1 Topic by fieldstu (edited by fieldstu 2020-11-03 17:18:12)

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Topic: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

I try to find out how to set up my digital clocking. Basic question to start from is if you can sync the ADI-2 Pro FS to an external SPDIF or AES clock, and while doing so convert incoming S/PDIF optical to analog.

What I try to do is:
1) clock ADI-2 Pro FS to my Digiface USB. I think to convert Digiface USB optical to AES first for this purpose in order to have a free optical input; so that I can
2) connect e.g. a minidisk to the optical input and convert the digital signal to analog and/or send it for recording as D to D.

Is this possible?

Edit: oops I forgot “SRC” in the question, so the question should be, do the SRC and ADDA conversion work at the same time?

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

2 Reply by MC

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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

Your minidisk can be synced? I doubt so. What is the purpose of this whole setup? You understood the rule 'one master for all', and your minidisk can only be master (I think)?

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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3 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2020-11-01 18:54:25)

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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

fieldstu wrote:

Basic question is if you can sync the ADI-2 Pro FS to an external AES clock, and while doing so convert incoming S/PDIF optical to analog.

What I try to do is:
1) clock ADI-2 Pro FS to my Digiface USB. I think to convert Digiface USB optical to AES first for this purpose in order to have a free optical input; so that I can
2) connect e.g. a minidisk to the optical input and convert the digital signal to analog and/or send it for recording as D to D.

Is this possible?

Opposed to what Matthias mentioned, it could maybe work with the ADI-2 Pro FS.


It contains a Sample Rate Converter on the SPDIF/TOSLINK/AES input.
In a digital system everything has to follow the same master clock EXCEPT if the clock is decoupled by an SRC.


The setup-chain looks like this:

AUDIO:
Minidisc —> TOSLINK (=optical) —>
—> ADI-2 Pro optical in, SRC active —> AES or SPDIF out —>
—> Digiface AES or SPDIF input —> USB —>
—> PC USB.

CLOCK:
Digiface/Host PC = Master —> AES out —>
—> ADI-2 AES in, clock slave
(at this point I'm not sure if ADI-2 can use a different input from the SPDIF/TOSLINK/AES group for clocking than the selected audio input, PLUS use the SRC).


ELSE it's much easier to use the Minidisc as clock master and audio source at the same time, all through the chain.
Even more easy if you plug ADI-2 Pro's USB to your PC for recording, in case.

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4 Reply by fieldstu (edited by fieldstu 2020-11-06 02:28:02)

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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

Kai thanks for summarizing. Indeed that is how I wanted to set it up.


ELSE it's much easier to use the Minidisc as clock master and audio source at the same time, all through the chain.
Even more easy if you plug ADI-2 Pro's USB to your PC for recording, in case.

You have a point. If so, then I'd also be able to directly plug the optical outputs into the Digiface USB itself and slave the Digiface USB clock to that of the incoming S/PDIF signals, no need for the ADI-2 Pro FS for recording from optical! This solves a lot of cabling issues.

Ok, AES idea out of the door. A better clocking proposal looks like:

CLOCK:
Minidisc = clock master —> 4:1 switch in
ADI-2 Pro FS = clock master —> 4:1 switch in
Digiface USB = clock slave to resolve from clock coming from 4:1 switch

Is the clocking in the above stable enough for (cd) playback (from itunes)?

On purpose I leave out the USB connection of ADI-2 Pro FS.

Edit: desirable though is setting sample rate in the computer.

ADI2, Digiface, ARC
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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

Absolute correct.

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6 Reply by fieldstu (edited by fieldstu 2020-11-05 04:06:29)

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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

I try a new cable routing..

Edit: see below

ADI2, Digiface, ARC
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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

This setup is too tricky for me to remotely analyse.
I cannot test it practically, as I don't have a Digiface USB.

At least I see two masters ("Digital sources", "ADI-2 Pro INT clock"), which isn't possible.


As far as I can see Digiface is obsolete for what you want to achieve.
Direct connection ADI-2 Pro — USB — PC would simplify everything.
This could even make SRC unnecessary, as ADI-2 Pro can handle the clock situation based on the selected input.


That's about what I use here, even with an 8x8 digital switching matrix (ADI-2 Pro is mainly used for my headphones setup, but shares sources with my main system).

Maybe you have to wait until you have ADI-2 Pro.
Due to the multiple configuration options inside ADI-2 Pro there are working configurations I'm sure.

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8 Reply by fieldstu (edited by fieldstu 2020-11-05 04:12:27)

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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

KaiS wrote:

As far as I can see Digiface is obsolete for what you want to achieve.
Direct connection ADI-2 Pro — USB — PC would simplify everything.

Digiface USB is multichannel, ADI-2 Pro FS is just 2-channel. At least decoupling the clocks of digital devices that have no digital inputs is welcome.

Refer to manual chapter 8.6 SRC.

The culprit is, that when ADI-2 Pro FS is clock master, Digiface USB receives and mirrors this clock back to the ADI-2 Pro FS optical input, the SRC will therewith receive back the mirrored ADI-2 master clock. All I want to know is if this will result in an issue.

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

9 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2020-11-03 20:34:39)

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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

If you need the Digiface USB in your setup, the Digiface/PC USB combi (see below) should be the Clock Master.

Everything else should:
• either be slaved: ADI-2 Pro,
• or decoupled via ADI-2 Pro's SRC.

Then your system is comfortably usable without reconfiguration between different sources.


It boils again down to my first proposal:

AUDIO:
Minidisc and other digital sources —>
—> TOSLINK 4:1 switch —>
—> ADI-2 Pro optical in, SRC active —> AES or SPDIF out —>
—> Digiface AES or SPDIF input —> USB —>
—> PC USB.

CLOCK:
Digiface/Host PC = Master —> AES out —>
—> ADI-2 Pro AES in, clock slave

For control, a (Clock) State Overview Display shows the clock situation and validity in ADI-2 Pro: press Encoder 1 or 2 several times.


@ Matthias:
At this point I'm not sure if ADI-2 Pro can use:
a different input from the SPDIF/TOSLINK/AES group for clocking than the selected audio input,
PLUS, use the SRC.
At least there are Setup-Options that suggest it should.
But- in my favourite Mode "DAC" the relevant ones are greyed out.



USB Clock Background:

As soon as USB comes into play, the PC (/Mac/iOS- /Android- device/...) forms a symbiosis with ADI-2 Pro, likely same with Digiface USB.

The PC determines the clock value (44.1, 48, 96, ... kHz), but the clock itself is generated inside the USB-Audio device.
The PC "remotely" (via USB) switches ADI-2 Pro's or Digiface's clock.
(@Matthias: correct me if this is over-simplificated)

This behaviour is desirable so you can play whatever format you like from your PC, e.g. when streaming.

There are in fact different USB modes, like "Class Complient", "Asynchronus" etc., with different behavior, some are switchable in ADI-2 Pro.
Usually "Class Complient" is desirable.

I'm not an expert in this, here's expert info:
https://www.edn.com/fundamentals-of-usb-audio/

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10 Reply by fieldstu (edited by fieldstu 2020-11-05 11:00:45)

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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

I repuzzled the connections needed. Digiface USB as clock master simplifies.

Edit: see below

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

11 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2020-11-04 00:49:29)

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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

Still don't get what the Digiface is good for in your proposed setup.
It doesn't offer anything (for a home environment) that ADI-2 Pro doesn't.

Do you record multitrack or do I miss something else?

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12 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2020-11-04 01:02:49)

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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

Ok, I found this:

fieldstu wrote:

... I don't need all preamp and other nice to haves, as I work mostly fully inside the box. I think Digiface USB is the perfect solution.

...

Following is the desired scenario:
MacOS (latest 10.15.7) running both LPX and WL
Logic Pro X --> has 8 to 16 individual mono tracks output (RME coreaudio driver selected)
Wavelab pro --> records 8 to 16 individual mono tracks (RME coreaudio driver selected)

I know I have various alternatives, i.e.
1) exporting/bouncing in Logic then importing in Wavelab.
2) connecting optical cable from output back to input then select the inputs in the recording program. For this scenario however I do not know if the Coreaudio driver can handle both Logic and Wavelab whom both want to take over the driver
3) Some random loopback software driver with 16 channels.

In essence, I'd like to have Logic perform as a studio of virtual instruments and virtual FX plugins, and in wavelab I want without having to touch Logic just record its output on multiple channels on a continuous basis.

You say you did notice that you can bounce multiple tracks from Logic into audio files, without any realtime recording, why not use this much easier function and skip Digiface?
This is without track number limitation btw.

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13 Reply by fieldstu (edited by fieldstu 2020-11-05 11:01:52)

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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

ADI-2 Pro FS the analog frontend for the digiface... two questions on ADI-2 Pro FS Sample Rate Conversion:

• Can ADI-2 Pro FS with SRC = active in mode AD/DA be clocked to AES clock while SPDIF sources send their master clocks also?
• Can ADI-2 Pro FS with SRC = active in mode AD/DA handle a clock mirror that comes back e.g. via Digiface USB optical into ADI-2  Pro FS optical input?

ADI2, Digiface, ARC

14 Reply by fieldstu (edited by fieldstu 2020-11-05 11:06:42)

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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

Got It!

Digiface USB must be Clock Master, but if non-syncable other optical clocks exist Digiface USB must sync to that. AutoSync makes that is possible.

The setup then can get rid of the 4:1 switch, routing being:

AUDIO:
source —optical—> Digiface USB —optical—> ADDA —analog—> Amp (play)
source —optical—> Digiface USB —USB—> Computer (rec)
source  —analog—> ADDA —optical—> Digiface USB —USB—> computer (rec)
source —analog—> ADDA  —analog—> Amp  (play)

CLOCK
Digiface USB = Clock Master
Optical sources = Clock Source for Digiface USB if needed/selected
ADDA = Clock slave

ADI2, Digiface, ARC
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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

Without SRC! smile

ADI2, Digiface, ARC
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Re: ADI-2 Pro FS: spdif recording, SRC and clock settings

Time to make it happen!

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