• ramses
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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

Bernd, they offer it as a bundle, this does not mean that you can load VSTs to the recording interface or into TotalMix FX.
But of course you can use those VST/VSTi in your DAW or some of them maybe also stand-alone.
Anyway it's still great, this is an additional worth of several hundred Dollars that you get for free.
The Brainworks mastering VST alone costs around $299 and this is a real great mastering VST ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • spnc
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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

Well that's a bummer the RME UCX II is officially discontinued.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_fireface_ucx_ii.htm

https://i.ibb.co/9wTmnzc/Screenshot-2022-07-16-at-01-52-31.png

53 Reply by MC

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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

Good grief -  'officially discontinued' can only be if WE say that is the case.

But the opposite is true. That Thomann info is just a bit misleading in wording. The UCX II will be back with them too.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

54 Reply by spnc (edited by spnc 2022-07-16 17:10:11)

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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

MC wrote:

Good grief -  'officially discontinued' can only be if WE say that is the case.

But the opposite is true. That Thomann info is just a bit misleading in wording. The UCX II will be back with them too.

Communications still not on point as I see it... would be nice to be telling these simple things to your customers... how are we supposed to know whether it's a global chip shortage or an actual discontinuation??

  • Registered: 2022-10-06
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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

I'm curious - why doesn't UCX II have USB (3/thunderbolt) Type-C like UFX+ does? For a device released in 2021 that's kinda weird.

  • ramses
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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

HardRock wrote:

I'm curious - why doesn't UCX II have USB (3/thunderbolt) Type-C like UFX+ does? For a device released in 2021 that's kinda weird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSIf4QGYs-c

It should be known by now that RME only uses the I/O that is really necessary according to the bandwidth requirement in terms of number of channels.

Then customers have the advantage of being able to connect and use the recording interface on as many devices as possible (not every device has thunderbolt).

RME manages around 68 channels with USB2. So, why should they use Thunderbolt, which would only drive up the costs unnecessarily and raise unnecessary requirements to have thunderbolt in their computer.

Other manufacturers use thunderbolt because they didn't get it, managed to write capable drivers for USB or because they live in the Apple cloud of devices / connections.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2022-10-06
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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

ramses wrote:
HardRock wrote:

I'm curious - why doesn't UCX II have USB (3/thunderbolt) Type-C like UFX+ does? For a device released in 2021 that's kinda weird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSIf4QGYs-c

It should be known by now that RME only uses the I/O that is really necessary according to the bandwidth requirement in terms of number of channels.

Then customers have the advantage of being able to connect and use the recording interface on as many devices as possible (not every device has thunderbolt).

RME manages around 68 channels with USB2. So, why should they use Thunderbolt, which would only drive up the costs unnecessarily and raise unnecessary requirements to have thunderbolt in their computer.

Other manufacturers use thunderbolt because they didn't get it, managed to write capable drivers for USB or because they live in the Apple cloud of devices / connections.

I've watched the video. They said that at 24bit/192 KHz USB 2.0 tops out at 53 channels. So in theory that's good enough for UCX II's advertised 40 channels. But then UFX II which is up to 60 channels is still USB 2.0 as well. Then they said their driver makes it work, but there are devices using RME interfaces in class compliant mode, because drivers are available only for Windows and Mac.

So thanks for the link, but I remain unconvinced by their reasoning. Having at least USB 3.0 wouldn't add much if at all to the price that is already premium.

58 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-10-09 10:38:09)

  • ramses
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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

Look back, USB2 and FW400 were fully sufficient for the old UFX with 30 input and output channels.

Even for the MADIface USB, USB2 was sufficient, and it had even 68 (!!) channels in and out.
https://archiv.rme-audio.de/products/madiface_pro.php

From this, you can easily conclude, that for the UFX II, which is a 30 channel interface, USB2 is fully sufficient.

You should be glad…

EDIT: and the new MADIface USB driver even supports buffer sizes down to 32 samples, with the older USB driver of UFX / UCX 48 samples was the minimum buffer size. An improvement for cases where you need it.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

59 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-10-09 10:38:04)

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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

Finally, compare the RTL (round trip latency) of different RME solutions.
You will note that you get the same good performance no matter whether you use thunderbolt, USB3, USB2, FW400 or PCIe.

See my blog article about UFX+. It contains an overview about RTL of different RME solutions:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Entry/68-RME-UFX/

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachment/2343-ufx-ufx-raydat-latencies-v2-jpg/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

60 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-10-09 10:38:16)

  • ramses
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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

And this is an application performance test with a large Cubase project with plenty of tracks and VSTs in it.

No issues, no matter whether you use
— a RayDAT (PCIe based) or UFX+ (USB3 based) or
— single or double speed (96 kHz).

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … cks-de-en/

This with a 8y old PC with server mainboard and Xeon CPU:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … mponenten/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

61 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-10-09 10:37:49)

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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

Another aspect comes to my mind.
USB2 supports up to 5 m long cables, which is a real advantage in terms of placing the components around your desk.
With USB3 you (still) have 3 m … but which is just about enough for my setup.
With Thunderbolt, the cables are much more expensive and the maximum cable length is 2 m.
This would be too short in my setup with the devices left and the PC right from my desk.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

62 Reply by MC

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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

HardRock wrote:

I've watched the video. They said that at 24bit/192 KHz USB 2.0 tops out at 53 channels. So in theory that's good enough for UCX II's advertised 40 channels.

Watch it again - 192 kHz! And 52 STEREO channels!

At 192 kHz the UCX II has 14+14=28 channels only, not 40.

HardRock wrote:

But then UFX II which is up to 60 channels is still USB 2.0 as well.

18+18=36 channels at 192 kHz.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2022-10-06
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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

MC wrote:
HardRock wrote:

I've watched the video. They said that at 24bit/192 KHz USB 2.0 tops out at 53 channels. So in theory that's good enough for UCX II's advertised 40 channels.

Watch it again - 192 kHz! And 52 STEREO channels!

At 192 kHz the UCX II has 14+14=28 channels only, not 40.

HardRock wrote:

But then UFX II which is up to 60 channels is still USB 2.0 as well.

18+18=36 channels at 192 kHz.

There's another curious question. USB 2.0 is one way only, which means at best it's half-duplex. Now for asynchronous devices like printers and such that may not matter. But for an audio interface where real time matters?

For instance if I plug my guitar in direct, use software modeler to play though studio monitors - both my input and output signals will only be sent half of the time, because of USB 2.0's one way restriction, right? Surely that is a bad thing, whereas USB 3.0 is capable of full duplex and doesn't have this problem?

  • Registered: 2021-02-28
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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

This is a nice little unit that you could take on the road, and still have full functionality (including 6 physical outputs for surround sound).

www.summeroflovemusic.com
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2039241

65 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-11-01 21:07:02)

  • ramses
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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

HardRock wrote:

There's another curious question. USB 2.0 is one way only, which means at best it's half-duplex. Now for asynchronous devices like printers and such that may not matter. But for an audio interface where real time matters?

For instance if I plug my guitar in direct, use software modeler to play though studio monitors - both my input and output signals will only be sent half of the time, because of USB 2.0's one way restriction, right? Surely that is a bad thing, whereas USB 3.0 is capable of full duplex and doesn't have this problem?

There is no problem, data arrives still fast enough.
With USB 2.0 RME supports up to 68ch IN and OUT (MADIface USB).

Additionally, you have several benefits:
- cable length up to 5 m allow flexible placement of components
- even older computer have USB2 ports
- cables are cheaper
- as far as I remember with USB2 there were no chipset issues like with USB3, see UFX+ manual ch 40.3, compatibility infos

Here the RTL of different RME solutions I own(ed), as you can see, TB/USB/FW is on par with only little differences:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … ies-v2-jpg

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

66 Reply by waterden3 (edited by waterden3 2024-01-28 16:51:35)

  • Registered: 2024-01-27
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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

This is extremely informative. Thank you. I have posted the following question elsewhere but I think from your comments here you will almost certainly be able to give me an informed answer.

I have the original UCX mk I. I use it principally as an interface and standalone mixer. TotalMix FX is fantastic!

