Topic: Babyface pro fs guitar clipping.

I am using a babyface pro fs to record an 8 string passive pickup guitar through the 3/4 instrument input.   The track is clean and I'm monitoring through reaper. Just clean guitar directly into reaper.

My problem is that I am getting a red clipping in totalmix and it is clipping in reaper reading a red 0.00 on the track I recorded in.

I have the extra 4db pad enabled and the gain on the track all the way down. I have reaper and the babyface operating at 24bits. So the extra headroom should be there.

The clipping only happens when I'm playing heavy palm mutes on the lowest string. But there is always so little headroom. Can a passive guitar pickups be that freaking hot ?

Is there a way to add a even greater pad? Or have more control over the input gain?

I've ordered an active di box to go through the xlr. I'm planning on using the built in pad on the di box and adjusting the gain in totalmix to taste without clipping. This seems to be a good compromise. But I was wondering if there were settings I was over looking that would remedy my occasional clips when using my 8 string directly through the babyface.

2 (edited by waedi 2021-12-04 02:56:06)

Re: Babyface pro fs guitar clipping.

Johnylogic wrote:

and the gain on the track all the way down.

Where exactly is this gain ? In the track in Reaper or inside the hardware input channel in Totalmix ?
A screenshot of your Totalmix would be helpful.
Often guitarists claim they have not enough gain, you have too much.
Without any gain in the input, I doubt that a guitar with passive pickups can make a clipping signal,
May be the EQ has a low boost and Eq is active for record.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Babyface pro fs guitar clipping.

https://imgur.com/a/cu5Lk4G

Here's a pic of the moment my guitar clips on the interface as shown in total mix and reaper. I have the eq and other effects turned off.

Granted this only happens when I strike the strings really hard in the right spot while I'm muting or palm muting the strings. that being said If I play back the audio right after recording with a clip, there's no mixer or track clip while playing back. And if I render the track with said clip, there's nothing over 0.00db.

Is this something I should just ignore because I can't really hear any difference, or should I attempt to correct the issue? I'm sure my other guitars wouldnt react exactly the same. I feel like it has something to do with the specific pick ups in my 8 string. Or maybe the pickup height?

Re: Babyface pro fs guitar clipping.

In this case I would place a compressor into the track in Reaper and record the output, it will give you back some headroom.
Bass sounds tend to have very asymmetric waveforms that goes into clipping.
Beside that I would ignore, like you mentioned.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

5 (edited by CrispyChips 2021-12-04 12:43:27)

Re: Babyface pro fs guitar clipping.

Quote: “I'm sure my other guitars wouldnt react exactly the same. I feel like it has something to do with the specific pick ups in my 8 string. Or maybe the pickup height?”


Test your other guitars, if they work fine as you think they will, you will know you have thought correctly.

That will then identify the 8 string guitar as the actual problem. No need to look further at the RME equipment, Reaper etc. Focus on fixing the guitar.

Often guitarists think it is a good idea to adjust their pickup height as close to the strings as possible in order to maximise the signal from the guitar. So, I’m wondering if that is the case here?

In point of fact, with particular guitar types and specific types of pickups, adjusting the pickups in such a manner can cause extremely wild sonic anomalies, as the strings are adversely affected by the intensely strong pull of the pickup’s magnets proximity as they vibrate.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/swd/ … strat-itis


If you are muting strings, tightly controlling the degree of string excursion, playing relatively quietly. Then in contrast, playing with completely open or fingered strings, maximising the degree of string excursion in relation to its proximity to the pickup. That is likely to expose the problems striking hard in an extreme manner. But there is an even more extreme condition possible. As muting itself, tightly controlling the string excursion, presses the string down, much closer to the pickup than normal. So hitting the string hard then, causing it to vibrate maximumly when at its very closest to the pickup, is probably what causes the issue.

There are many advantages to backing off pickups so that they are not so close to the strings. It usually results in a better sound, less string to string variation in volume across the pickup, cleaner brighter sound and for rhythm playing, a far better, more even balance from bass to treble for chordal work. Of course, if you are a good player you will want to be able to seamlessly transition from lead to rhythm and involve chordal moments and sections along with octave work into your lead playing too for heightened interest. All that will improve with pickups that are not too close to the strings.

The link below demonstrates the incorporation of such variety of styles that benefit from proper pickup height.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNjFBUYHVVo


The other thing that occurred to me is that sometimes due to the extreme thinness of the copper wire used in pickups, which are easily damaged. Or because of inadequate wax potting of the pickup in some cases. Or because of poor wiring of the pickups output, involving an intermittent fault.

There may be a defect that exposes itself only under very specific conditions that highlight it, thus escaping normal manufacturing quality control parameters. It’s worth considering that pickups for 8 string guitars are comparatively rare, with manufacturers producing far less of them and production operators far less used to fabricating and handling them. So, it may be a simple issue related to an intermittent fault on a specific pickup or elsewhere in the wiring.

The point is, by a process of trial and error testing you should be able to pinpoint which component on your instrument is actually causing the problem.

Perhaps a guitar tech’s help might be required or someone with electric testing equipment, meters etc. Along with electrical know how.

Maybe a guitar forum if you can find a good one will help you out if you really get stuck. The one linked has many experts.

http://fretsnet.ning.com/forum


Lower your pickups, and by a process of elimination, proceed logically.

You are Johnnylogic aren’t you?  smile

6 (edited by Johnylogic 2021-12-05 17:38:28)

Re: Babyface pro fs guitar clipping.

I've adjusted the bridge pickup on the 8 string. Lowered it a bit on the f# side. I can still cause total mix to clip if I try a couple times by striking the strings hard and it looks like I'm hitting the actual pickup on the way down with the pick as well. Seems excessive but it's something I've done out of habit when testing for levels before recording.

But I do feel like lowering the pickup helped a bit and going through an active direct in box just gives me a lot of control and headroom and eliminates clipping no matter how hard I play.

I'll report when I get around to trying my other guitars , this may be an isolated problem with my 8 string and particular pickups like crispychips suggested.

Re: Babyface pro fs guitar clipping.

Quote: “I can still cause total mix to clip if I try a couple times by striking the strings hard and it looks like I'm hitting the actual pickup on the way down with the pick as well. “


Hello Johnylogic, its good to read that you are making progress.

With respect, I would strongly urge you to get out of the habit of actually hitting the pickup as quickly as possible.

They are delicate electronic devices and internally, modern pickups use copper wire that is incredibly thin and very easily broken indeed.

Even the soldered joints where the delicate wires enjoin thicker wires that run to the pickup selector switch could suddenly break by the continuing impact.

Over the years I’ve had the opportunity to work with many fine guitarists. All the very of them tend to have a light touch on the fretboard and careful accurate control of their pick.
This facilitates speed, accuracy and control, so there are good reasons to develop optimal techniques.

If someone was punched somewhere sensitive, they would probably groan out loud.

It’s possible your guitar is doing the same. smile


The great guitarist Segovia, would say the guitar was shaped like a woman.

Treat it well, with love and care, and many problems you might otherwise experience, will be successfully avoided.

By the way, the guitar repair forum I pointed you too is not simply about fixing structural wood problems. Some of the Luthiers are experts on all guitar electronics.

Some, specialise in fabricating the type of electric guitar you use, and are total experts in all the typical problems of heavy shredders, and death metal artists, those who detune their instruments. The depth of their knowledge incalculable and there is lots of problem solving information on its sister site below you would benefit from reading.

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/pagelist.html#Musician

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJrEl4Nsmsg

Good Luck with your playing and recording!

Re: Babyface pro fs guitar clipping.

CrispyChips wrote:

Quote: “I can still cause total mix to clip if I try a couple times by striking the strings hard and it looks like I'm hitting the actual pickup on the way down with the pick as well. “


Hello Johnylogic, its good to read that you are making progress.

With respect, I would strongly urge you to get out of the habit of actually hitting the pickup as quickly as possible.

They are delicate electronic devices and internally, modern pickups use copper wire that is incredibly thin and very easily broken indeed.

Even the soldered joints where the delicate wires enjoin thicker wires that run to the pickup selector switch could suddenly break by the continuing impact.

Over the years I’ve had the opportunity to work with many fine guitarists. All the very of them tend to have a light touch on the fretboard and careful accurate control of their pick.
This facilitates speed, accuracy and control, so there are good reasons to develop optimal techniques.

If someone was punched somewhere sensitive, they would probably groan out loud.

It’s possible your guitar is doing the same. smile


The great guitarist Segovia, would say the guitar was shaped like a woman.

Treat it well, with love and care, and many problems you might otherwise experience, will be successfully avoided.

By the way, the guitar repair forum I pointed you too is not simply about fixing structural wood problems. Some of the Luthiers are experts on all guitar electronics.

Some, specialise in fabricating the type of electric guitar you use, and are total experts in all the typical problems of heavy shredders, and death metal artists, those who detune their instruments. The depth of their knowledge incalculable and there is lots of problem solving information on its sister site below you would benefit from reading.

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/pagelist.html#Musician

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJrEl4Nsmsg

Good Luck with your playing and recording!


Thank you for the knowledge and links.