• Registered: 2021-11-02
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Topic: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

I am new owner of RME ADI 2 DAC FS,when I use it with my poweramp useable volume is around -40,Auto Ref Level is ON.
How to operate with volume in -20 range?
Do I need attenuator or something like this https://www.tcelectronic.com/product.ht … Code=P0C32
and which settings of volume I will use?

This is specification of power amp:
• Ice Power 1200AS/2 Stereo Module
• 1200W 4Ohms 1 Channel Driven
• 2 X 600W 8Ohms 700W 4Ohms
• Dynamic range 20 Hz – 20 kHz, A-weighted 127dB
• SNR 135dB
• Distortion: THD+N - - 0.003 % 20Hz
• Frequency Response: 20 - 20kHz +/-0.5dB
• Input Impedance 38K Ohms
• Input Sensitivity 1200W 4Ohms 5.0Vrms
• 25.8 dB Gain
• Ultra High Damping Factor
• Max Output Current 38A

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-11-02 13:16:36)

  • ramses
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

See also this sticky: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

You could also get two of these less expensive Switchable attenuators
https://www.thomann.de/de/jts_ma_123.htm

As you have XLR on both sides which seems to be the case as you choosed the TC Level Pilot "X"
which also has XLR on both sides.

Proposal 1: dampen by e.g. 30dB, then you can set the volume on the DAC from -40 (+30) to -10. Then you have enough headroom to increase or lower the volume by 10dB and do not get a SNR below 118 dB.

Proposal 2: if you need more headroom in terms of higher volume, you can also dampen by -20 and set the volume on the DAC from -40 to -20 .. then you can raise the volume up to 20 dB.

See Excel below...

Or whatever you prefer ... if you want an even more flexible analog volume knob, well go for it, but then you loose the flexibility / feature of the DACs dynamic loudness...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3sz2jecz2mpjusq/2021-11-02%2013_06_45-Attenuation%20ADI-2%20DAC.jpg?dl=1

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2021-11-02
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

thx Ramses,
I use TC Pilot between DAC and poweramp to lower input in amp but I control volume on RME with Ref.Level volume ON.
Is this setup correct or is it better to use attenuators?
Input sensetivity of amp is 5Vrms.

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2021-11-02 15:15:00)

  • ramses
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

If you want to make use of features like auto reflevel and dynamic loudness then you will use the volume control of the ADI-2 DAC and in this case you do not need another volume control. You can use it of course for attenuation as you have the TC already.

But wait .. then I do not understand your initial posting ... You said your current volume setting is -40 which results (with auto reflevel enabled) in an optimized, but lower SNR of 98dB as you can see in the Excel.

Your concrete question was "How to operate with volume in -20 range?" and you didn't tell that you have already the TC, you asked what would be better, the one or the other way with attenuator.

If you have already the TC, why don't you simply turn the volume down on the TC a little bit more, so that a level of -20 at the DAC (which results into a SNR of 118dB at the DACs analog output) is finally not louder than your preferred volume ? Don't you have the TC for that purpose ?!

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2021-11-02
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

If I use RME direct to poweramp volume opearate around -40 values...-30 is to loud,Ref Level is on with -5 DBr.
I put TC in chain and adjust volume on potentiometer to use RME digital volume from -20 to -10.
Is this correct setting or is better to use attenuator or somethig else?
Maximum input voltage of my amp is 5Vrms,I think that is between -7 and -8 on volume level on RME,is this setting safe for amp and speakers?
Sorry for my English and misunderstanding.

6 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2021-11-02 19:20:50)

  • KaiS
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

draganmaj wrote:

If I use RME direct to poweramp volume opearate around -40 values...-30 is to loud,Ref Level is on with -5 DBr.
I put TC in chain and adjust volume on potentiometer to use RME digital volume from -20 to -10.
Is this correct setting or is better to use attenuator or somethig else?

Yes, that‘s the way to go.

Switched attenuators have a tiny advantage in THD, compared to continous controls.
But that difference is purely academic and usually not audible.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2021-11-02
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

OK,thanks for help.

  • Registered: 2021-01-12
  • Posts: 91

Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

How does the RME/Nord combo sound?

  • Registered: 2021-11-02
  • Posts: 9

Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

Very detailed but not harsh,deep controled bass with little help from EQ,but using some kind of attenuators is must.

  • Registered: 2021-01-12
  • Posts: 91

Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

draganmaj wrote:

Very detailed but not harsh,deep controled bass with little help from EQ,but using some kind of attenuators is must.

What advantage do the attenuators give?

  • Registered: 2021-11-02
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

Without attenuators is too loud to operate in optimal SNR range.
At end I use SHURE attenuators connected to power amp at end of cable with -20db attenuation.I think I have a little high frequency damping or it  is a personal opinion...i dont know.

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

Draganmaj,

Ramses, and KaiS are pointing you in the best direction!   Surely a bit of attenuation would allow you to fully exploit the RME's exceedingly high SNR performance, and yield a result you can be quite pleased with.

A set of switchable attenuators would be your best bet.   They don't cost a lot, and can really be of benefit to You. 

Welcome to the group!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

13 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2021-12-20 16:27:24)

  • KaiS
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

draganmaj wrote:

Without attenuators is too loud to operate in optimal SNR range.
At end I use SHURE attenuators connected to power amp at end of cable with -20db attenuation.I think I have a little high frequency damping or it  is a personal opinion...i dont know.

Probably just quieter, which always feels like less bright until you dial up again to the same level like before.

If it‘s this attenuator or one with comparable specs there is no chance that it affects the treble response:
https://pubs.shure.com/guide/A15AS/en-U … 1640012635

Attenuator’s output impedance is 150 Ohms, thats even little lower (read: little better) than ADI-2’s 200 Ohms.
You could easily drive 300 m cable without losses.

Due to the impedance situation RME - Attenuator - Amp the real attenuation will be about 21.5 dB, if you want to compare with or without.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2021-11-02
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

Yes,it is the attenuator I use.I assumed it was a subjective impression.

15 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2021-12-20 17:30:48)

  • vinark
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

mediummanting wrote:
draganmaj wrote:

Very detailed but not harsh,deep controled bass with little help from EQ,but using some kind of attenuators is must.

What advantage do the attenuators give?

None. They are exactly the same technology, your level pilot and a fixed attenuator. I used a level pilot without any issues for years until it started crackling because of old age lol.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2021-11-02
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

I tried both, the sound is better with a fixed attenuator. Probably a matter of impedance.

  • vinark
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

Ah good! Better how exactly?

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2019-01-07
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Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

Hi Vincent! Wonderful to see you here again.

What differences?  Clearly one device was simply more Nuanced, and Texturally Involving than the other.  big_smile

Nice to see you!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

19 Reply by draganmaj (edited by draganmaj 2021-12-20 19:50:42)

  • Registered: 2021-11-02
  • Posts: 9

Re: Setup with Nord Acoustic poweramp

Simply better for my ears,I dont know how to describe.I am hi-fi user of rme adi dac and that will explain a lot... smile