• Registered: 2021-05-11
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Topic: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

I am an e-drummer who uses a Roland module to trigger VST drum samples on my MacBook Pro over MIDI/USB. I use a previous-generation Babyface Pro to loopback the VST output mixed with an external mic (so I can play over Zoom with my drum instructor, etc.). Everything works great.

The Babyface Pro is being moved to another computer, which means that I need a new audio interface for my e-drumming setup.

I'm looking for an interface with the lowest possible latency, first to keep the "immediate" e-drumming feel, and second to keep the total latencies as low as possible when I try to jam over the internet (using software like Jamulus, etc.).

I've been looking at the newer Babyface Pro FS and the Fireface UCX. They both appear to support my single mic and internal loopback features, so no worries there.

However, I'm wondering if there is any latency difference between those two units, realizing that the Fireface UCX can also be connected via USB or FireWire. Is one unit more up-to-date/faster in this situation? For e-drumming, 1 or 2ms can make a noticeable difference, which is why I'm asking.

I haven't been able to find a thread that addresses this specific issue, and I hope that someone can assist.

  • ramses
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

Does your MacBook Pro also support Thunderbolt ?  What is your max budget for such a solution ?

I assume you do not have a thunderbolt based external expansion cabinet for PCIe cards, so that you need to look for a recording interface with USB2 or USB3 or Thunderbolt, correct ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2021-05-11
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

It supports Thunderbolt 2, so I can use FireWire with the Apple Thunderbolt 2 to FireWire adapter, if necessary.

I don't have an external expansion cabinet, and I think that's a little further than I'd like to go. Preferably, I'd like to limit my connection options to the built-in USB2 and FireWire/Thunderbolt ports.

My budget could probably go as high as a Fireface UFX+ if it provided a meaningfully improved latency story. Otherwise, I'm probably in the Fireface UCX/Babyface Pro FS range.

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-05-11 22:27:25)

  • ramses
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

I can only speak for Windows. Here you can see lowest RTL when using UFX+ and Thunderbolt.
I compared different solutions that I use/used.
The values for thunderbolt I got from another forum member.

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/2343-UFX-UFX-RayDAT-Latencies-v2-jpg/

Please note in the table above. For HDSPe MADI FX and RayDAT PCIe cards you need to add the converter conversion time for A/D and D/A which are connected through MADI, ADAT.
So the lowest latencies you get with the UFX+ using thunderbolt (next best USB3).

Maybe for Apple its a similar story.

And I see some advantages with thunderbolt:
- highly effiicient as this is external PCIe
- the thunderbolt driver (at least the ASIO driver) still supports the pitch function

Besides that the UFX+ got many improvements over the old flagship UFX, see here a summary in my blog:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … 8-RME-UFX/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • mkok
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

I use the Babyface pro fs for edrums (td30) into a pc. I run buffers at 64 and get just under 3ms output latency at 44.1khz

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-05-12 08:32:37)

  • ramses
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

mkok wrote:

I use the Babyface pro fs for edrums (td30) into a pc. I run buffers at 64 and get just under 3ms output latency at 44.1khz

Ok, if you only look at the output latency .. the UFX+ with thunderbolt has then
2.0 ms output latency using 64 samples @44.1 kHz
1.3 ms output latency using 32 samples @44.1 kHz

There are computers having no issues with only 32 samples buffersize.

The old USB driver for babyfaces has only 48 samples ASIO buffersize as minimum for Windows.
Maybe different under Apple, I can not tell, sorry.

The UFX+ has a lot of very nice features, it's simply the best choice, a fantastic product.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • mkok
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

The current windows lowest usb driver buffer settings is still 48

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

8 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-05-12 16:17:43)

  • ramses
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

mkok wrote:

The current windows lowest usb driver buffer settings is still 48

Yes for the "old" USB driver.
For the newer MADIface driver (supporting other USB transfer modes) this is 32 samples.

With Apple it might be similar, you need to check, I simply hoped that this information is generally useful.

As I proposed UFX+ / TB anyway, I left out this information about USB...

BTW .. if you are interested, here you can find information about some tests on my computer with a Cubase DAW project with a lot of tracks (400) and VSTs (800) using 32 samples ASIO buffersize at 44.1 and 96 kHz using UFX+ with USB3 and RayDAT (PCIe): https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … cks-de-en/

With the UFX+ I also did already some testing / recording playing an VSTi (virtual Kuassa guitar amp) up to 256 samples ASIO buffersize possible, but 128 feels better as you have then an RTL (input and output latency) of under 10ms.

If budget allows an UFX+ TB based solution would be very fine and even USB3 is well and if you do not require MADI regulary you can use it even as USB2 interface for 60 ports in and out.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2021-05-26
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

Is it possible to use the "Remote-Midi"-Input on the UCX for Roland V-drums (f.e. TD17)? The main Midi Input would already be used for keys in my case.

10 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2021-05-26 08:38:17)

  • waedi
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

the main midi has two midi inputs so you can connect and use the V-drum and another device at the same time.
The remote input is for remote device only.
https://www.rme-audio.de/files/uploads/ … -Cable.jpg

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

11 Reply by NordMarkus (edited by NordMarkus 2021-05-26 08:48:19)

  • Registered: 2021-05-26
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

Cool, thanks a lot. And this is possible with the standard rme breakout-cable? (Is the one of your picture in scope of delivery?)

  • waedi
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

Yes this is the original RME Midi breakout cable 2 midi IN / 2 midi OUT, it is part of the packing and comes with the box.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2021-05-26
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Re: Lowest Latency for E-Drumming

waedi wrote:

Yes this is the original RME Midi breakout cable 2 midi IN / 2 midi OUT, it is part of the packing and comes with the box.

Thank you