Topic: USB Audio device (without output options) into Total Mix FX

I have an Alesis Strike Drum Pad and it is connected via USB to my PC as is my BF RS Pro. There is no place in the Alesis to point the audio for the Alesis to an RME output (no software).  Is there any way I can route the audio from the Alesis into total mix FX so it can show up in total mix FX?

The issue I am having is that in Ableton I can only have either "RME ASIO" OR "MME/DirectX" as my device. The only thing that kind of works is using something like ASIO4All and select all the RME inputs and the Alesis Strike USB input and send directly into Ableton. IS that my only option?

Also, the midi comes into Ableton fine via USB

P.S. I would have searched, but when I use the search in the menu bar a search for "USB" it returned no results.

2 (edited by ramses 2021-06-19 06:46:11)

Re: USB Audio device (without output options) into Total Mix FX

The typical problem as e.g. with USB microphones.

The DAW/application can only load one driver and it is of course best practice to use the ASIO driver of the recording interface here for direct access to the HW, best audio quality and stability and lowest latencies.

ASIO4ALL is not a true ASIO driver with direct access to the audio hardware and bypassing the Windows kernel mixer. ASIO4ALL simply puts itself between the application and the Windows driver and speaks ASIO to the application.
It's practically an additional layer between the actual Windows driver and the application.

But the communication with the audio device is still done via the Windows driver and via the Windows kernel mixer, which can affect audio quality and also leads to higher latencies.

This is not a good / stable solution, for which you will not get manufacturer support if you run into problems.
You can use it if it works, but on the long you won't have a satisfactory and supported solution with it.

Better would be to optimize your environment and get devices that fit into "the overall picture" as it "should be", without using non-standard solutions with ASIO4ALL. Better follow a supported / best practise approach.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: USB Audio device (without output options) into Total Mix FX

Thank you, I’ll likely end up using analog outs to an input on by BF Pro FS.

4 (edited by 4ccmusic 2021-07-10 21:46:02)

Re: USB Audio device (without output options) into Total Mix FX

This is a nice thread.

I am in the same boat. I need edrumming to be insanely low latecy.  I am a NYC jazz drummer who practices in his apartment. I have a ufx+ on a 390 designer's motherboard thru tbolt and its all fine but actually i think even with 32 driver, its too long the latency.

When i hear the internal sounds on my dtx900 they arrive before triggering samples thru say a program like steven slate drums 5 or accent. My asio is set to 32 ms. I dont have pops or clicks and i also have a amd system 5800 system with a 560 vision dp mobo.

Honestly i can feel and hear latency when i practice and the idea is to get away from the very digital sounding drums in yamaha dtx or a Roland modules.

Its almost a honestly plea to ask if rme could make the driver go lower just for practice propose. In, fact i would pay for it if it works or simply go to any sound card that can give me lower latency. im sure there are many edrummers out there that need to keep there chops up and not have to record.

Recently i saw rtl sheets on gearspace sayin the babyface goes to 16 ms buffer and also the zen from antelope goes down to 8ms!!! I have not tried these.  I would build any system that would allow me to practice and feel the lowest latency imaginable, its that important to me.

again this is so i can practice hearing some real good sounding drums. There are alot of killing drum sample libs out already and i usual go back to the internal dtx sounds cause there faster then triggering it thru the cpu

20 years doing this and tbh i haven't seen any improvement in this area.  maybe i am wrong, all good though !

please can u make a beta driver to get the ufx+ down lower???? Almost begging big_smile

thanks

I was wondering if there would be any chance to get the buffer even low

5 (edited by ramses 2021-07-10 22:33:49)

Re: USB Audio device (without output options) into Total Mix FX

4ccmusic wrote:

[...]
Recently i saw rtl sheets on gearspace sayin the babyface goes to 16 ms buffer and also the zen from antelope goes down to 8ms!!! I have not tried these.  I would build any system that would allow me to practice and feel the lowest latency imaginable, its that important to me.
[...]

So if you think that an Antelope with 8ms would help you .. then I am really wondering why you have any problems with your UFX+.
Look at the ASIO input + output latency = RTL (Round Trip Latency).

With TB the values should be even a little bit lower..
But now see here whats possible through USB3 (Windows 10 PC) in terms of RTL at single, double, quad speed:
UFX+ at   44,1 kHz: 1,111+2,063 = 3,174ms (*)
UFX+ at   48    kHz: 1,021+1,896 = 2,917ms
UFX+ at   96    kHz: 0,844+1,448 = 2,292ms
UFX+ at 192    kHz: 0,724+1,245 = 1,969ms

(*) Last recent MADIface driver 0.9735 seems to have little higher (maybe safety-) buffers compared to driver version 0.9606 from 2017 which I used for creating the table below.

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/2343-UFX-UFX-RayDAT-Latencies-v2-jpg/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: USB Audio device (without output options) into Total Mix FX

The Yamaha drum modules have higher midi latency than the Roland modules but even still the latency of the RME interfaces is really low especially if you are running at 32 samples. I’m using a Roland td30 sending midi over usb to an i9 pc running SD3 and a Babyface pro fs with buffers set to 64 samples. This gives me just under 3ms output latency which is not detectable while playing. What DAW are you using  SSD5.5 with? Have you got any effects in line or on the master bus as these would add latency.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

7 (edited by 4ccmusic 2021-07-11 21:13:03)

Re: USB Audio device (without output options) into Total Mix FX

@Ramses I might of confused myself with samples and millisecond .the babyface is suppose to have a sample of 16 lowest and the Zen is supposed to be 8 samples.

so using either of these cards compared to the ufx+ via tb would get the edrumming playing lower then ufx+ or did i miss something?

and do we need to say rtl? Cause the midi is just telling the drum software to play the samples goign out, there is no need for the mic input to go in then out


i use the old pin configuration for my Yamaha dtx700 i can use usb cable for midi if its faster, im not sure which one is faster. the usb or pin stlye.

I tend to use ssd5 in Blue Cats Patch work cause its very fast to load up or i can also use pro tools. I wanna play, not set stuff up when im practicing.

Please look at the chart on these pages

https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.ph … count=4899
https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.ph … count=4894

ty

8

Re: USB Audio device (without output options) into Total Mix FX

> so using either of these cards compared to the ufx+ via tb would get the edrumming playing lower then ufx+ or did i miss something?

Definitely. Read the manual of the UFX+, chapter Latency and Monitoring, to start undersatanding what this stuff is all about. What is it good for to have 8 or 16 sample big buffers when the total buffer size needs to be higher to be usable? Didn't you notice the small gain in latency in those screenshots between 64 samples and 8 samples? Do the math, it's easy!

And all this is Apple only. You use Windows. Check Ramses values and compare them - you are more than quick enough. It will be MIDI that adds noticable delay in your case.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME