1 Topic by laubyhatred (edited by laubyhatred 2021-04-21 12:01:08)

  • Registered: 2021-04-21
  • Posts: 11

Topic: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

Hi there, first post here.
Can I plug a mixer (Yamaha MG 12/4) into the Babyface?
From the mixer monitor Outs it would go to the two Line Ins of the babyface and then, of course, to the PC.
That way I would have all my instruments plugged in as I have now.
I know that I can have a Octamic (or other channel preamp) plugged via adat for that purpose but I got used to manually use the mixer faders to adjust volumes, gain, eq, etc. I have the Mic, bass (DI), guitar preamp and a SM57 plugged in the mixer and it would be nice to keep it that way, at least for now.
I don't discard the preamp option via adat in the future but would like to know what are the cons and if this method is even possible.

I plan to acquire the Babyface soon and I'm planning the possible configurations.

Another question would be: If the mixer -> Babyface method is possible (or advisable), would I, then, have two masters? Should I then keep, say, the mixer in a fair amount of volume (for headroom) and having the babyface controlling what it comes out after?

Thank you very much

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-04-21 13:20:19)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,173

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

But then you can only record the stereo sum from the mixer, not so useful. Normally, you record each track separately, if possible, to allow post-processing of tracks and to be able to mix the song properly and to master it at the very end.

How high are your demands/goals on recording, mixing, mastering? So if you don't need a track of post-processing etc. and you think you can manage like that, then you could do it like that. It's not the usual way, but to simply record the stereo sum it should work.

If you intend to invest into a RME recording interface anyway, then I would really consider to buy one which has all required inputs and outputs and exclude the hardware mixer from the setup.

You will get better overall quality (sound, features, low latency) and more flexibility/options by this.
With TM FX it's also a much easier workflow possible, as you can store/recall routing and all settings digitally, very easy to use.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

3 Reply by laubyhatred (edited by laubyhatred 2021-04-21 13:43:50)

  • Registered: 2021-04-21
  • Posts: 11

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

Thank you for the reply, ramses.
I record for quite a few years now. I know the procedure to do that.

If you want, you can listen some of my work here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnEHrRs … LauFonseca

But I've always used this method and, truth be said, is quite practical to adjust parameters on the fly without minimizing windows on the PC or having mixers on top of the DAW... I simply don't see youtubers or other home studios with this setup. And as I'm planning on upgrade the audio interface (I have an old one in the PCIe) I'm just questioning every possibilities.

As for recording, I will record one instrument at a time, as I normally do. I have all channels of the mixer muted except for the instrument that I'm recording. So, in reality I just use the mixer as a multichannel platform to have all the instruments plugged in at same time (for convenience) but I will just let the signal that I want/need come through to the AI and then the PC.

Thank you for the suggestion (a rackmount RME with more I/O options) but that way I loose the flexibility that I'm used to now. It's almost the same as the rack pre into the Babyface by adat as I mentioned before.
Would be more convenient if this mixer/Babyface was viable and use the spare money to invest on other gear.

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,173

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

I couldn't and didn't want to work that way, because you couldn't adjust anything in the mix afterwards. Be it in the area of the level of the instruments, positioning in the mix and what not. In the DAW you could even consequently store/recall/adjust your typical inserts and settings for every instrument / track, create a recording template etc.
With RME you would have much better Mic Pres and also the technical data of the all I/O ports would be much better.
You're just giving away opportunities that are there. But everyone as he likes.

Regarding your question, I don't know what levels your mixer works with. Just make sure you don't overdrive the ports and everything will be fine.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

5 Reply by laubyhatred (edited by laubyhatred 2021-04-21 14:00:17)

  • Registered: 2021-04-21
  • Posts: 11

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

I guess you're right.
Maybe I just have to embrace the options and flexibility that a modernized digital environment can provide.

Thank you for the help.

6 Reply by laubyhatred (edited by laubyhatred 2021-04-21 15:18:13)

  • Registered: 2021-04-21
  • Posts: 11

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

But... just for the record (no pun intended). I can mix everything just fine in the DAW. As I've said, the mixer is only a device to have multiple instruments connected at once just to not have to unplug/plug an instrument everytime I want to use it.
Once the signal come from the instrument to the mixer, it goes to the AI, than to the PC and in the DAW gets recorded and I can do wathever I want with it as if I had the instrument plugged right into the AI.

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-04-21 15:30:51)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,173

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

laubyhatred wrote:

But... just for the record (no pun intended)

Don't worry, all is fine.

laubyhatred wrote:

As I've said, the mixer is only a device to have multiple instruments connected at once just to not have to unplug/plug an instrument everytime I want to use it. Once the signal come from the instrument to the mixer, it goes to the AI, than to the PC and in the DAW gets recorded and can do wathever I want with it as if I had the instrument plugged right into the AI.

Ok, this sounds as if you connect the mixer through USB and use it like a recording interface ?
But what do you want to do with the Babyface then ? A DAW can only load ONE audio driver at a time.
Either the one from the BBF Pro OR the one from the Mixer.

Initially you told:

laubyhatred wrote:

Can I plug a mixer (Yamaha MG 12/4) into the Babyface?

Based on this statement I assumed your signal flow is this
PC <-----USB2--- BBF Pro---AnalogIN3/4-----AUX OUT---- Mixer------+ Instr 1..n
Therefore I said, this way you get only the stereo sum of your mixer recorded with the Babyface.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,504

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

Please allow me to give a little input.
@Lau
Replacing your existing PCI audiointerface with a Babyface is a good idea for improving soundquality and workflow inside the computer.
You will still use your mixer as before, no upgrade no downgrade.
One day you find out that a multi I/o interface is much more comfortable for the studio setup.
The main thing I want to point out is the mobility factor of the Babyface.
Together with an akkupack and an iPad or iPhone you can do recordings outside !
Put all in the guitar bag and record the guitar somwhere outside in the middle of the night at the river or in a park, in professional studio quality.
Having a friend with a second headphone and a Bass-guitar you even can do a recording session outside !
This is a kind of freedom you must check out !

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2021-04-21
  • Posts: 11

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

ramses wrote:
laubyhatred wrote:

But... just for the record (no pun intended)

Don't worry, all is fine.

laubyhatred wrote:

As I've said, the mixer is only a device to have multiple instruments connected at once just to not have to unplug/plug an instrument everytime I want to use it. Once the signal come from the instrument to the mixer, it goes to the AI, than to the PC and in the DAW gets recorded and can do wathever I want with it as if I had the instrument plugged right into the AI.

Ok, this sounds as if you connect the mixer through USB and use it like a recording interface ?
But what do you want to do with the Babyface then ? A DAW can only load ONE audio driver at a time.
Either the one from the BBF Pro OR the one from the Mixer.

Initially you told:

laubyhatred wrote:

Can I plug a mixer (Yamaha MG 12/4) into the Babyface?

Based on this statement I assumed your signal flow is this
PC <-----USB2--- BBF Pro---AnalogIN3/4-----AUX OUT---- Mixer------+ Instr 1..n
Therefore I said, this way you get only the stereo sum of your mixer recorded with the Babyface.

Nope, no USB on the mixer.
I want the Babyface to be the AI.
Imagine you have one guitar (preamp), one bass (DI) and two Mics.
If you have two of these plugged into the Babyface, you, obviously, have to unplug the first two to plug the other ones.
In the mixer, all are plugged in and I simple unmute the one I want the signal to come to the AI.
Is that simple.
i have this setup right now (with a AI in the PCIe of the PC).

10 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-04-21 16:11:41)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,173

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

Ok, now I got it. You use the mixer alone and you are recording every track single.
I thought that you might play together with frieds as you didn't detail this if I remember right ...

The only advice that I would give you is this. If you should think about replacing the Mixer entirely with a RME recording interface now or in the near future AND if you would like to pre-cable everything like you did it with the Mixer.
Check whether the BBF Pro has enough ports.

side note: mobility is maybe not the primary reason, why he choosed the BBF Pro (see analog mixer .. it's also not mobile).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2021-04-21
  • Posts: 11

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

waedi wrote:

Please allow me to give a little input.
@Lau
Replacing your existing PCI audiointerface with a Babyface is a good idea for improving soundquality and workflow inside the computer.
You will still use your mixer as before, no upgrade no downgrade.
One day you find out that a multi I/o interface is much more comfortable for the studio setup.
The main thing I want to point out is the mobility factor of the Babyface.
Together with an akkupack and an iPad or iPhone you can do recordings outside !
Put all in the guitar bag and record the guitar somwhere outside in the middle of the night at the river or in a park, in professional studio quality.
Having a friend with a second headphone and a Bass-guitar you even can do a recording session outside !
This is a kind of freedom you must check out !

Right. Thats it!
I've imagined it would be the same but, for instance, someone could perhaps say... Don't do it! You will loose the magnific RMEs preamps!
Or... You will have two masters (mix and Babyface ) and is not advisable.

Yes, the portability is a great advantage. I will use this primarily in my home studio but I do not discard the possibility of take it out when in need. The mixer is just to have all plugged in and use it to select what I want to come through to the AI but, in a different enviroment, it stays put and just go the Babyface.

  • Registered: 2021-04-21
  • Posts: 11

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

ramses wrote:

Ok, now I got it. You use the mixer alone and you are recording every track single.
I thought that you might play together with frieds as you didn't detail this if I remember right ...

The only advice that I would give you is this. If you should think about replacing the Mixer entirely with a RME recording interface now or in the near future AND if you would like to pre-cable everything like you did it with the Mixer.
Check whether the BBF Pro has enough ports.

side note: mobility is maybe not the primary reason, why he choosed the BBF Pro (see analog mixer .. it's also not mobile).

Yes, ramses, the mixer is just for praticality. Of course if I intend to take the Babyface out, I will have to use it as it is. Then, invest in a preamp rack with adat is optimal.
The Babyface, as far as I know, will take 12 output and 12 input channels. So, more than enough for my purposes in this moment.
Thank you for your advices.

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,772

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

I have a multichannel interface and everything connected to its own input.... But I am thinking of adding a mixer and using that for all my gear just as you and only use my babyface Instead of my 16 adat inputs hdsp9652. So I find it a nice way to work too using a mixer. I like the flexibility of an old school mixer or even a digital mixer. Adding a little gain or eq or high pass when needed.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

14 Reply by laubyhatred (edited by laubyhatred 2021-04-21 16:52:16)

  • Registered: 2021-04-21
  • Posts: 11

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

vinark wrote:

I have a multichannel interface and everything connected to its own input.... But I am thinking of adding a mixer and using that for all my gear just as you and only use my babyface Instead of my 16 adat inputs hdsp9652. So I find it a nice way to work too using a mixer. I like the flexibility of an old school mixer or even a digital mixer. Adding a little gain or eq or high pass when needed.

That's right vinark.
With the mixer by my side, I make fine adjustments on the fly without have to go to the mouse, minimize windows, select faders, increment volumes in the digital mixer... I make everything quite fast and is almost intuitive.
If I am playing over a track and I need the guitar to become higher in volume, just give a bump in the preamp channel fader on the mixer. If the next track is lower, same, fader a bit down. Same with EQ or other tools in the mixer. This without even touch the PC mouse. I'm constantly manipulating volumes and, I don't discard at all using the TotalMix, but for this details and little increments, the mixer by my side is quite useful and practical

15 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-04-21 17:12:23)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,173

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

Ok, we have different workflows. Recording is for me simply recording, all adjustments come later.
With AUTOSET the recording interface chooses automatically the proper level.
Once this has been found I store the value digitally in TM FX snapshots.
And as I always use the same gear, I have all these values stored digitally so that I have near zero adjustments.
I use humbucker and single coil guitars and am using two different INSTR inputs,
Input 9 for humbuckers, input 10 for single coil with 3dB higher gain on the instr input.

In the old days I also used an analog mixer, see here: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … -DURec-DE/
But I got entirely rid of it.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2021-04-21
  • Posts: 11

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

ramses wrote:

Ok, we have different workflows. Recording is for me simply recording, all adjustments come later.
With AUTOSET the recording interface chooses automatically the proper level.
Once this has been found I store the value digitally in TM FX snapshots.
And as I always use the same gear, I have all these values stored digitally so that I have near zero adjustments.
I use humbucker and single coil guitars and am using two different INSTR inputs,
Input 9 for humbuckers, input 10 for single coil with 3dB higher gain on the instr input.

In the old days I also used an analog mixer, see here: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … -DURec-DE/
But I got entirely rid of it.

Of course. To each his own.
I don't discard going full digital sometime in the future but, as I find having a mixer by my side quite useful, but not seeing that setup nearly anywhere (at least with a Babyface), hence my question.

  • Registered: 2019-10-01
  • Posts: 675

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

Hello, everyone!

laubyhatred wrote:

Imagine you have one guitar (preamp), one bass (DI) and two Mics.
If you have two of these plugged into the Babyface, you, obviously, have to unplug the first two to plug the other ones.