I am moving towards adding a headphone system and would like to have an opinion on whether there is sufficient difference between the UCX headphone sound quality and that of the ADI-2 DAC FS to make it worth adding the latter. If there is I will consider doing so, but for use purely as a headphone amp, albeit necessarily utilising the onboard DAC as there are no analog inputs. (I can see possible future uses for the DAC alone but my speaker system is fed for a Linn DSM Selekt with Katalyst DAC throigh a Primare i35 integrated amp, so is certainly pretty good). The sound source would be via a coaxial spdif link from the Linn (which has no headphones output). I will retain the UCX for its existing usage. It has been outstanding although I have only rarely used the headphone output and then only in a monitoring rather than "hifi" context.

Might adding the ADI-2 DAC FS be worth doing in your opinion?

An alternative would be to buy a dedicated headphone amp but if the RME UCX is good enough this might be pointless.

67 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-01-28 17:42:25)

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Re: The new RME UCX II - wow !

Hi waterden3.

I never did a cross-check, but I think the headphone outputs of the ADI-2 series of devices are better in terms of offering you more power and features. To mention only a few: Loudness, Crossfeed, auto reflevel, PEQ, Bittest to ensure lossless audio transfer end to end, different D/A filter, remote control via USB using the new App, factory PEQ settings, ...

Some more information here in my blog:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/

Integration into your setup, see here:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

Also, RME has put together some interesting information about linearizing headphones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nq9ZGAYTwU

This regarding the ADI-2/4 Pro SE in terms of RIAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEpRZcDsLuI

What about the following setup?! I have something special for you, giving you even more options.

I have a similar setup, see: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … -v002-jpg/
One ADI-2 Pro FS R BE for monitoring in the recording corner.
The UFX III has a 15m long cable towards the 2nd ADI-2 Pro FS R BE which does the AD/DA conversion there.
Using the Oehlbach Optosel Mk II I can D/A convert from PC, TV, BluRay player.
So the High-End HiFi (combination of Accuphase and B&W speaker) can serve different purposes.
Because all is based on optical TOSLINK cables you have a perfect galvanic isolation without any hum.

PC
|
USB2
|
|                                                Oehlbach Optosel MkII             + up to two headphone outputs or balanced phones
|                                                    TOSLINK Switcher                /
UCX II------------------TOSLINK-------SOURCE1:-------+------ADI-2 Pro FS R BE-----ANALOG------>Primare i35----Speaker
Linn DSM Select------TOSLINK-------SOURCE2:-------+                                   \<---ANALOG------/
TV-----------------------TOSLINK-------SOURCE3:-------+
BluRay Player---------TOSLINK-------SOURCE4:-------+

alternatively

PC
|
USB2
|                                                                                             +-----turntable
|                                                Oehlbach Optosel MkII        /     + up to two headphone outputs or balanced phones
|                                                    TOSLINK Switcher           /     /
UCX II------------------TOSLINK-------SOURCE1:-------+------ADI-2/4 Pro SE----ANALOG------>Primare i35----Speaker
Linn DSM Select------TOSLINK-------SOURCE2:-------+                             \<---ANALOG------/
TV-----------------------TOSLINK-------SOURCE3:-------+
BluRay Player---------TOSLINK-------SOURCE4:-------+

Lots of use cases

  • You can also use the PC as music player or when working with the PC you can use your HiFi as Main Out B.

  • When using MusicBee, there is a plugin MusicBee Remote, then you can control playback via android smartphone or tablet.

  • Using the TOSLINK switcher, which has a nice design and even a remote you can use the ADI as central D/A converter for up to 4 sources, in your case PC, Streamer, TV and maybe even for a bluray player if you have.

When getting not only a ADI-2 DAC but either ADI-2 Pro FS R BE or ADI-2/4 Pro then you get additional advantages.

  • You can record something from the HiFi intrated amp, as these devices have also analog inputs.

  • You can also connect up to two headphones, good for comparing headphones when purchasing.

  • Or alternatively you can also use headphones which are to be connected balanced.

  • If you get the ADI-2/4 pro SE you have the additional advantage of having even 5 reference levels, by this you get even a wider range of optimum SNR if you turn down volume / when using auto reflevel.

  • Also the advantage to be able to connect a turntable with rich possibilities of RIAA decoding.

  • Plus the new pentaconn plug for connecting balanced phones.

  • Additionally new ESS AD/DA converter (more D/A filter, little lower latency, some technical specs little more polished)

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14