Topic: Conversion - UFX+ vs ADI-2 FS R

Hi!
I currently run RME UFX+ on a PC under Windows 10, and my DAW is Cubase.
As a volume controller I use a Heritage Audio RAM System 2000.
My room is fairly but not perfectly treated, and my main monitors are Focal Twin 6.
I'm not a pro, but I have done this for many years.

Now I'm curious about getting an ADI-2 FS R, but I'm not sure if it's worth the money since it's hard to find any reviews that compare UFX+ vs ADI-2 FS R. Is there anyone here who has compared the conversions on those two side by side and is there any noticable leap in DAC quality to be expected?

Also I'm not that technical when it comes to connecting interfaces together and have a question about that.
Since you only can use one soundcard at a given time under windows 10 and Cubase - how do I connect the ADI-2 FS R to my UFX+ if I want to monitor through the ADI-2 FS R at the same time as I record stuff through UFX+? Via S/PDIF I guess, but is there any other way since my S/PDIF's are all in use. I'd also want to use the input on ADI-2 for my master bus outboard.

Any thoughts and opinions?

2 (edited by ramses 2022-01-03 09:34:51)

Re: Conversion - UFX+ vs ADI-2 FS R

I own two ADI-2 Pro FS R BE:
- one in combination with UFX+ (through AES) in the recording corner
- one in front of a High-End HiFi

It's a phantastic device and I am very satisfied with these units, I can only recommend it.

You can find information about it in my blog:
- Integration into your setup through AES or ADAT, as you prefer: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/
- Information about the different models and differences in feature set: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ses-EN-DE/

Sound wise .. I own both devices, but have no possibility for quick A/B testing / blind test.

From the converter shootout from Mark Einstmann (one of the Youtube Videos in the last blog) you can see, that the ADI-2 Pro FS plays on a high niveau where it is being compared with pure AD converter with 4x higher cost (up to €8000 for the Lavry Gold). Note: you can download the three original wav files from AD conversion of all three devices (as Youtube changes / reduces sound) and then compare on your own.

The differences are IMHO only subtle, so a great performance for RME and the ADI-2 Pro FS. BTW .. the other devices are specialized on AD conversion only, with the ADI-2 Pro you have AD/DA and tons of useful features), so much value for a still affordable price.

Best is, you try it out yourself in your environment and with your monitors / ears. And not only for the sound, but also for the very useful features.

ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, advantages for your setup, some examples:

  • excellent ad da conversion

  • support of four reference levels and a feature called auto reflevel that automatically chooses the optimum reference level so that SNR and dynamic is optimum over a much wider volume range of 20 dB (honours also B/T, PEQ and dynamic loudness settings in the calculation to select optimum reflevel)

  • ear protection by slow ramp-up of volume when plugging phones or switching between monitors and phones

  • key remapping feature: the four switches in the front can be remapped with useful functions, like e.g. switching between monitors and headphone. This saves you one of the 8 Snapshot slot on your UFX+.

  • dynamic loudness (as it should be!) so that music keeps it's body if you turn down the volume, customizeable

  • 5 band PEQ to compensate deficits of phones or hearing weakness, even  possible per channel

  • B/T controls to compensate bass and treble for bigger differences in music material/masters

  • "Bittest" to be able to perform an "end-to-end" test whether audio from a PC player was received lossless to ensure/check highest quality playback

  • State Overview Display ideal for troubleshooting status of digital connections (Sync, Sample Rate, State, Bit depth)

  • support for DSD in case you want/need it

  • Crossfeed for headphones: Bauer stereo to Binaural crossfeed effect emulates speaker playback by reducing the stereo width in the treble range. Adjustable in five steps.)

  • extreme power headphones outputs driving even phones that need a lot of power

  • balanced mode for phones in case you want it

  • useful status screens with the possibility to troubleshoot digital connections better

  • SRC (sample rate converter) to decouple the fix clock of digital devices like DAT and to automatically up-/downsample to the sample rate of the rest of your environment

  • two dac chips to connect and compare phones at the same type of da converter

  • can act as a monitor controller for your monitoring section finalising the end volume  so that a 0dB fader setting in TM FX can not harm your ears and/or equipment just in case you performed no proper level matching eg using attenuators if needed.

  • possibility to choose between different DA filter of your DAC for eg either most linear frequency courve or to use have an emphasis on other things of a little bit higher separation of certain percussive music instruments. These are only nuances and might depend on your room, equipment, etc (see KaiS's posting why he prefers slow filter for listening: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 68#p177168. Note: faster frequency rolloff of slow filter at single speed can be compensated by PEQ settings.

  • excellent remote control with a lot of functionality, but not too much, just right

  • remote control (key 1-4) can be programmed by the key mapping feature to e.g. compare different D/A filters, PEQ settings, etc

  • DSD support, in case you need it

  • and even more

Last recently very useful features have been added again by firmware update and even some more changes are upcoming.
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=34364

This device is a gem!

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Conversion - UFX+ vs ADI-2 FS R

Thanks ramses! I'll read your blog posts thoroughly smile

Re: Conversion - UFX+ vs ADI-2 FS R

For the sake of interest, I downloaded the three files from the following URL.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/...

It looks like all three files have the same bit rate (16 bit), the same file size (5625 KB) and the same sampling rate (48kHz). Therefore shouldn't be able to hear any difference.

5 (edited by ramses 2022-01-03 20:18:53)

Re: Conversion - UFX+ vs ADI-2 FS R

Andreas1 wrote:

For the sake of interest, I downloaded the three files from the following URL.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/...

It looks like all three files have the same bit rate (16 bit), the same file size (5625 KB) and the same sampling rate (48kHz). Therefore shouldn't be able to hear any difference.

They are just the same size because they have the same length at same sample rate and bit depth.
Only the distribution of zeros and ones (the music content) is different.

Try it out with a DAW if you do not believe.
Make three different recordings with a Mic.
Select the three tracks and cut as you like at the beginning and end to make them more compact and of exact equal length.
Then export the three tracks on a "per track" basis (not the stereo sum).
You will see that file sizes are the same, only the content is different.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Conversion - UFX+ vs ADI-2 FS R

ramses wrote:

Try it out with a DAW if you do not believe.
Make three different recordings with a Mic.
Select the three tracks and cut as you like at the beginning and end to make them more compact and of exact equal length.
Then export the three tracks on a "per track" basis (not the stereo sum).
You will see that file sizes are the same, only the content is different.

I had analyzed and also listened to all three files with the help of the DAW Cubase 11 Pro. Unfortunately, they are not only identical in terms of the above values, but also in terms of content.

Simply download it yourself all files from the server and import it into Cubase without conversion. Because the files on the server are the problem.

7 (edited by ramses 2022-01-04 13:25:52)

Re: Conversion - UFX+ vs ADI-2 FS R

I downloaded the files from tonstudio-forum.de.
I checked them with a diff tool (WinMerge)                             -> differences.
I imported them into Cubase (no conversion, 48 kHz, 16 bit) -> differences.

Regarding Cubase: the normal wave form in the list of tracks is not detailed enough to show the subtle differences in sound.
You need to click to the track and click below to open the Editor window.
Then make the track list smaller and the Editor Window taller.
Now cycle between the three tracks, you will see little differences in the wave form of EDITOR (not track)
I think that subtle differences between the converter will not create better visible differences.
Somehow this appears to me as a valid result, that the differences are only subtle.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Conversion - UFX+ vs ADI-2 FS R

Thanks @ramses.

I can only see the difference when I upscale the zoom factor from 1 x to 10017321 x. And then only for the background noise.

You definitely can't hear the difference with the three files, because the noise floor is well below 80 dBFS.

9 (edited by ramses 2022-01-04 13:32:16)

Re: Conversion - UFX+ vs ADI-2 FS R

Andreas1 wrote:

Thanks @ramses.

I can only see the difference when I upscale the zoom factor from 1 x to 10017321 x. And then only for the background noise.

You definitely can't hear the difference with the three files, because the noise floor is well below 80 dBFS.

That was different for me, when I enlarged my EDITOR window then I could see little differences there.
I ensured that the (if I remember right 3) rulers on the bottom and right hand side were at the same position.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13