Nope, this is not the case!
The BF Pro FS has 2 XLR(Mic/Line) Inputs and 2 Line/Hi-Z Inputs!

So, you can have all of the above connected!
2 Mics -> XLR(AN1 and AN2),
bass -> Hi-Z Input(AN3)
and Gtr Preamp -> Line Input(AN4) or Gtr directly to Hi-Z Input(AN4)

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632
  • Registered: 2021-04-21
  • Posts: 11

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

MetalHeadKeys wrote:

Hello, everyone!


Nope, this is not the case!
The BF Pro FS has 2 XLR(Mic/Line) Inputs and 2 Line/Hi-Z Inputs!

So, you can have all of the above connected!
2 Mics -> XLR(AN1 and AN2),
bass -> Hi-Z Input(AN3)
and Gtr Preamp -> Line Input(AN4) or Gtr directly to Hi-Z Input(AN4)

Right...
That was just an example. I just meant several instruments plugged (whatever number) to have better access to volumes on the fly.
Nothing special.
I plan to use a preamp with adat in the future but, meanwhile, I would like to have all plugged in one place and with the flexibility of changing volumes and whatnot right by my side.

Thank you.

  • Registered: 2019-10-01
  • Posts: 675

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

Ooops, sorry!
I took the example. literally! I thought that was what you needed!

An external 8channel preamp/converter via ADAT is, indeed, the way to go!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

20 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-04-27 06:20:56)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Online
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,173

Re: Mixer with Babyface Pro FS

laubyhatred wrote:

That was just an example. I just meant several instruments plugged (whatever number) to have better access to volumes on the fly.

"whatever number" is maybe a bit too high wink

It would be more helpful to know your concrete requirements. For this, it is necessary that you make a list of which analog and digital inputs and outputs you need at least, where you might want to have some reserves for the future, so that a suitable device can be recommended to you.

Type of port        | # of ports needed in parallel  |  additional reserve ports
---------------------+--------------------------------------+----------------------------------
Analog inputs
Analog outputs
Mic inputs
Instrument inputs
Phones outputs
ADAT IN
ADAT OUT
SPDIF IN
SPDIF OUT
MIDI
MADI IN
MADI OUT

If you don't want to commit yourself to a certain number of channels that you need, if you already need a considerable number of analog ports (including "whatever number" of instrument inputs) and if you already want to use an ADAT expansion port with external preamp, I would recommend a recording interface that offers you the necessary flexibility. There is only one device that offers all these possibilities and more: UFX+.

It's also an advantage to have a high number of ports directly built-in into a recording interface, because if you should work with a higher sample rate than single speed, then you do not loose ports by multiplexing channels (which is the case for ADAT and MADI). Example: ADAT supports 8ch@44.1/48 kHz, but only 4 and 2 ch. in double (88.2/96) and quad speed (up to 192 kHz). This issue you do not have with all the analog ports, that are directly connected to your recording interface.

On the front you have 4 ports, that can be used as Mic, Line and Instrument input.
Then you have 8 analog inputs and outputs on the back.
Two phones outputs.
One AES and two ADAT inputs and outputs.
MADI which allows you to connect usually up to 8 additional devices (Preamps, Converters, ADAT ports) as you need up to 64ch at single speed and 32ch at double speed.

The UFX+ is the flagship of RME interfaces giving you quality and a lot of options:
- AUTOSET for preamps and Instr inputs
- DURec as backup or standalone recording possibility to an USB storage medium (external USB/SSD disk or stick)
- in standalone mode fully operateable by the display
- USB port on the back that allows connection of the "ARC USB" remote directly, also for stand-alone operation

You also have a lot of flexibility to connect to the PC bei either
- USB2 (without MADI)
- USB3 (all channels)
- Thunderbolt (all channels)

On top all the capabilities that RME offers:
- DIGIcheck
- TotalMix FX Remote to be able to operate TM FX from a remote Windows PC or Tablet

You can get an overview about the technical data here from my excel and compare features with other USB/FW/TB devices:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … B-MADIfac/
Direct link to the Excel: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 0-08-xlsx/

If you need some information about the UFX+ and how flexible it can be used:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … 8-RME-UFX/
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … arren-Rig/
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … -DURec-DE/
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … Cber-MADI/
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … XTC-DE-EN/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14