1 (edited by Sparkl 2021-06-11 23:18:09)

Topic: Question about WDM Devices

Hello guys!

I just became a proud new owner of an UFX+ couple weeks ago and it is my first RME product to date. Words can't describe it well enough, but this has been the best decision of my life! Such a good product, very trouble free, best Windows drivers hands down and the stability of the device with drivers included is basically unparalleled to my knowledge.

All is great except for one minor thing:

WDM devices.

I have my monitors plugged in to the XLR outputs (so output 1 and 2). Under "MADIface Series Settings" I have configured the "Analog (1+2)" under "WDM Devices" tab as the active WDM device (it is the only channel I activated, didn't activate all of them obviously).

Windows then correctly shows my UFX+ as a recognized device and playback runs smoothly. Problem is when I try to enable the same under the "Speaker" tab. Doing so automatically crashes my Windows Sound Panel and I immediately lose both the device and the volume of it (the windows "sound icon" in the toolbar will appear with a red cross over it, indicating there is no device plugged in).

This will also crash my Sonarworks Reference 4 if it happens to be open, but this problem occurs even if I'm only running my UFX+ as the only existing device (I have disabled all other sound devices in the device manager - built in soundcard on my motherboard, Nvidia sound and my Dell monitor, which also gets recognized as a sound device).

I know this is not a necessary step but I am still wondering why it doesn't work properly and finally show my device as "Speakers".

What am I missing (or doing wrong) here?

Thank you for your answer in advance.

P.S.: Forgot to mention, I'm using Windows 10 Pro with all the newest updates.

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Bumping this, would be glad to hear some responses.

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Bumping this, would be glad to hear some responses.

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Hello!

Sorry for not answering earlier, but have you enabled the "Speaker" Property for Analog(1+2), in the "Speaker" Tab, in the "Configure..." WDM Devices section?

You can have a look at Chapter 7.2 of the manual:  https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ufxplus_e.pdf

Sparkl wrote:

I just became a proud new owner of an UFX+ couple weeks ago and it is my first RME product to date. Words can't describe it well enough, but this has been the best decision of my life! Such a good product, very trouble free, best Windows drivers hands down and the stability of the device with drivers included is basically unparalleled to my knowledge.

Welcome to the club!! smile

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

5 (edited by Sparkl 2021-06-16 11:46:33)

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Thank you for your response!

I will attach here the pictures of how I have it set up:

https://ibb.co/KbStwQG

So, I pretty much explained everything in the picture, but to summarize:

Whenever I enable the analog output under speaker tab my windows sound panel will crash, I cannot access any of the settings under the windows sound settings, nor do I get any audio output.

As it can be seen on the picture below, I have disabled every sound device in my computer system except for RME:

https://ibb.co/swqx5gq

My windows is currently updated to the build 19042:

https://ibb.co/v1StrKc

Is there anything I'm missing with the setup?

Re: Question about WDM Devices

You 're welcome, and thanks for the pictures!

What happens if you repeat the procedure of configuring WDM Devices this way?
- Reset WDM Devices to 0, i.e uncheck the Analog(1+2) in the "Configure..." section
- Click on "Ok" so the Driver re-initializes(Analog(1+2) will disappear from the Windows Sound Settings)
- Re - configure a WDM Device for Analog(1+2)
- Check the "Speaker" Property for Analog(1+2) in the "Speaker" Tab
- Now, click on "Ok" in the FireFace Settings
- Select RME Analog(1+2) in the Windows Sound Settings
and check if everything works as expected!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Question about WDM Devices

I have tried doing what you recommended but still of no success unfortunately. I get the exact same issue as shown in the pictures.

And whenever this happens, I cannot even access the Windows Sound Settings because it immediately crashes and starts "detecting issues", as shown in the previously posted picture.

Another thing to mention is that I pretty much have a fresh install of windows, with minimal clutter (all the unnecessary drivers/apps are disabled or don't run at startup, so I doubt there could be any specific interference app-wise. I must assume there is some miscommunication between the WDM and Windows Sound Settings in this case.

I would be very grateful for any other suggestion. smile

8 (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2021-06-17 02:59:05)

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Hmm, what about Sample Rate?

Have you set the same Sample Rate in Windows as in the FireFace Settings?
Any other equipment connected via digital or optical inputs?

Also, can you, please, post the Driver and Firmware version numbers?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

9 (edited by Sparkl 2021-06-17 22:48:48)

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Yes, sample rate is set at 48khz in both the rme control and sound panel.

