Topic: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

I've been rocking an Multiface II (PCI) for so many years that I cannot even remember (let's go with 2008). The Multiface (while still rock solid) is starting to show it's age in terms of PC connectivity (the old PCI card interface)

I am considering a new interface (From a different vendor for very specific reasons) but I still want to be able to use this Multiface for some lesser used analog connections - so I want to get a clear understanding of what is needed to use the Multiface inputs WITH this new interface via ADAT.

1. Is it as simple as just stringing an optical cable from the RME (ADAT Out) to the new interface (ADAT IN), turning the RME on and the new interface will suddenly "see" these 8 new ADAT inputs?

2. Or do I need to continue to have a full RME setup on my main machine (including Drivers, PCI card, TotalMix FX etc) and perform some specific process to make the Multiface "available" to the new interface as an ADAT source?

3. Some other setup that I am really not getting?

Appreciate any info on this.

Cheers!

VP

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

ramses wrote:

Would be better if you would mention the other product to get the whole picture.

It will most likely be the Presonus (1824c)

Cheers!

VP

3 (edited by Vocalpoint 2021-10-21 19:17:01)

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

ramses wrote:

How many mic inputs, instr inputs, analog inputs and outputs, ADAT ports do you require at minimum ?
Maybe you can sell the Multiface II. What is the max budget that you have for a new device ?

I need at least 6 ADAT at a minimum but having all 8 would be better. And the 1824c meets all other requirements easily.

The reason for this post is that I really need to unify my main audio hardware and clean out a bunch of old crap like a very old Mackie 1604VLZ that has been here just as long as the RME.

The Mackie serves no purpose now - except to act as a patch bay (several analog devices connected are sent back to the RME via the 1604VLZ sub mix out connections) and to drive the external monitors. I really want that rack space back but at the same time really need to maintain that extra analog I/O and of course monitor connections.

Then I finally decided to read up (and fully understand) ADAT and now it sounds like the perfect solution - keep the Multiface as an "input" replacement for the outgoing crappy Mackie and pipe those 8 inputs into the new interface via ADAT.

Selling the Multiface is kinda pointless since it's essentially worthless and losing those ADAT channels would nullify this whole plan. What I really want to trash is the Mackie and move into a reasonable priced 2021 main interface that interfaces with current investments

My choice of Presonus stems from a sizable (current) investment in Presonus hardware plus Studio One is my single DAW of choice.

While I would always consider RME again - the prices have gotten to a point (at least here in Canada) where that does not make any sense - typical RME costs far outstrip my budget - which is really probably no higher than a grand.

This is a project facility (my primary customer deliverables are for voiceover) so there is no need to spend 3 or 4 grand on an interface - that would be way overkill.

Cheers!

VP

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

The Multiface has to get configuration on the computer. All analog inputs to the desired adat output and all adat outputs fully open, to do in Totalmix.
This routing keeps active as long the Multiface is under power.
You can disconnect it from the computer and use the box as adda converter with all 8 inputs and also with all 8 outputs as it is routed in Totalmix.

M1-Monterey, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

waedi wrote:

The Multiface has to get configuration on the computer. All analog inputs to the desired adat output and all adat outputs fully open, to do in Totalmix. This routing keeps active as long the Multiface is under power. You can disconnect it from the computer and use the box as adda converter with all 8 inputs and also with all 8 outputs as it is routed in Totalmix.

That makes sense - as I suspected. So this means I would need to leave the Multiface set up (as is) and running for the go-forward - until such time that PCI slots disappear but I should be good for a while.

Appreciate the info - very helpful!

Cheers

VP

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

ramses wrote:

Best would be to have a RME interface as main interface. Either you get it managed to keep Multiface II by using a PCI to PCIe adapter or - if budget allows - get another RME based solution, maybe in combination with ADA8200 if you really need more mic inputs or analog I/O.

Just want to be clear - my MULTIFACE II is working fine. As long as I can continue to buy motherboards with PCI slots - I am solid. There is no concern there. But the day will come - when it will not. Things do wear out - regardless of what it is or who makes it.

