• From: Greece
  • Registered: 2020-06-04
  • Posts: 92

Topic: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

I keep working on my new pc built dealing with every issue that comes along.
Most recent was this, to which I have not found an explanation but at least I can go on working

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=32274

Another issue that has popped up is a strong radio frequency interference or electromagnetic interference when I play my guitar through my regular rig which comprises of a series of rack mounted effects, like, a compressor, a parametric eq, a delay system, a reverb system and an amp simulation unit, plus one or two occasional pedals. This rig I have been using extensively in the past 6 years with cubase and a focusrite on my previous laptop pc, and for 6 months on the same laptop with my RME Babyface pro FS.
When I used hi gain settings I did have background noise but now it is definitely louder and more clear that it is some kind of EMI or ground loop and came into existence with the new built (a desktop tower with a ryzen5 3600xt, on Asus prime b550m-wifi MB, gigabyte 1650 graphics)

I don't have the problem or at least it is not noticeable with clear settings with no excess of gain, but it bothers me because it was not there.
I include a video link that shows also the bios monitoring of the MB to see the relation of the noise to the changing of the cpu frequency and fans etc...

https://youtu.be/NTStE6LxNmc

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200
  • From: Sweden
  • Registered: 2013-12-25
  • Posts: 188

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

Hey
This has very little to do with your audio interface, as the interference is picked up by your guitar rack. I would suggest running through the rack, checking proper grounding and live/neutral connections (depending on country) and maybe also check the mains power to your studio.

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One
  • From: Greece
  • Registered: 2020-06-04
  • Posts: 92

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

ebmmbongo wrote:

Hey
This has very little to do with your audio interface, as the interference is picked up by your guitar rack. I would suggest running through the rack, checking proper grounding and live/neutral connections (depending on country) and maybe also check the mains power to your studio.


I thought I was clear.
The same rack when used with my laptop and my RME produces no noise at all even at high gains.
When I switch to the new pc I get what you see in the video.

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200
  • From: Sweden
  • Registered: 2013-12-25
  • Posts: 188

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

d.panagiotidis wrote:
ebmmbongo wrote:

Hey
This has very little to do with your audio interface, as the interference is picked up by your guitar rack. I would suggest running through the rack, checking proper grounding and live/neutral connections (depending on country) and maybe also check the mains power to your studio.


I thought I was clear.
The same rack when used with my laptop and my RME produces no noise at all even at high gains.
When I switch to the new pc I get what you see in the video.

Sorry, I did not understand that:)
So the problem is with your new PC then, and I don't know much about building computers so I will shut up now, hope you sort it out!

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One
  • mkok
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Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

It will be an earth loop. You do get noises like this. I remember the zipper noise as well in the past when moving things on screen. It will be related to the new pc. Did you use the laptop on mains or battery? I found with a laptop I had it was clean on battery but noisy on mains with all sorts of funny noises. I used a DI box which decouples them from each other. Other options are usb isolators which decouple the interface from the pc. I have one I used in the past but don’t use it with this pc so I’m not sure if the bf will work through one

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.
  • From: Greece
  • Registered: 2020-06-04
  • Posts: 92

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

mkok wrote:

It will be an earth loop. You do get noises like this. I remember the zipper noise as well in the past when moving things on screen. It will be related to the new pc. Did you use the laptop on mains or battery? I found with a laptop I had it was clean on battery but noisy on mains with all sorts of funny noises. I used a DI box which decouples them from each other. Other options are usb isolators which decouple the interface from the pc. I have one I used in the past but don’t use it with this pc so I’m not sure if the bf will work through one

The laptop was always on AC.
I have a DI box in input 2 and the guitar rack goes stereo in 3,4.
When I use a soft amp sim such as guitar rig or s-gear using input 2 through the DI I get less interference than through 3,4 BUT again more than what I was getting using the laptop.

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200

7 Reply by MetalHeadKeys (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2021-01-20 00:59:06)

  • Registered: 2019-10-01
  • Posts: 675

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

Hello!

This happens because of the fans in you new PC! As you might, allready, know, a fan's motion is created by electric current flowing through coils!
This creates an electromagnetic field that gets picked up by your guitar's pick-ups(no pun intended smile ) and amplified by whichever program you use!