The drivers are up to date:

https://ibb.co/gthGmms

Firmware should also be the latest:

https://ibb.co/v126ZzR

No other gear is currently connected via digital or optical, the only stuff I have routed on the UFX is the outboard gear (preamps, compressors and saturators mostly), but that's the "good old" analog stuff. smile

The same problem occurred also with an empty device, with only monitors and an RME ARC USB plugged in.

10 (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2021-06-18 03:47:24)

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Thanks!

Yep, Driver and Firmware are up to date!

Where is the ARC Usb connected to? Can you try with it, disconnected?

Sparkl wrote:

No other gear is currently connected via digital or optical, the only stuff I have routed on the UFX is the outboard gear (preamps, compressors and saturators mostly), but that's the "good old" analog stuff. smile

Niiice!! smile



@RME Support or MC
Hello!
If you check the image for the Firmware : https://ibb.co/v126ZzR from @Sparkl, the New Usb revision reported in the Flash Update Tool is "55".
The Fallback revision is "52" and the New Usb revision reported in the Readme file (and the site info) is "53".
I can 't check myself, because I don't own a UFX+. Is this a known error?

EDIT: After re-checking the image of the "About" Tab : https://ibb.co/gthGmms , I 've, also, noticed that the Hardware Revision shows "52" for @Sparkl's UFX+. A bug, maybe? or incompleted Flash Update?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Gosh, still no luck sad

Tried removing the ARC USB, still the same issue. ARC USB is connected to the "Remote" input on the UFX+ backplate.

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Hmm, I 'm running out of ideas..

Did you perform the Flash Update, yourself or did you receive it with the latest Firmware?
If you performed it yourself, did you power the unit off after performing it?

Maybe the Flash Update is not completed, because the UFX+ needs to be powered off after the Firmware update.
Or maybe there is a bug. But I think none is reported?

Please, wait for RME Support answer or you can contact them directly here:  https://www.rme-audio.de/support.html
                                                                                                     at the third Tab "Request Support"

I 've, also, edited my previous post for some more info!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Yeah no problem, thank you very much for investing all this time into it, I appreciate!

The flash update should have been completed, the software itself also instructed to power down the interface, which I did. The picture has been taken after I powered down the device.

Thanks for the advice to write to support directly, will do that!

Re: Question about WDM Devices

What happens if you enable more than one WDM device or leave other audio devices active?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Sparkl wrote:

Yeah no problem, thank you very much for investing all this time into it, I appreciate!

The flash update should have been completed, the software itself also instructed to power down the interface, which I did. The picture has been taken after I powered down the device.

Thanks for the advice to write to support directly, will do that!

You 're welcome!!

RME Support is top notch!!

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

16

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Does it work when you enable the next WDM device (3+4) as well? It does here. Speaker with only 1/2 seems not to work, I'll check if this is a bug.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Ok, for the purpose of testing, I have enabled the "Analog (1+2)" and "Analog (3+4)" under the "WDM Devices" tab and then enabled both under the "Speaker" tab.

This time the sound panel does not crash, however I still don't get the correct status of my device labeled as "Speaker" under windows panel, as shown in the following screenshot:

https://ibb.co/44PykYm

18 (edited by Sparkl 2021-06-19 20:04:26)

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Ok tiny update:

I have tried closing Reaper (DAW) and under same settings, the volume mixer now correctly shows my device as "Speakers (RME UFX+ USB 3.0)". Apparently Reaper was forcing ASIO mode obviously at the time when I took the screenshots.

But now there is another issue.

When enabling both Analog 1+2 and 3+4 as speakers, now I get no sound through my main monitors but instead the signal is feeding my outboard compressor linked through actual output 3+4 on my interface.

I have tried disabling the Analog 3+4 under Speakers tab and only leaving Analog 1+2 as enabled and now it apparently works (so that I actually get a signal through monitors and my compressor not being fed by the signal on outputs 3 and 4 - and still maintaining the Speaker status in the Windows Sound Panel).

So now I have Analog 1+2 and 3+4 enabled under WDM Devices tab and Analog 1+2 under Speaker. Is this now how it's supposed to be set up correctly?

Which leaves me quite a bit confused as in - why did I have to enable the Analog 3+4 under WDM Devices for the Analog 1+2 to be recognized correctly as a speaker? How does it work?

Edit: I can now also see Analog 3+4 as a playback device - is there a way to actually hide this or is this how it's supposed to be set up?