My primary focus is move out some very dated hardware, unify under a vendor that takes full advantage of my newest hardware investments - while at the same time ensuring I can continue to get some great value from this aging RME (Selling it is simply a pointless move) AND also having it as a super-verified backup system.

Trust me - if the current RME line was not so expensive - I would easily consider it - but it's not really cost effective for what I need here in 2021.

VP

7 (edited by Vocalpoint 2021-10-21 21:41:10)

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

ramses wrote:

There are only a few motherboards with PCI sockets, so that the choice is very limited. BTW, this is also no longer pure PCI anymore, somewhere on the motherboard this is converted to PCIe.

Sorry to dwell on this one - the card for my Multiface II is PCIe so I am covered as far as slots go.

ramses wrote:

I would continue to use it as the main interface, because you won't get anything better than RME with TotalMix FX, Steadyclock etc from any other manufacturer anyway, not to speak about driver quality and long term support. If you have budget restrictions, then you could also think about other solutions which are not that expensive.

You might consider a combination of Digiface USB and ADA8200: 357+174=€531, not much more compared to getting a Presonus Interface which will give you at the end more limitations compared to RME and not so long driver support.

I keep seeing people mention the ADA8200 but it looks long discontinued. If there is something similar that's current - I would certainly look at that.

ramses wrote:

IMHO RME is not really expensive, you get a real value. You also have to see what quality, technologies and features you get there. Not to mention the long-term driver support and a first-class designed and in 21 years matured user interface and additional software like DIGIcheck and TotalMix Remote, for which you do not even have to pay anything extra. That's why these devices have such a high resale price on the used market.

I can't disagree with you at all. RME is the ultimate value when it comes to interfaces and still being able to use it 13 years later is a testament to their commitment. But I want to reiterate - the Presonus idea - is just that - an idea right now - I have not ordered anything and I really do appreciate the RME feedback - which does not surprise me - considering the forum we are in.

On that note - the Babyface PRO FS might just fit this bill as well - and keep everything in the family....

This is a process and I will always consider all input and opinions.

Cheers

VP

8 (edited by ramses 2021-10-21 23:02:50)

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

[ removed the postings from me because I think there were some misunderstandings in terms of your setup and goals
  there were some needed information somehow missing ]

If the Multiface II is connected by PCIe card, whats now the problem, that you think about replacing it with another recording interface from Presonus? I do not know these old PCIe cards exactly. Is it a driver issue ?

Otherwise - if the Multiface is now still fully functional (if I understood you correctly) why don't you connect a mic preamp or ad/da converter through ADAT ? You have even WC if this should be needed (if the connected device has no digital input to get clock over that link). You could even connect an ADI-2 DAC FS or ADI-2 Pro FS R BE to it if you want (through either ADAT or coax SPDIF (ADI-2 Pro)).

> I really do appreciate the RME feedback - which does not surprise me - considering the forum we are in.
BTW, everybody who answered here is not from RME, but customers who know exactly why they use and prefer RME.
A certain BIAS is not "bad by nature", if you still know for what reason and if you can give valid reasons for that ;-)

At the end you can buy what you want. I am making proposals and you have the final choice.

> I need at least 6 ADAT at a minimum
6x ADAT is misleading, sounds as if you want 6 ADAT I/O ports IN and OUT.
ADAT is an optical link with 8 channels at single speed (44.1/48 kHz). 4ch at double speed, 2ch at quad speed (192 kHz).
Sometimes ADAT ports can be switched to SPDIF protocol which is two channel @44.1 - 192 kHz.

A valid setup might still be for you e.g.:
Multiface II --------- ADAT IN ------<---- ADA8200
                +--------- ADAT OUT ---->----+
(clock master).....................................(clock slave)

Or any other preamp / ad/da converter of your choice.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

9 (edited by Vocalpoint 2021-10-21 23:53:44)

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

ramses wrote:

If the Multiface II is connected by PCIe card, what's now the problem, that you think about replacing it with another recording interface from Presonus? I do not know these old PCIe cards exactly. Is it a driver issue ?

The real issue is non-technical - it is the loss of at least 6 analog connections now made via the old Mackie mixer. Once the mixer is gone - I do not have enough analog inputs (on the Multiface II) to do what I need to do.

The age of the RME is a lesser concern - but it is a concern. If I am going to replace the missing inputs - seems reasonable to replace them with something current (2021) AND something that would instantly interface with all my existing Presonus gear - while still getting more mileage from the aging RME. (using it to handle my missing inputs via ADAT)

ramses wrote:

Otherwise - if the Multiface is now still fully functional why don't you connect a mic preamp or ad/da converter through ADAT ?

Why Not is a great question. Again the ADA8200 does not exist any more. Any other options I should look at?

ramses wrote:

6x ADAT is misleading, sounds as if you want 6 ADAT I/O ports IN and OUT.

Sorry - I really need a minimum of 6 ADAT ports IN (3 stereo pairs @ 44.1khz) and then as long as I can route these ADAT input signals via TotalMix or Universal Control (or whatever main interface I move forward with) - to a set of outputs or headphone mixer I have here - that works for me.

Bottom line - losing inputs that I need - have to replace them in someway, shape or form - hopefully without costing a fortune.

VP

10 (edited by ramses 2021-10-22 10:19:02)

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

I know now why we had some confusion at the beginning in regards to selling your soundcard. You said initially, that you have a PCI card, later it turned out its a PCIe card. PCI and PCIe is not the same. PCI would indeed limit you much in terms of mainboard selection.

Now we get again a little confusion, because of all sudden you say you have some other Presonus devices that you might want to connect. Which devices ? How to you want/need to connect them to your recording interface. Maybe we need more ADAT ports on the recording interface..

> Again the ADA8200 does not exist any more.

The ADA8200 is the updated version of the ADA8000
https://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_ada … ragain.htm
Product description tells clearly "Successor to the Behringer ADA8000 Ultragain" and it can be ordered !!

It would have been better if you would have told us the whole story from the beginning:
- what devices you have and which of them you intend to connect to the recording interface (only this way we know how many ADAT ports you need and whether word clock is possible / required on any potential new recording interface)
- and what you need in TOTAL in terms of Mic inputs, Instr inputs, line inputs and outputs and also other ports like MIDI ..

Please provide a drawing of the current setup and the planned setup with all devices that should be part of the setup.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

11 (edited by Vocalpoint 2021-10-22 18:10:58)

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

ramses wrote:

Now we get again a little confusion, because of all sudden you say you have some other Presonus devices that you might want to connect. Which devices ? How to you want/need to connect them to your recording interface. Maybe we need more ADAT ports on the recording interface..

Thanks for the continued discussion. Regarding my Presonus investments - I have Eris E5 Monitors, The ATOM Midi controller, the new Revelator USB mike and of course Studio One Pro 5 is my one and only DAW Environment. The Studio One integration with a Presonus interface alone is worth the price of admission. And yes - I do realize that any of this stuff will (and does) work fine with the existing RME solution. It is simply a matter of doing homework and choosing wisely IF I decide to throw some money at this.

ramses wrote:

The ADA8200 is the updated version of the ADA8000https://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_ada … ragain.htm
Product description tells clearly "Successor to the Behringer ADA8000 Ultragain" and it can be ordered !!

Not sure what Thomann is smoking but here in Canada - this puppy is dead as dirt.