If you turn the guitar away from facing your pc, the noise might decrease!
Some steps to try and tackle this as good as possible ,are:
Get a cable with good shielding, such as this: https://www.thomann.de/gb/sommer_cable_ … old_30.htm
Connect all your equipment to the same power outlet, using a good power strip!
Properly gain stage your guitar signal, i.e disable all your effects and check your guitar signal level in TotalMix.
                                                              Now, start turning your effects on, one by one and always make sure that the level remains exactly the same!
                                                               If, at the end of this procedure, you still require a bit of gain, turn up the gain from the BF Pro!

If you want to dig some more, there are, also, special paints with alunminium for the pick-ups cavities!
Also, if your guitar has a pickguard, there are special pickguards with aluminium underneath them, for the same reason!
There are, also, many DIY YouTube videos!

Another thing is that if you 're using single coil pickups, these are more susceptible to electromagnetic interference!
This is the reason why humbuckers got invented! For exactly that, to stop the hum by cancelling it out!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632
  • mkok
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Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

Good answer. Guitar pickups are susceptible to all sorts of induced noise

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.
  • From: Greece
  • Registered: 2020-06-04
  • Posts: 92

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

sorry to tell you it has nothing to do with that in my case.
The same happens with both single and humbucking pickups.

Cabling is of good quality and all suggested steps have been followed carefully as this rack is being built continously in the past 6 years with main goal it being as silent as possible.
All was OK until the new pc arrived.

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200
  • Registered: 2019-10-01
  • Posts: 675

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

Allright, then!

So, it's definitely a ground loop!

1st step, is to connect your guitar directly to your BF Pro! Do you have the same noise, then? If yes, then a Usb Isolator, as mkok suggested, might do the trick! Or a power conditioner, or a UPS might help, as well !

If you don't have the same noise, just by having only the guitar plugged in, then you have to follow
2nd step: Plug your guitar through your rack, but have all your pedals and effects disconnected from power!
                Start connecting them to power, one by one, and check when the noise gets introduced.
                When you find the suspect, try flipping its plug the other way(if it's one with 2 prongs), if that stops the noise, proceed with the next ones!

Also, you didn't say, if you have all your equipment(PC, guitar rack, PC Monitors, Audio Monitors, Keyboards) connected in the same power outlet!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632
  • From: Greece
  • Registered: 2020-06-04
  • Posts: 92

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

MetalHeadKeys wrote:

Allright, then!

So, it's definitely a ground loop!

1st step, is to connect your guitar directly to your BF Pro! Do you have the same noise, then? If yes, then a Usb Isolator, as mkok suggested, might do the trick! Or a power conditioner, or a UPS might help, as well !

If you don't have the same noise, just by having only the guitar plugged in, then you have to follow
2nd step: Plug your guitar through your rack, but have all your pedals and effects disconnected from power!
                Start connecting them to power, one by one, and check when the noise gets introduced.
                When you find the suspect, try flipping its plug the other way(if it's one with 2 prongs), if that stops the noise, proceed with the next ones!

Also, you didn't say, if you have all your equipment(PC, guitar rack, PC Monitors, Audio Monitors, Keyboards) connected in the same power outlet!

I cannot connect it directly because I do not have the power supply if that's what you mean.
If you mean bypassing the rig, of course there is no problem. It's only when hi gain is applied. And this is only through the rig.

Pc is on another extension, but from the same wall plug from the others, since I do not need the rig on at all times.

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200
  • Registered: 2019-10-01
  • Posts: 675

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

d.panagiotidis wrote:

Pc is on another extension, but from the same wall plug from the others, since I do not need the rig on at all times.

Ah, nice then!


d.panagiotidis wrote:

If you mean bypassing the rig, of course there is no problem. It's only when hi gain is applied. And this is only through the rig.

Yes, I meant bypassing the rig!

Hi Gain, also, means higher noise floor and amplification of EMI ! Eletric guitars act as antennas, because of the pickups.
If your rig involves any type of boosting, you might want to turn it off, when connecting to the BF Pro.
Boosting a tube amp, for example, does sound good because it pushes the tube which leads to more saturation and that is good!
But, boosting an instrument input doesn't have the same effect! It only amplifies the noise floor and any EMI.
So you need a different approach when connecting directly to the BF Pro!