19

Re: Question about WDM Devices

I did not mean to enable both as speaker (that makes zero sense), but to enable more than one WDM device so one of them is shown as Speaker when one of them has been assigned such a property.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

20 (edited by Sparkl 2021-06-20 00:35:23)

Re: Question about WDM Devices

MC wrote:

I did not mean to enable both as speaker (that makes zero sense), but to enable more than one WDM device so one of them is shown as Speaker when one of them has been assigned such a property.

Yes indeed, I figured that out when I was testing different combinations myself. My question, though, is - is there a way to hide the Analog 3+4 section in my Windows Sound Panel or is this just a thing that has to be enabled in order to work properly - is this actually yet another funny and sad Windows glitch or is this a matter of the device driver?

I know it's not that much relevant to the big picture, but my personal OCD kind of demands me to keep things tidy and I just hate to see multiple outputs, in Windows sound panel in this case, that I don't actually need. Is there a way to fix this?

21

Re: Question about WDM Devices

I wrote 'I'll check if this is a bug'.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

22 (edited by Sparkl 2021-06-20 16:48:33)

Re: Question about WDM Devices

MC wrote:

I wrote 'I'll check if this is a bug'.

No need to be rude about it, Mr. MC. But if it fits your bill...

Still, I believe you misread my question as your response clearly does not address my inquiry, which is, quote:

My question, though, is - is there a way to hide the Analog 3+4 section in my Windows Sound Panel or is this just a thing that has to be enabled in order to work properly

This is something that I ask you prior to you checking for potential bugs and passing the note to the development team in order to fix the issue with the upcoming driver patch or whatever the cause may be.

I did not mean to enable both as speaker (that makes zero sense)

Enabling Analog (3+4) in WDM Devices in order for Analog (1+2) to be enabled as Speaker makes even less then zero sense, but here we are... wink

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Couple days have passed now and I'm anxious of hearing some input from the dev team about this situation.

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Couple days have passed now and I'm anxious of hearing some input from the dev team about this situation.

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Couple days have passed now and I'm anxious of hearing some input from the dev team about this situation.

26 (edited by Sparkl 2021-06-29 14:38:00)

Re: Question about WDM Devices

So, the situation is as follows.

11 days have passed since Mr. MC has stated that he will check whether this thing is a bug or not. To this day, I still haven't gotten a single response.

I'm starting to get a little disappointed here guys. I find it hard to believe that after spending 2300eur for an audio interface, I'm not worthy of at least a simple response as in how to at least hide the Analog (3+4) output from the Windows sound panel, or even better, a response whether the problem lies in the device driver or Windows itself.

Prior to buying my first RME product, I have read about your support being quick and responsive, and most of all helpful. Guess it's actually the forum residents and consumers who do all the heavy lifting for you though.

As a reminder, I will make a bump post here every couple days, if not for else, then for other users or newcomers to see just how (un)responsive RME tech support is.

Not to mention I have sent a support ticket and haven't received a single email about receiving my ticket, let alone updating me on the status of the ticket.

For the price I paid for this gear, I would expect everything to work as intended, and in case of bugs like this, to be addressed as quickly as possible, but this is not the case here. Since I have also worked in a tech support department for one of the big companies out there, I would know that 11 days is more than enough for the support team to address this simple issue - unless the directive is to ignore it of course - I had to do it many times as well, I'm not unfamiliar with such practice.

I will have to reconsider the purchase of my next Audio Interface, simply drawing from the experience I have had on this forum so far. This is absolutely not how a company should vision their tech support channel to work. Not in this price range.

I believe my request for tech support is reasonable enough and does not impose a stupid question for the tech to be ignorant of. More so, this is not an issue that is described in the RME user manual on any page of the book.

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Since you already had responses from me and MC here, I didn't see the need for a separate email reply - there wasnt much else I could tell you there. Please understand that trying to reproduce a specific bug might take a while, MC has got lots of other things to do. And once it's reproducible, we'd have to wait for driver developers to find a possible fix. Also, please mind that regular tech support and potential bug tracing aren't quite the same thing, this isn't comparable.

You said you had 3/4 deactivated, so not sure why you ask how to hide it... No one said it has to be enabled - the question was simply what happens if you do? Does the same issue still occur in that case?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

28 (edited by Sparkl 2021-06-29 22:17:41)

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Well, I will literally have to start quoting my posts from earlier in this thread.

The quote below explains the issue thoroughly:

I have my monitors plugged in to the XLR outputs (so output 1 and 2). Under "MADIface Series Settings" I have configured the "Analog (1+2)" under "WDM Devices" tab as the active WDM device (it is the only channel I activated, didn't activate all of them obviously).

Windows then correctly shows my UFX+ as a recognized device and playback runs smoothly. Problem is when I try to enable the same under the "Speaker" tab. Doing so automatically crashes my Windows Sound Panel and I immediately lose both the device and the volume of it (the windows "sound icon" in the toolbar will appear with a red cross over it, indicating there is no device plugged in).

This will also crash my Sonarworks Reference 4 if it happens to be open, but this problem occurs even if I'm only running my UFX+ as the only existing device (I have disabled all other sound devices in the device manager - built in soundcard on my motherboard, Nvidia sound and my Dell monitor, which also gets recognized as a sound device).

This quote explains how I had to set it up in order for Analog (1+2) to work correctly as a "speaker" and get recognized as such in Windows sound panel:

So now I have Analog 1+2 and 3+4 enabled under WDM Devices tab and Analog 1+2 under Speaker. Is this now how it's supposed to be set up correctly?

I have also asked the following question (that I had to quote once already):

My question, though, is - is there a way to hide the Analog 3+4 section in my Windows Sound Panel or is this just a thing that has to be enabled in order to work properly

To which I got the following rude response:

I wrote 'I'll check if this is a bug'.

I don't know how you envision the tech support environment, but as a consumer I can assure you, this is not what I'm looking for at all (and I'm very much not alone in it).

A simple answer to the question above as in "yes" or "no" would already suffice. I'm not sure how such answer would consume more time than writing a response as shown in the quote above.

So I repeat myself again:

In order for Analog (1+2) to be recognized as Speaker I was forced to enable Analog (3+4) under WDM devices, and while this doesn't make any sense to me, it is the only way for it to work. I don't want Analog (3+4) be visible under my devices list in the Windows sound panel though (a direct result of enabling it in WDM devices tab).

You said you had 3/4 deactivated, so not sure why you ask how to hide it... No one said it has to be enabled - the question was simply what happens if you do? Does the same issue still occur in that case?

Here's how it is:

WDM Devices                     Speaker                    Result

Analog (1+2)                    Analog (1+2)           NO GO - CRASH

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analog (1+2)                    Analog (1+2)           WORKS CORRECTLY
Analog (3+4)           

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sorry, but I literally don't know how to put this more clearly than this.

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Hello,


Sparkl wrote:

I have also asked the following question (that I had to quote once already):

My question, though, is - is there a way to hide the Analog 3+4 section in my Windows Sound Panel or is this just a thing that has to be enabled in order to work properly

To which I got the following rude response:

I wrote 'I'll check if this is a bug'.

There's nothing rude about it, I'd say, and in fact it was a reply to this question:

I know it's not that much relevant to the big picture, but my personal OCD kind of demands me to keep things tidy and I just hate to see multiple outputs, in Windows sound panel in this case, that I don't actually need. Is there a way to fix this?

....

I don't know how you envision the tech support environment, but as a consumer I can assure you, this is not what I'm looking for at all (and I'm very much not alone in it).

A simple answer to the question above as in "yes" or "no" would already suffice. I'm not sure how such answer would consume more time than writing a response as shown in the quote above.

Again, this isn't regular everyday tech support, tracking down possible bugs is another matter. And if there is no simple yes or no right now, please have a bit of patience until we find out what the issue might be.



Here's how it is:

WDM Devices                     Speaker                    Result
Analog (1+2)                    Analog (1+2)           NO GO - CRASH
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analog (1+2)                    Analog (1+2)           WORKS CORRECTLY
Analog (3+4)           

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am sorry, but I literally don't know how to put this more clearly than this.


Ok - but that means you have a working solution, so there is no immediate urgency. A setup with 3/4 enabled won't keep you from working.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

30 (edited by Sparkl 2021-06-30 13:38:36)

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Yes, you are correct, it won't keep me from working - I'm not denying that.

I was just looking for an honest answer to the question whether I can hide the Analog (3+4) from the Windows Sound panel (as in, maybe somehow disable it as a device if its shown under the device manager, or something similar), because I like to keep my things tidy.

There's nothing rude about it

Well, opinions can vary. As I have stated before, I have worked as a sales commercialist in a big company (for many years), where I constantly had to answer to customer questions and their emails as well, and I know for a fact I would never have written a response like this, because it consists of words, which are highly likely to be found insulting or rude by the reader.

I know this is nitpicking, but instead of writing "I wrote "I'll check..."", you could simply switch words and say, "We will have to wait until I check if it's a bug or not".

You know, positive attitude when dealing with costumers is pretty much necessary, I know this from my personal experience.

