• Registered: 2021-04-15
  • Posts: 23

Topic: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

Hello,
I have just received a Babyface Pro FS and I'm using it on a Windows 10 computer.

I had a question regarding 28.3 in the manual. I understand that the goal is to get the Babyface on its own bus to avoid disturbances, but my system doesn't seem to correspond to what's listed in the manual.

Though I do have USB 2.0 ports on my system, I'm not seeing any "USB2 Enhanced Host Controller" listings per the manual. I seem to have a single "USB 3.1 eXtensible Host Controller" with a "USB Root Hub (USB 3.0)" underneath that. The Babyface (which I've plugged into a 2.0 port) is listed under this hub. (see link for image)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/769x6kmruixyf1y/usb.jpg?dl=0


When I double-click on the Babyface listing, it says it's on Port_#0004 Hub_#0003. All the other listings are also Hub_#0003.

- Does this mean the Babyface cannot have an isolated controller on this system as there is only a single controller? Will this cause issues?
- Is there any advantage to switching the Babyface to a USB-C port vs. UBS-2? (For example, more consistent, higher power provided to the interface via USB-C?)

Thanks for your help

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Online
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,437

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

The information in the manual is no longer valid for modern (more complicated) designs and OS, they no longer show the two USB 2.0 hubs. Your notebook seems to be a current one. If it has Thunderbolt then you can easily connect further USB hubs via external adapters, for full isolation.

Using a USB-C port might also help. While Device Manager will list the unit again at the same hub, a tool like USBTreeView might reveal that it sits on its own hub now.

https://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtreeview_e.html

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2021-04-15
  • Posts: 23

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

Hi Mattias,

I'm using USB Tree Viewer, but I'm not quite sure how to interpret the results. Could you take a look at the screenshots? It seems to list 3 host controllers on my system but I'm not sure what's going on.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wf4wwd9m3eryo … e.jpg?dl=0

- The top screenshot shows the Babyface attached to the USB-C front panel port of my computer. (I also have a USB-C port on the rear panel)
- The second shows the Babyface connected to a USB-C port of a PCI Thunderbolt card.

This is a desktop PC (not a laptop) using an MSI Z390 GAMING EDGE AC motherboard. The motherboard has a Thunderbolt connector, and I've installed a PCI Thunderbolt card into it. (Gigabyte alpine ridge, which has 2 USB Type-C ports) My previous audio interface (UAD Arrow Thunderbolt 3) had numerous issues. (Which is why I got the Babyface)

The Babyface seems to be working on the Thunderbolt card, but I'm a bit cautious about using this card as Thunderbolt seems to have some bugs to iron out on PC.

Thanks for your expertise.

  • mkok
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2020-11-04
  • Posts: 623

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

Is it not working correctly? I just plugged mine into a spare port and it works just fine

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

5 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Online
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,437

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

Both pics look good to me. Sharing with mouse and keyboard is usually no issue, and on TB the unit is alone.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2021-04-15
  • Posts: 23

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

Hi Matthias,

It seems the issues I've been having with audio (occasional, random clicks or pops) are not the result of the audio interface or bus interference. The conclusion using the LatencyMon app is that my system is not "suitable for real-time audio and other tasks". I get this message after running the app for less than a minute or so: (see link)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtcv8u5h0xu75 … n.jpg?dl=0

The issue seems to be the graphics card (Nvidia 2080Ti) driver causing these spikes, which occur after running the app for less than a minute. I've removed and reinstalled the driver, as well as applying several "tuning Windows for audio" suggestions found on the net (for example, setting the card to use Message Signaled-Based Interrupts, power management, etc.) but nothing seems to change. It's really frustrating.

Thanks for your help.

7 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Online
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,437

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

Yes, 1.1 ms is too much, especially from the graphics card. What motherboard is that? You could try older driver versions, though.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

8 Reply by slothkins (edited by slothkins 2021-04-22 06:54:34)

  • Registered: 2021-04-15
  • Posts: 23

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

It's an MSI mpg-z390-gaming-edge AC with an Intel 9900k CPU.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/mpg-z390-gaming-edge-ac

I  disabled the Nvidia card and used the integrated GPU. I then tested with LatencyMon and had no spikes after running the app for 20 minutes, so it definitely seems to be related to the Nvidia card.

I installed an older driver with the Nvidia card and there was no change. I guess I could keep randomly trying old drivers, but that seems like a dead-end. I've never found using old drivers to be a long-term solution to an issue, and I need to keep my video drivers up to date for 3d work.

I'd consider getting a new graphics card to see if that would fix it, but the graphics card market is going to be impossible for another year, it seems.

Besides this issue, the system runs well, with no issues doing 3d work, gaming...
It's a bit depressing, to tell you the truth!

I've been searching for other people with this issue for solutions, but nothing...

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,869

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

Did you try the nVidia Studio driver? This is the driver variant which is optimized for Creative Sofware (OpenGL) and allows the use of 10 bit, with a corresponding screen. The basic driver is basically the same, which means you can also play with the Studio Driver without any problems. The Studio Driver does not receive updates as often as the GRD.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,738

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

What I have read, is that forcing the nvidia card to run at full speed helps. I am not 100% sure but in the nvidia control panel you can set per application graphic acceleration settings. You must then set your audio app to use maximum performance always.
I hope it will help!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2021-04-15
  • Posts: 23

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried both studio and regular drivers (I usually use the studio drivers) but there isn't a difference in this case.

I'm getting this latency issue even at startup with no audio applications open, so it's not really application-specific.

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,738

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

That is the point, Some nvdias are only low dpc latency when running at full speed and not throttling at all. Same can be true for the cpu in a laptop but that is not your issue since dpc is fine with the onboard.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2021-04-15
  • Posts: 23

Re: Question about 28.3 USB Audio from the Babyface Pro manual

Hi Daw Mastermind,

I get what you're saying. I have Global Settings in the Nvidia control panel set to Prefer maximum performance under power management (which will then apply to all applications that do not have a specific power management applied to them). It has no effect, unfortunately.