Also, here 's a couple of YouTube videos where the same effect , such as yours, becomes apparent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYnShcgXO0M from 1:49 and onward

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6E0O8UtObU  this one deals with exactly the same situation

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632
  • From: Greece
  • Registered: 2020-06-04
  • Posts: 92

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

Bypassing the rig itself of course will bring down the noise level.
But this same rig with the hi gain works fine with the other computer.
I would not wonder about it had the other computer shown the same behaviour.

I have read about isolators but I do not know which ones and if they will work flawlessly with BF and cubase

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200
  • vinark
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Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

Can you try this? The babyface on its power adapter and listen to your rig on headphones only throug BF so no cubase or other software just the input. Disconnect usb, does the noise decrease? If yes we know the source of the noise, still could be difficult to solve but we'll try that once we are sure.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • cyrano
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Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

Just a wild guess...

The Focusrite might have less bandwidth on it's inputs. Could be because FR estimate most users will use 48 kHz SR anyways.

RME's inputs are full bandwidth for 192* kHz SR, so they're bound to pick up a lot more RFI noise.

And even higher for the Adi II Pro?

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  • From: Greece
  • Registered: 2020-06-04
  • Posts: 92

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

vinark wrote:

Can you try this? The babyface on its power adapter and listen to your rig on headphones only throug BF so no cubase or other software just the input. Disconnect usb, does the noise decrease? If yes we know the source of the noise, still could be difficult to solve but we'll try that once we are sure.

I do not have the power adapter.
I had thought of that test.
And unfortunately it is not readily available in my town. I have to order and wait.

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200
  • From: Greece
  • Registered: 2020-06-04
  • Posts: 92

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

cyrano wrote:

Just a wild guess...

The Focusrite might have less bandwidth on it's inputs. Could be because FR estimate most users will use 48 kHz SR anyways.

RME's inputs are full bandwidth for 192* kHz SR, so they're bound to pick up a lot more RFI noise.

And even higher for the Adi II Pro?


Focusrite?

I didn't say anything about FR.
The BF was on the old one and now is on the new one.
I had no problems then, I have now

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200
  • Registered: 2019-10-01
  • Posts: 675

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

Hello, everyone!!

@d.panagiotidis

I thought of another easy test!
Connect your BF Pro to your Laptop, connect your rig to the BF Pro, turn on your Desktop PC and check with your guitar in front of your desktop PC!

If you hear the noise, then turn off your desktop PC and check if it stops! If the noise is there, then it's from an outside source (cellphone company antenna? big facility ventilation system?). You 'll have to find another spot in your house/studio that doesn't affect your rig!
If the noise stops, it means that it's EMI from your desktop PC!

If you don't hear any noise in front of your desktop PC(turned on), while your BF Pro is connected to your laptop, then you will have to wait for the external power supply and check with that, as Vinark suggested.

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

19 Reply by d.panagiotidis (edited by d.panagiotidis 2021-01-21 08:21:43)

  • From: Greece
  • Registered: 2020-06-04
  • Posts: 92

Re: Audio background noise with RME Babyface connected to guitar Rack

MetalHeadKeys wrote:

Hello, everyone!!

@d.panagiotidis

I thought of another easy test!
Connect your BF Pro to your Laptop, connect your rig to the BF Pro, turn on your Desktop PC and check with your guitar in front of your desktop PC!

If you hear the noise, then turn off your desktop PC and check if it stops! If the noise is there, then it's from an outside source (cellphone company antenna? big facility ventilation system?). You 'll have to find another spot in your house/studio that doesn't affect your rig!
If the noise stops, it means that it's EMI from your desktop PC!

If you don't hear any noise in front of your desktop PC(turned on), while your BF Pro is connected to your laptop, then you will have to wait for the external power supply and check with that, as Vinark suggested.

Ok I will do that
At the moment I am expecting a delivery of a long hdmi cable so that I can distance the pc from the rack

Dimitris
Ryzen5 3600XT, Nvidia 1650, Win 10, Cubase 11 pro, BBF ProFS, Rode NT1a, CC121, ADA8200