Thank you so much, Ramses and I was totally wrong about all of it.
You're welcome. It makes sense to ask what someone wants to do and finally it is also also interesting for me, because I also wanted to see whether something like such a mix desk would be useful or to discuss pros and cons.
After putting much time now into it I tend to say that I wouldn't like such a solution. And currently I even do not see the advantages for you. Even if you would connect external preamps or would use a mixbus then I have doubts whether this is the way to go, because if I look at technical specs, they are relatively low compared to RME equipment.
Maybe explainable for an analog Mixing Desk .. But if I see the flexibility of TM FX routing and e.g. also the very comfortably handling of external devices even in Cubase, then I tend to say "save the money for this" and rather than that try to connect such devices as close as possible to the digitally connected devices with superb converter chips.
I personally would consequently spend the money more for such things:
get an ARC USB to be able to work very comfortably with the TM FX control room
get an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE to get the most out of your monitors and phones and having very useful features on top, that no other device can give you on the market for that price
while talking about monitors and phones .. I would not add analog signal paths, I would optimize the equipment in terms of signal flows and useability and more think about investing into maybe even better monitors, room acoustic, phones. I think this gives you more total quality than simply thinking to have a summing console alone give you more quality / mojo, in fact it results in worse SNR/THD values, thats all I can see ..
What I did not know:
- ADAT units do not use UFX DA converter, it use their own.
- There is no way I can extend the use of my 'UFX' DA conversion, basically I need a seperate additional DA units for extra outputs for multi-channel summing or analog console integration.
Audio signals need to be converted to digital, before they can be processed digital (be it for routing or transport).
Therefore you will see in every technical manual from RME about mic preamps and converters a section about A/D and sometimes also D/A (for phones or appropriate outputs in case of a converter). Check the RME manuals and you will see.
Now I sort of got it...
hmm. It seems to me, I need much more saving for it.
I am not sure ... later you say you need only 8 outputs ... if it is only like that .. why MADI ?
(And probably, ADI-8 DS Mk3 have better conversion chip than my old UFX mk1... haha)
You can check the RME manuals yourself at any time on your own to get more clarity ... Every manual has the chapters
- "Technical Specification" and
- "Latency and Monitoring"
The 1st gives you not only SNR and THD, but also information about the different input sensitivities and output levels (reference levels) that the device supports for AD and DA. This is interesting information in terms of how good this matches to your other equipment with the goal to get optimum SNR values.
The latter gives you information about how fast the AD and DA converters are at different sample rates. The newer converters are usually faster resulting in even less latency (for routing on the device to phones or between analog inputs and outputs).
Ooh, I need spend more, thanks for clarification.
Your reply really cleared everything.
This was not as easy/simple as I thought.
You're welcome. And still it stays interesting if you need only 8 analog outputs .. see below.
It could be smarter to replace my centre converter just like you said (UFX with UFX+ or UFX2)...
or my other budget friendly/compromised option could be, get 8-channel summing box and at most,
use 8 outs from my UFX.
Careful an UFX II would not help. Why ? It has the same channel layout as the UFX.
you are right, if I really want to go there, and execute analog console integration,
it is time for me to go for 'MADI' connection...
If you only need 8 Analog output channels and fewer input channels then you do not need MADI.
So, it is not true, that ADAT units always use their own DA converter correct...? (even it is connected via UFX)
Get a piece of paper. Draw two boxes. Recording interface and AD/DA converter. Draw one bigger line between them to represent digital transfer of 8 ch at single speed. Draw the ports for analog inputs and outputs on the converter. On the inputs write "A/D". On the output write "D/A". Between those two boxes (UFX and ADDA converter) we have digital transfer of audio data. Inside of the UFX we have digital transfer of audio data (the routing matrix / TotalMix FX). Inside of the AD/DA converter we have digital transfer of data when routing audio to a phones output.
And one more thing, if connected via ADAT, does it degrade conversion or it totally depends on the quality of the DA conversion of 'that' specific unit? (ADI-8 DS mk3 must be supreme)
Digital data transfer is lossless. What counts:
- quality of AD/DA conversion
- jitter free transport.
RME is in both cases excallent and in terms of jitter elemination you should make yourself familiar with the concept of Steady Clock, thats an invention from RME. More information about this interesting topic you can get here on youtube. Last recently Matthias releases very valuable information what it brings to you ... in short, a lot !
Please see here: https://www.rme-audio.de/steadyclock-fs.html
RMEs philosophy here is to make a very accurate conversion from analog to digital and digital to analog. Without adding any "mojo". Your true analog audio signal is being converted to digital "as best as possible. And once it is digital, then digital processing like routing or transport between devices through ADAT, SPDIF, AES, MADI, AVB, .. is possible without any loss.
Also, ADI-8 DS mk3 could be a good option 'but' I do not need 8 inputs... I only need 8 outputs..
*one thing to correct myself, UFX can have max 12 outputs with 2 headphone outs as 2 stereo outs
After reading the manuals of the SSL summing system it appears to me that you need 8 analog inputs and outputs and best is if your devices have DB-25 plugs according to the Tascam standard.
Please check yourself the specification and different use cases as described in the installation manual for the SSL device.
https://www.solidstatelogic.com/assets/ … _Guide.pdf
Based on the Example 4 in this manual I think that 8 inputs and outputs should be sufficient.
But from the technical specification I am not so impressed, so that I would try to avoid using such a console and as I mentioned I would put the money into other improvements. But thats my view on things, your mileage may vary.
So find below the Drawing from SSL and my comments to it.
I collected and put together technical Specs for comparison. I think you are better off connecting all straight to RME devices and then work with TM FX in terms of routing. And as I said, Cubase has meanwhile nice comfortably handling of external devices including something like a "ping" to measure the delay by this ...
Here different scenarios .. I still need time to make the final drawing for you which I would go for.
But maybe this highlights to you the different possibilities ..
So please wait for my final drawing it needs still some time...
BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13