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RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → ADI-2 DAC FS delay
Hey guys,
I need to know what is the delay on the ADI-2 DAC (from input -coax- to output) to properly correct the phase setting with the second DAC (in a schematic with two subwoofers as in the picture below)
Thanks!!
Hi Mushi,
Maybe this link will help:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … ost-252803
Hi Mushi,
Maybe this link will help:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … ost-252803
Thank you buddy!!
I would propose, if still possible, to get a subwoofter to which you connect the satellites.
I would propose, if still possible, to get a subwoofter to which you connect the satellites.
Absolutely not, this configuration of MiniDSP SHD Studio with PEQs for satellite/subwoofer equalization and Dirac live for timing and room correction works perfectly, together with the faboulos ADI-2 DACs the achievable quality is awesome.
But I admit, the second ADI-2 DAC only for the subwoofers is a little bit overkill.
> But I admit, the second ADI-2 DAC only for the subwoofers is a little bit overkill.
BTW .. that was the main reason for my comment.
But sorry, I didn't understand your other comment.
In the drawing the two dac and sub/sat are behind the room correction device.
Am wondering why it should not be a valid approach to take only one dac and then a sub and sat connected to sub.
Isn't it an advantage of this concept, that such a sub is prepared, that the satellites only get those frequencies,
so that there is no overlap in frequencies between sub and sat ?
Do you want to say by this, that SHD sub is prepared to connect sat and sub and performs this better ?
I would have doubts tbh, because then the operator would need to know the technical data of the sub exactly.
In that regards I personally would see an advantage to hand over the sub the work to perfectly integrate the satellites.
Or are you the opineon that its better to have a 10 Band EQ working for Sub and Sat separately if you set it up like in the drawing ?
The miniDSP SHD Studio is much more flexible. I have a lot of experience in sub integration, stereo and home cinema using miniDSP, Acourate, subwoofer DSPs, DSPeaker Anti-Mode, YPAO, Audyssey etc.
The SHD Studio has digital I/O only, the SHD has analog and digital I/O.
mushi's setup is perfect. As said he could use a simpler, less sophisticated DAC for the subs but if money is not an issue the ADI-2 DAC is great for that.
In theory you would be right if there were a perfect subwoofer. Almost all subwoofers have inferior AD/DA conversion regarding full range and most subwoofer DSPs do not have enough PEQs or parameters (phase, delay) to adjust for perfect satellite integration. Because it is not enough to just set the right low/high pass filters.
I see from your comments that you do not have much practical experience in subwoofer integration (no offense).
ADI-2 DAC is my headphone amp/dac. For stereo i've got another one, but soon I will be able to use ADI-2 in stereo too..
..my new children arrived yesterday;)
The miniDSP SHD Studio is much more flexible. I have a lot of experience in sub integration, stereo and home cinema using miniDSP, Acourate, subwoofer DSPs, DSPeaker Anti-Mode, YPAO, Audyssey etc.
The SHD Studio has digital I/O only, the SHD has analog and digital I/O.
mushi's setup is perfect. As said he could use a simpler, less sophisticated DAC for the subs but if money is not an issue the ADI-2 DAC is great for that.
In theory you would be right if there were a perfect subwoofer. Almost all subwoofers have inferior AD/DA conversion regarding full range and most subwoofer DSPs do not have enough PEQs or parameters (phase, delay) to adjust for perfect satellite integration. Because it is not enough to just set the right low/high pass filters.
I see from your comments that you do not have much practical experience in subwoofer integration (no offense).
Thanks you for your answer.
I did not know the mini DSP yet and did not have the time to read about it. So far I have only noticed more often in other forums that people want to buy subwoofers without even understanding the slightest thing about it.
Because I didn't know the device, I first had the impression that it was possible that the sub and satellite would simply be connected in parallel.
To be honest, I still have some doubts about how the mini DSP can actually manage to separate the bass and mid-range on the right pair of speakers. If you say that it would work well, ok, then I think that's interesting news for those who want to have such a design for whatever reason.
I personally try to avoid such additional and IMHO (on the 1st glimpse) unnecessary complexity (in terms of piling up more and more devices). Rather than that I prefer a clean simple and good concept. Why not just buy the right speakers or do you see an additional advantage in the separation into sub and satellite chassis ?
Don't worry, it will work fine.
In my setup that would be setting miniDSP filters: lowpass for subwoofers 4th L-R at 70Hz, and for fronts highpass 2nd Butterworth at 91Hz.
It's all about optimum bass playback in small room mate 
I don't see any problem with the setup, except that it's not possible to integrate a subwoofer based on theoretical values.
Too many variables in a real acoustic room.
You need a measurement system.
If you have an iPhone / iPad I suggest the FFT-part of AudioTools from Studio Six Digital.
It changes the iDevice into a calibrated, serious measurement system, no need to buy additional hardware.
There's a 7 days trial period available.
BTW: the higher the filter order, the more "time smearing" appears.
This is killing bass impact.
I advocate lower order, even some overlap.
MiniDSP products and miniDSP SHD with Dirac Live contains a very sophisticated measurement system.
Just search for Dirac Live and miniDSP.
bejoro wrote:The miniDSP SHD Studio is much more flexible. I have a lot of experience in sub integration, stereo and home cinema using miniDSP, Acourate, subwoofer DSPs, DSPeaker Anti-Mode, YPAO, Audyssey etc.