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Mr Sparkl, is it really such a big deal? I mean, you can still do the audio work , it's hardly getting in the way. There's a lot to understand about the totalmix operation v/v. windows systems, and your beef is just one, most folks sort it out eventually or just get on with it

32 (edited by CrispyChips 2021-07-02 14:32:06)

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Quote: “you have a working solution, so there is no immediate urgency. A setup with 3/4 enabled won't keep you from working.”

Quote: “yes, you are correct, it won't keep me from working - I'm not denying that.”

Quote: “is it really such a big deal? I mean, you can still do the audio work , it's hardly getting in the way. There's a lot to understand about the totalmix operation v/v. windows systems, and your beef is just one, most folks sort it out eventually or just get on with it”


Excellent points, extremely well made!

TotalMixFX is heavily feature laden, yet incredibly simple to operate.

In terms of concept, design and implementation, a veritable work of genius!

The genius Einstein said: "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Thus, we appreciate that mastery of RME’s hardware and TotalMixFX, will involve a learning curve.

However, Windows and indeed Apples operating systems aren’t quite in the same  league where genius is concerned and where the two interact; with such huge differences in hardware, operating system, drivers and programs used, all sorts of anomalies arise, uniquely singular to an individual, as appears to be the case here. 

With hardware working perfectly, fully able to be used, getting on and using it, learning to properly understand and operate the multitude of available functions; whilst RME attempt to replicate this atypical, unprecedented, anomalously divergent, solitary, individual occurrence, if that is possible, would appear to be the best, most positively helpful suggestion conceivable.


Quote: “my personal OCD kind of demands me to keep things tidy.”

Quote: “I have also worked in a tech support department for one of the big companies out there, I would know that 11 days is more than enough for the support team to address this simple issue - unless the directive is to ignore it of course - I had to do it many times as well, I'm not unfamiliar with such practice.”


Thank you for sharing something of your personal background.

This explains the disturbing, obsessive, compulsive behaviour apparent throughout the thread. Thankfully, mental disorders such as OCD are far better understood these days, and help is available.

Although there are three main factors involved, one of the world’s top experts in this field believes that there are actually six, completely different but related psychological disorders, that scientific research will ultimately find to be precipitated by a singular, individual, underlying cause.

He says: “it will take time to pin the underlying cause down.”


Rather like the Windows issue you have.


Furthermore, it appears that based upon and drawing from your own personal experience within companies you suggest lack a properly implemented ethos. A lack of ethos that you at times enacted, implemented and enforced.

You seem to have psychologically displaced that level of deliberately negative, poor customer service, projecting those undesirable characteristics onto the Team at RME. A team applauded by professionals throughout the music recording industry, for providing exemplary, meritorious service.

It’s easy to understand, given your difficult background.

Again, thank you for sharing your problem openly.


Quote: “I have worked as a sales commercialist in a big company (for many years), where I constantly had to answer to customer questions and their emails as well, and I know for a fact I would never have written a response like this, because it consists of words, which are highly likely to be found insulting or rude by the reader.”


Nothing whatever, Mattias or Daniel have written, has been rude.

With respect, once again you have adopted you own uncommonly singular, personal experience and used it as a measuring stick to beat anyone that fails to comply with your own, personal, internalised standards, imposed by institution.

Thus, you wrongly infer the delusionary, imagined, rudeness and insult which you have repeatedly and falsely accused those who are attempting to assist you of. In reality, they are extremely good and helpful individuals, who only want to help. If they can!


Here we are, from all over the world.

Different people, with different experience and different backgrounds.

Speaking different languages, from different cultures, and different countries throughout the globe.

It’s easy to misunderstand each other, easy to misinterpret what we think someone has written. Easy to misunderstand what we believe their intent to be.

Companies are having to operate within the legal requirements and demands imposed by a pandemic. So, cut a little slack, give a little time, have a little patience and I genuinely and sincerely hope it might be possible for the experts to come through with a solution for you. I’m sure like me, everyone here only wishes you well!

It appears to be a Windows related issue.

Presumably, Microsoft didn’t help?

Re: Question about WDM Devices

I totally agree with the above. This has got a bit excessive for something that isn’t stopping you work and sounds more like windows problem to me. There’s a lot of people willing to help on here who are not part of RME but would be reluctant to help someone who responds like this. Chill out.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

Re: Question about WDM Devices

Discussion of off-topic personal matters removed, thread closed.

If the issue becomes reproducible and we find a possible fix on our side, I'll let you know (or MC will).

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

35

Re: Question about WDM Devices

I already wrote that I could reproduce it, and that the workaround worked for me (post 16). The rest needs time (holiday season).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME