Totalmix...?

I've also checked this video and comment below, one user asked about UCX combination, but UCX rear connection is slightly different from UFX,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOADUtZ7qc

  • ramses
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Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

> If I am to add ADI-2 Pro FS in addition to my UFX, do I connect through AES?  some people pointed out that, digital ins/outs mirroring issue on UFX,  would you be able to elaborate about the issue if you are aware of it?

I don't see any issues and am not sure what those people mean. Maybe they refer to the fact, that all UFX * devices have AES and ADAT2 are kind of bridged in terms of routing. If you want to route something to ADAT2 only, well then you see the signal also on AES and vice versa. See block diagram in the manual.

But there is no quality issue, digital transmission is digital transmission.

> Does this connection mean, I can fully control via Totalmix..

No, the ADI-2 Pro has no TotalMix FX support itself. Lets assume the ADI-2 Pro is connected to ADAT1 of UFX *.
In TotalMix FX you control what signals are being routed to ADAT1 of the UFX*.

Then finally on ADI-2 Pro you can use the ADI-2 Pros nice unique features
- remap keys features to e.g. define one key to switch between monitors and phones
- slow ramp-up of volume when connecting phones or when performing the above mentioned switching
- dynamic loudness to keep sound more uniq/consistent when turning down the volume
- PEQ to adjust some deficits of your phones
- remap one key to disable all EQs
- remap one key to mute all outputs
- ...

By this you can do the selection between main out and phones on the ADI-2 Pro. This saves you at least 1 or 2 of 8 snapshot slots in TM FX. So this is a very nice addition to an existing setup.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2020-08-14
  • Posts: 105

Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

ramses wrote:

> If I am to add ADI-2 Pro FS in addition to my UFX, do I connect through AES?  some people pointed out that, digital ins/outs mirroring issue on UFX,  would you be able to elaborate about the issue if you are aware of it?

I don't see any issues and am not sure what those people mean. Maybe they refer to the fact, that all UFX * devices have AES and ADAT2 are kind of bridged in terms of routing. If you want to route something to ADAT2 only, well then you see the signal also on AES and vice versa. See block diagram in the manual.

But there is no quality issue, digital transmission is digital transmission.

> Does this connection mean, I can fully control via Totalmix..

No, the ADI-2 Pro has no TotalMix FX support itself. Lets assume the ADI-2 Pro is connected to ADAT1 of UFX *.
In TotalMix FX you control what signals are being routed to ADAT1 of the UFX*.

Then finally on ADI-2 Pro you can use the ADI-2 Pros nice unique features
- remap keys features to e.g. define one key to switch between monitors and phones
- slow ramp-up of volume when connecting phones or when performing the above mentioned switching
- dynamic loudness to keep sound more uniq/consistent when turning down the volume
- PEQ to adjust some deficits of your phones
- remap one key to disable all EQs
- remap one key to mute all outputs
- ...

By this you can do the selection between main out and phones on the ADI-2 Pro. This saves you at least 1 or 2 of 8 snapshot slots in TM FX. So this is a very nice addition to an existing setup.

Thanks smile Really good to hear about its flexibility smile

I was also thinking, if I purchase solely separate AD/DA converter, the pro side of it, would be, that I can later, just change/upgrade my audio interface! which would be super convenient if I'm off road! (because sometimes getting my UFX on the road was cumbersome you know:))

  • ramses
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Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

> [...] if I purchase solely separate AD/DA converter, the pro side of it, would be, that [...]

You are aware of that ADI-2 Pro doesn't support / provide
- TotalMix FX
- Mic / Instr inputs
?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2020-08-14
  • Posts: 105

Re: Which RME converter for DIY mastering, to use with UFX?

Finally got myself UFX ii, loving it, Ramses smile