Topic: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

Hi, i decided at first that I wanted a Raydat for my new Windows PC build, but now I realize that I only really need 8 channels of ADAT. I also noticed RME just released the new AIO PRO.....and even though i dont plan to use the AD/DA converters currently.....is this a better card than the Raydat, seeing as how the Raydat is about 12 years old? Does the new card have lower latency or better performance??
For now, my plan is to use my Scarlett 18i20 in standalone mode  for AD/DA conversion....into one of the HDSPe cards via ADAT.....and back out via ADAT to use the 18i20 for monitoring (headphones and KRK monitors). I am fine with my 18i20 other than latency issues.
Since this is a new PC build, would it be best to wait and go with the most current RME card??
Do Raydat and newer AIO PRO differ In performance? Thanks

2 (edited by ramses 2020-09-29 21:40:59)

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

These are two different cards, the RayDAT is a full digital card without any AD or DA conversion.

Both cards use the same ASIO driver.

Define performance .. what do you mean by this ?

Do you need MIDI, WC, AES, coaxial SPDIF, multiple ADAT ports, A/D or D/A converters, ..

I'd say, write down the features of each of the card and then simply choose the card with the feature set that fits best to your demand.

Taken from old Webserver (Archive Site):

RayDAT (fully digital card)
36 Inputs / 36 Outputs
4 x ADAT I/O (up to 192 kHz via S/MUX4)
1 x AES/EBU I/O (192 kHz)
1 x SPDIF I/O (192 kHZ)
2 x MIDI I/O

AIO (copy paste from old webserver)
1 x Stereo Analog I/O (192 kHz)
1 x ADAT I/O (up to 192 kHz via S/MUX4)
1 x SPDIF I/O (192 kHz)
1 x AES/EBU I/O (192 kHz)
1 x MIDI I/O
1 x Phones Output (separate DAC, 192 kHz)

The new AIO offers some nice advantages over the old AIO card, see new webserver.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+, XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

ramses wrote:

These are two different cards, the RayDAT is a full digital card without any AD or DA conversion.

Both cards use the same ASIO driver.

Define performance .. what do you mean by this ?

Do you need MIDI, WC, AES, coaxial SPDIF, multiple ADAT ports, A/D or D/A converters, ..

I'd say, write down the features of each of the card and then simply choose the card with the feature set that fits best to your demand.

Taken from old Webserver (Archive Site):

RayDAT (fully digital card)
36 Inputs / 36 Outputs
4 x ADAT I/O (up to 192 kHz via S/MUX4)
1 x AES/EBU I/O (192 kHz)
1 x SPDIF I/O (192 kHZ)
2 x MIDI I/O

AIO (copy paste from old webserver)
1 x Stereo Analog I/O (192 kHz)
1 x ADAT I/O (up to 192 kHz via S/MUX4)
1 x SPDIF I/O (192 kHz)
1 x AES/EBU I/O (192 kHz)
1 x MIDI I/O
1 x Phones Output (separate DAC, 192 kHz)

The new AIO offers some nice advantages over the old AIO card, see new webserver.

Thank you for replying, i have been through forum and know differences and features of both cards. When, I say performance, I mean
1. does the newer AIO PRO have lower latency?
2. Is it more stable at reduced buffer sizes?
3. I also think i read the RAYDAT does NOT have effects, even though it has the TotalMix FX software ( i guess it can only be used for routing purposes)
Technically since all I need is small amount of ADAT channels, either card will work, just trying to see if any advantage going with the newer technology
Thanks

4 (edited by rxguru 2020-09-29 22:36:38)

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

ramses wrote:

These are two different cards, the RayDAT is a full digital card without any AD or DA conversion.

Both cards use the same ASIO driver.

Define performance .. what do you mean by this ?

Do you need MIDI, WC, AES, coaxial SPDIF, multiple ADAT ports, A/D or D/A converters, ..

I'd say, write down the features of each of the card and then simply choose the card with the feature set that fits best to your demand.

Taken from old Webserver (Archive Site):

RayDAT (fully digital card)
36 Inputs / 36 Outputs
4 x ADAT I/O (up to 192 kHz via S/MUX4)
1 x AES/EBU I/O (192 kHz)
1 x SPDIF I/O (192 kHZ)
2 x MIDI I/O

AIO (copy paste from old webserver)
1 x Stereo Analog I/O (192 kHz)
1 x ADAT I/O (up to 192 kHz via S/MUX4)
1 x SPDIF I/O (192 kHz)
1 x AES/EBU I/O (192 kHz)
1 x MIDI I/O
1 x Phones Output (separate DAC, 192 kHz)

The new AIO offers some nice advantages over the old AIO card, see new webserver.


Ok, i re-read your post. When you say both cards have the same ASIO driver, are you also saying that their latency and their stability at lower buffer settings will be exact same? Sorry for newbie questions, this is my very first PCIe card. Even read the FS stuff on the newer card, did not know if that makes a difference as well?

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

I have RayDAT, UFX, UFX+, tested HDSPe MADI FX.
RME driver have all very similar very good performance in terms of RTL (Round Trip Latency).
See tabular of one of my blog articles:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/index.php/Entry/68-RME-UFX/

> 1. does the newer AIO PRO have lower latency?
Depends on what latency you mean ..
- the RTL will be the same over PCIe as they use the same driver
- in terms of converter speed, well as I said, the RayDAT has no converters, its a full digital cards

> 2. Is it more stable at reduced buffer sizes?
They use the same driver. RME drivers are very robust with excellent performance. There are of course always a few systems which might have issues, but this lies in the nature of PC/OS design (BIOS, drivers, mainboard design, ..) and  is not a flaw of the RME card.

> 3. I also think i read the RAYDAT does NOT have effects, even though it has the TotalMix FX software ( i guess it can only be used for routing purposes)

"TotalMix FX" is simply the successor of the older "TotalMix" Software.
The "FX" in the name is not related to FX effects on the card or recording interface.
Some cards have a FX chip, some not, it does not depend on TotalMix FX, it depends whether a FX chip is present on a RME recording interface. Some USB based recording interface have such a chip, some not. In the area of PCI/PCIe cards only the HDSPe MADI FX card has such a FX chip, all other PCI/PCIe cards not.
AIO and RayDAT do not have FX chip on board.

> Technically since all I need is small amount of ADAT channels, either card will work, just trying to see
> if any advantage going with the newer technology

This doesn't matter for the RayDAT as this is a fully digital card without any AD/DA converter.
The advantage of the RayDAT is, that you have other ports, that might be useful for you
and it has the possibility to add an optional Word Clock module.
As I said, look at the I/O ports to get a feeling, what gives you the best advantages.

I personally think that the RayDAT has many advantages and can be expanded very well.
BUT ... you need to add analog I/O first for your monitors and phones.
A very nice combination is: RayDAT, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, ARC USB.

The new AIO is surely a very nice card, but it is missing a few features that the RayDAT has, i.e. Word Clock and maybe some other I/O ports, you should compare on your own please ! The information is there in manuals and on the webpage, you only need to read and "digest" it.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+, XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

Thank you very much, will read more and looking for your blog in English now, lol!!

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

The RayDAT offers different digital I/O so that you can use it very flexible even for such a setup:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ort-DE-EN/

When the ADI-2 Pro came out, some people were missing TotalMix FX.
The RayDAT in combination with the ADI-2 Pro is a good combination to get TM FX into a setup with the ADI-2 Pro.
And even more.
As the RayDAT has also AES I/O you could connect it to the ADI-2 Pro with ADAT and AES, together with a suitable routing mode on the ADI-2 Pro it is possible to send audio to either phones or monitors by routing audio either to the AES or ADAT OUT port of the RayDAT. If you add now an ARC USB, then you can very nicely change between two TM FX shapshots (routings). At the end you can switch between listening through monitors or phones also with TM FX or the ARC USB.
In addition to the possibility to switch this on the ADI-2 Pro by remapping the keys:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

By the amount and type of digital I/O ports the RayDAT is a very nice card to perform such setups and you can further expand it by using the other 3 / 4 ADAT ports.

And you have two MIDI ports and a Word Clock module, shall you require WC in your setup (when connecting devices which have no ADAT IN ports to learn clock from there).

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+, XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

ramses wrote:

The RayDAT offers different digital I/O so that you can use it very flexible even for such a setup:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ort-DE-EN/

When the ADI-2 Pro came out, some people were missing TotalMix FX.
The RayDAT in combination with the ADI-2 Pro is a good combination to get TM FX into a setup with the ADI-2 Pro.
And even more.
As the RayDAT has also AES I/O you could connect it to the ADI-2 Pro with ADAT and AES, together with a suitable routing mode on the ADI-2 Pro it is possible to send audio to either phones or monitors by routing audio either to the AES or ADAT OUT port of the RayDAT. If you add now an ARC USB, then you can very nicely change between two TM FX shapshots (routings). At the end you can switch between listening through monitors or phones also with TM FX or the ARC USB.
In addition to the possibility to switch this on the ADI-2 Pro by remapping the keys:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

By the amount and type of digital I/O ports the RayDAT is a very nice card to perform such setups and you can further expand it by using the other 3 / 4 ADAT ports.

And you have two MIDI ports and a Word Clock module, shall you require WC in your setup (when connecting devices which have no ADAT IN ports to learn clock from there).

I actually ordered the Raydat, but now I think i will have to send it back. I just watched a Youtube video and someone in the comments said it was a full height card?? I did not think about fact that my new build is only 3 rack units high.......made to fit into my output platform desk. I can only use low profile PCIe cards. I guess now I have NO option but to give up my Focusrite 18i20 and upgrade to a UFX 2 plus ARC controller.....if I wanna go RME.

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

My personal opinion is, if you can get the UFX II, get the UFX+.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+, XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

ramses wrote:

My personal opinion is, if you can get the UFX II, get the UFX+.

Thought that too, but for my personal little setup, I dont see the benefit? I do have a 4 port USB 3 card installed on my new build (I9 9700K, 36GB ram, Windows 10 Pro)........but I do NOT have a Thunderbolt card although my MOBO is Thunderbolt 3 ready (but I read about a lot of issues with Thunderbolt and windows). I have small home set up where I record mostly vocals, guitar, bass.......several synths and mostly VSTi heavy productions. I am no professional, have no idea what to do with MADI, lol. I was seeking the lowest possible latency and the most stable drivers. If you do see ANY potential benefit for a little fish like me, please let me know. Thanks

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

If you don’t need much more Analogue In/Outs in the future where Madi might come in useful, the UFX II will be just fine (and even if you will need some more, the UFX II can also be expanded via ADAT...).

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

I see an additional advantage with the UFX+.
You have two (even three) possibilites to connect to a computer
a) USB3 with MADIface driver
b) Thunderbolt with the special thunderbolt driver (which - unlike MADIface driver - supports the pitch function)
c) USB2 the usual 30 ports like with the UFX II

If you should work with higher sample frequencies, then you need the two ADAT ports and have less channels available. If you want to remote control a preamp then you can use MIDI over MADI. You need only one cable and not additional MIDI cabling and the two ADAT ports can be used for other things. ADAT2 is anyway coubled with the AES port.

So all in all you have much more flexibility and sustainability of invest if you spend only a few bucks more.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+, XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

Thank you, for your response sir . Now I will let my mind "digest" this info as well, lol, lol. Cheers!!

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

You are missing out on one extra option:

Get both the AIO Pro AND the RayDAT and use them both together. They can be linked and seen as one audio interface in both Windows and Mac OS.

15 (edited by ramses 2021-08-02 10:14:01)

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

** Updated, pls read again **

Old thread, but here we go ...
But still they are two separate audio interfaces in terms of TM FX routing.
You can't route audio channels across both cards.

Therefore my recommendation is still

a) to get a recording interface with sufficient amount of ports  and/or possibilities to expand through AES, ADAT, MADI.
    Only this way it's possible to route any Input/Sw playback to every HW output.

b) if you consider UFX II, then to get an UFX+ instead
    For a few bucks more you get much more options so you have even more flexibility and longer investment protection
    - more possibilites in terms of computer interface: USB3, TB and even USB2 (30ch interface without MADI)
    - if you need pitch function then you have it in the TB driver (new USB transfer modes of new USB driver do not support this)
    - the new USB driver supports very low ASIO buffersizes down to 32 samples - if needed - like the PCI/PCIe cards do
      the older USB driver supports 48 as a minimum. Well enough, but you might have situations where you prefer 32 samples.

BR
Ramses
X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro21H2, Cub11Pro, UFX+, XTC, 12Mic, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT

Re: New AIO PRO vs RAYDAT

ramses wrote:

b) if you consider UFX II, then to get an UFX+ instead
    For a few bucks more you get much more options so you have even more flexibility and longer investment protection
    - more possibilites in terms of computer interface: USB3, TB and even USB2 (30ch interface without MADI)
    - if you need pitch function then you have it in the TB driver (new USB transfer modes of new USB driver do not support this)
    - the new USB driver supports very low ASIO buffersizes down to 32 samples - if needed - like the PCI/PCIe cards do
      the older USB driver supports 48 as a minimum. Well enough, but you might have situations where you prefer 32 samples.

All fair points. With UFX+ personally, I would think whether an update is maybe in the near future as it looks like there is some "version 2" stuff happening lately with for example UCX 2 and Babyface Pro FS.