The SHD Studio has digital I/O only, the SHD has analog and digital I/O.
mushi's setup is perfect. As said he could use a simpler, less sophisticated DAC for the subs but if money is not an issue the ADI-2 DAC is great for that.
In theory you would be right if there were a perfect subwoofer. Almost all subwoofers have inferior AD/DA conversion regarding full range and most subwoofer DSPs do not have enough PEQs or parameters (phase, delay) to adjust for perfect satellite integration. Because it is not enough to just set the right low/high pass filters.
I see from your comments that you do not have much practical experience in subwoofer integration (no offense).
Thanks you for your answer.
I did not know the mini DSP yet and did not have the time to read about it. So far I have only noticed more often in other forums that people want to buy subwoofers without even understanding the slightest thing about it.
Because I didn't know the device, I first had the impression that it was possible that the sub and satellite would simply be connected in parallel.To be honest, I still have some doubts about how the mini DSP can actually manage to separate the bass and mid-range on the right pair of speakers. If you say that it would work well, ok, then I think that's interesting news for those who want to have such a design for whatever reason.
I personally try to avoid such additional and IMHO (on the 1st glimpse) unnecessary complexity (in terms of piling up more and more devices). Rather than that I prefer a clean simple and good concept. Why not just buy the right speakers or do you see an additional advantage in the separation into sub and satellite chassis ?
mushi's setup is already very simple and clean and your doubts come from missing knowledge. You should learn more about room acoustics of small rooms, bass response in small rooms, single bass arrays, double bass arrays, placing speakers and subwoofers etc. Room EQ Wizard (REW) has a nice simulation feature.
With todays DSP solutions and software it is much easier to achieve an extremely well bass response in small rooms. But you need at least two subwoofers and a very good DSP system featuring Dirac Live or DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 to manage frequency response, distances, delays, phase, PEQs. If you do everything manually it will be very complicated.
It is much easier today than it was 25 years ago when I started with subwoofer setups. But you still have to know the basics to achieve perfect results. Many audio enthusiasts never heard a perfect bass response in their listening rooms or even think about it. Just placing two full range speakers carefully and choose a good listening position is fine but only with additional subwoofers (knowledge and very good DSP system) you will get an almost perfect bass response and the difference is incredible.
Thanks @bejoro, i wouldn't say it better myself. I'm just starting my adventure with DSP but i have a few friends who help me. I will use Dirac and REV for measurements. Subwoofers will be two small passive closed box (35l each with 11" scan-speak drivers). mini is a killer in my setup: dsp, preamp and roon endpoint.
Hi, this is a very interesting topic (never heard about this before). Do you have some links to educate me further?
Your help is highly appreciated. Cheers, KT
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/ … view.3320/
Cheers mate,
m.
Thanks a lot, will look into it 
Sorry to revive an old thread, but I was searching to do something very similar to this (only with 1x sub). There's one thing I can't get my head around - how are you doing volume control in this setup so that the sub vol. tracks the mains vol.?
ramses wrote:bejoro wrote:The miniDSP SHD Studio is much more flexible. I have a lot of experience in sub integration, stereo and home cinema using miniDSP, Acourate, subwoofer DSPs, DSPeaker Anti-Mode, YPAO, Audyssey etc.
The SHD Studio has digital I/O only, the SHD has analog and digital I/O.
mushi's setup is perfect. As said he could use a simpler, less sophisticated DAC for the subs but if money is not an issue the ADI-2 DAC is great for that.
In theory you would be right if there were a perfect subwoofer. Almost all subwoofers have inferior AD/DA conversion regarding full range and most subwoofer DSPs do not have enough PEQs or parameters (phase, delay) to adjust for perfect satellite integration. Because it is not enough to just set the right low/high pass filters.
I see from your comments that you do not have much practical experience in subwoofer integration (no offense).
Thanks you for your answer.
I did not know the mini DSP yet and did not have the time to read about it. So far I have only noticed more often in other forums that people want to buy subwoofers without even understanding the slightest thing about it.
Because I didn't know the device, I first had the impression that it was possible that the sub and satellite would simply be connected in parallel.To be honest, I still have some doubts about how the mini DSP can actually manage to separate the bass and mid-range on the right pair of speakers. If you say that it would work well, ok, then I think that's interesting news for those who want to have such a design for whatever reason.
I personally try to avoid such additional and IMHO (on the 1st glimpse) unnecessary complexity (in terms of piling up more and more devices). Rather than that I prefer a clean simple and good concept. Why not just buy the right speakers or do you see an additional advantage in the separation into sub and satellite chassis ?
mushi's setup is already very simple and clean and your doubts come from missing knowledge. You should learn more about room acoustics of small rooms, bass response in small rooms, single bass arrays, double bass arrays, placing speakers and subwoofers etc. Room EQ Wizard (REW) has a nice simulation feature.
With todays DSP solutions and software it is much easier to achieve an extremely well bass response in small rooms. But you need at least two subwoofers and a very good DSP system featuring Dirac Live or DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 to manage frequency response, distances, delays, phase, PEQs. If you do everything manually it will be very complicated.
It is much easier today than it was 25 years ago when I started with subwoofer setups. But you still have to know the basics to achieve perfect results. Many audio enthusiasts never heard a perfect bass response in their listening rooms or even think about it. Just placing two full range speakers carefully and choose a good listening position is fine but only with additional subwoofers (knowledge and very good DSP system) you will get an almost perfect bass response and the difference is incredible.
Lots of subjective opinions here regarding setup and technology. Any measurements done to verify objectively this is accurate?
RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → ADI-2 DAC FS delay
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