Amazon Canada - https://www.amazon.ca/Behringer-ADA8200 … B00E87OLFQ

Long and McQuade (here in Calgary) - https://www.long-mcquade.com/83695/Pro- … reamps.htm

I cannot find a single site in the country that actually has one of these. Maybe the UK is sitting on some mysterious stockpile but I am suspect of it actually being a supported product.

ramses wrote:

What devices you have and which of them you intend to connect to the recording interface (only this way we know how many ADAT ports you need and whether word clock is possible / required on any potential new recording interface)

The devices I need to have available to record/playback/listen/transfer from/record to include:

RODE NTV (Multiface 1 IN - Mono)
Taylor K4 Preamplifier (Multiface 2 IN - Mono)
Yamaha THR-10 (Multiface 3+4 Stereo)
POD HD Pro X (Multiface SPDIF IN Stereo)

Then I have these 3 devices (ALL Stereo) connected to the Mackie 1604VLZ:

MS Phononema (Turntable Preamp) (Mackie Channel 1+2)
Tascam 102 MKII (Cassette Deck) (Mackie Channel 3+4)
Tascam CD-OU1 Pro (Studio Reference CD Player) (Mackie Channel 5+6)

Which are then sent to the Multiface via the Mackie Sub Outs:

Mackie 1604VLZ Subout 1 -> (Multiface 5 IN - Mono)
Mackie 1604VLZ Subout 2 -> (Multiface 6 IN - Mono)
Mackie 1604VLZ Subout 3 -> (Multiface 7 IN - Mono)
Mackie 1604VLZ Subout 4 -> (Multiface 8 IN - Mono)

Taken overall - the Multiface is exactly one pair of inputs short to handle what I have as of this writing. If I ditch the Mackie - I need to replace those 6 inputs somehow via an ADAT Device OR find a new audio interface that can handle at least 10 analog inputs - but more like 12 or more (for future growth)

It also looks like it now needs to be a preamp as all of these devices will need adjustable gain.

I think adding 4 pairs of analog (via ADAT) would work very well AND would keep me in the RME world - but I need to actually find an affordable pre-amp that would work well.

Know too that these 3 devices (attached specifically to the Mackie) are NOT mission critical and are not in use 24x7- but I do need access to them as required and I do not want to be pulling out the console to repatch everything all the time.

Hope this makes a bit more sense now.

Cheers

VP

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

Check Behringer Website, the ADA8200 is not discontinued there.
https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0ATL
Maybe you can get this device in another country, also Thomann Ships to the US.
Its the least expensive and very flexible device.

> Taken overall - the Multiface is one pair of inputs short to handle all these connections.
> If I ditch the Mackie - I need to replace these 6 inputs via an ADAT Device - and it looks
> like it now needs to be a preamp as all of these devices need adjustable gain.

Nah. Microphones need an adjustable gain. These are devices with line level outputs.
Recording interfaces or AD/DA converter with analog ports support different reference levels (consumer / studio levels).
Such line inputs may have a little adjustment in form of digital gain, but thats much smaller compared to Mic inputs.

> MS Phononema (Turntable Preamp) (Mackie Channel 1+2)
> Tascam 102 MKII (Cassette Deck) (Mackie Channel 3+4)
> Tascam CD-OU1 Pro (Studio Reference CD Player) (Mackie Channel 5+6)

All line level devices, for those you can use
- pure AD converters with ADAT port
- mic preamp with combined Mic/Line inputs and ADAT port

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

ramses wrote:

Check Behringer Website, the ADA8200 is not discontinued there.
https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0ATL
Maybe you can get this device in another country, also Thomann Ships to the US. Its the least expensive and very flexible device.

Undestood - I may have to go the used route. I have never had more trouble trying to find one of these - even in the US but certainly nothing in Canada.

> Taken overall - the Multiface is one pair of inputs short to handle all these connections.
> If I ditch the Mackie - I need to replace these 6 inputs via an ADAT Device - and it looks
> like it now needs to be a preamp as all of these devices need adjustable gain.

ramses wrote:

These are devices with line level outputs. Recording interfaces or AD/DA converter with analog ports support different reference levels (consumer / studio levels). Such line inputs may have a little adjustment in form of digital gain, but thats much smaller compared to Mic inputs.

All line level devices, for those you can use:

- pure AD converters with ADAT port
- mic preamp with combined Mic/Line inputs and ADAT port

Good to know! That does open things up and bit and if I could find something like the ADA8200 - I would be golden. Will keep studying the options.

Cheers!

VP

Re: Multiface II - what is needed to use it's ADAT for another interface

Good luck VP

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro