51 (edited by Johannes AU 2022-02-03 12:27:59)

Re: A future owner question/s

surr3a1 wrote:
KaiS wrote:

Yes.

If you have the latest firmware - which sounds better than the one before because it has a higher number smile - sorry, excuse me, I couldn’t hesitate -
and activate “Load B/T w. Preset” in the EQ menu, you can see the effect in the EQ plot.

: )) Thanks for the reply and I get the joke!

Please guys, lets stop the cables discussion as it doesn't go into a good direction and I don't want to make "enemies" with any one of you here.

Question:
I want to try another power supply which is rated at 9V and 2A but the recommended range in the manual is 9.5-15V. Will there be a problem?

Thank you for your help!


Don't worry, we treat you as a friend, so provide the information for you. smile

You answered it already tp yourself about the power supply, 9V is too marginal... not recommended, the original PSU is good enough.

If you really need a standby power supply, 12V, 2A is on the safe side.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

Re: A future owner question/s

Surr,

Ref Pg.32 of the current User Manual (v3.0) for details regarding PSU Voltage requirements.    In short, the Analog Circuits in your device do not function below 9.3v.    A 9v supply is thus not suitable.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

53 (edited by ramses 2022-02-06 18:23:37)

Re: A future owner question/s

surr3a1 wrote:

Please guys, lets stop the cables discussion as it doesn't go into a good direction and I don't want to make "enemies" with any one of you here.

Question: I want to try another power supply which is rated at 9V and 2A but the recommended range in the manual is 9.5-15V. Will there be a problem?

According to RME you do not achieve better sound by getting another (more expensive) PSU.

Hint: the device reaches it's technical specs and the very good sound in reviews with the standard PSU, even in this converter shootout from a mastering engineer where the ADI-2 Pro is being compared to much more expensive mastering devices up to €8000 (for A/D only!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doHG32aXBDY

Makes more sense to think about different speaker position and/or working on room acoustic or last but not least to invest into better HiFi (amp / speaker) if you want to improve sound / 3D-stage significant should you still not be satisfied.
Fiddling around with cables or PSU is the most pointless and most expensive option, because it simply doesn't help.

I know, the HiFi forums are full of such proposals and everybody is so sure that it brings improvements (-> psychoacoustic effects). But proper comparisons with proper methodology do not exist (to exclude psychoacoustic effects), because it's not so easy (impossible) to perform quick and blind A/B comparisons, as you would need the equipment two times.

Another thing is that our ear / brain can not remember little sound details for longer than (I read) 200ms, therefore you need the possibility to make quick A/B changes.
Other aspect: every mastering engineer and ENT doctor knows that our ears differ in hearing capabilities over day. One of the rule of thumbs for mastering engineers is, to work not to long on one song, because ear/brain accomodates to the current sound. Therefore they also switch between projects to be able to listen more objective again.
The usual "HiFi citizen" does not know much (usually nothing) about all these thematics.
Therefore its always the same when HiFi and studio related customers (who produce your music!) meet the 1st time in a forum...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: A future owner question/s

A better headphone also benefits while you want to listen in private.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

Re: A future owner question/s

I imagine it wouldnt do any harm, and since RME clearly engineer everything to a high standard, i wouldnt be surprised if it worked ok at 9v.

Main downside that I can see is getting embroiled in debate about whether a different PSU can actually make any difference.

Re: A future owner question/s

Depends on the voltage regulators etc used. I theyre spec'd at 'minimum 9V' then 9V might be at the edge of working or not. Not really worth trying in my opinion (apart from just for fun to see what happens), is very unlikely to improve anything, but could lead to problems.

57 (edited by ramses 2022-02-03 20:57:57)

Re: A future owner question/s

There are hardly any limits to getting rid of your money wink

https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/linear-p … -2-dac-fs/
Option 3 ... only € 688,55.
Pure Silver DC Cable, Furutech Rhodium plated IEC inlet, SR Orange fuse, Isol-8 Wave mains lead to suit your country £695
Hmm where are the diamonds ?
Maybe with this PSU the ADI is much better than a Lawry Gold for €8000 ?! Questions about questions wink

I'm just concerned when the accessories are soon worth more than the whole system and if a honest vendor like RME tells you the normal PSU is fully sufficient and the device reaches it's measured and reviewed performance with it ...

In any case, I wouldn't hesitate to use the RME-designed power supply again should it ever break.
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_ntcardbus_x.htm
It's also nice when you can get something at a fair price.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

58 (edited by Curt962 2022-02-03 22:32:33)

Re: A future owner question/s

Surr,

If you go back a bit, you'd find I was one of the people who encouraged you to go RME!    I did so not because the RME was so primed for tweaks, but because it's a Reference Quality device right out of the box.  RME did the engineering, so we don't have to!  No "special" power supplies, or Dark Matter Cables are required.   RME engineered the device to a high level up front!  A level which ensures that neither the Product, nor Company Reputation can be tarnished by cheap manufacturing shortcuts, or shoddy engineering oversights.  Uh uh.  Doesn't happen here.

In agreement with Ramses, I think you're needlessly throwing money into a Cesspool of Illusions with "tweaks" that don't do nearly what one might think.

Don't believe me?  Look at this!  big_smile

https://www.machinadynamica.com/

These "Tweaks" improve Sound in much the same way that Alcohol makes Ugly People look good!!   
Clouded Judgement has been a Cash Cow for the Audio Snake Oil Magnates for many years.

Spend the Money, Catch the Buzz...and then Wake up!   Poorer, and no better than before.   Maybe if you're truly hearing "shortcomings" you need take a look around your listening environment.  Quite often, we Users, and our reluctance to address real issues are the Weak Link...not the device

Just saying...

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: A future owner question/s

Lol! Remember those green ink pens for CD´s. They where actually a thing. Deuterium shielded loudspeaker cables was another! The heavy water(D2O) and conductors were inside a clear plastic hose big_smile big_smile big_smile No ppl, saving my hard earned cash for some new loudspeakers or headphones! Put it where it matters.

Curt962 wrote:

Surr,

If you go back a bit, you'd find I was one of the people who encouraged you to go RME!    I did so not because the RME was so primed for tweaks, but because it's a Reference Quality device right out of the box.  RME did the engineering, so we don't have to!  No "special" power supplies, or Dark Matter Cables are required.   RME engineered the device to a high level up front!  A level which ensures that neither the Product, nor Company Reputation can be tarnished by cheap manufacturing shortcuts, or shoddy engineering oversights.  Uh uh.  Doesn't happen here.

In agreement with Ramses, I think you're needlessly throwing money into a Cesspool of Illusions with "tweaks" that don't do nearly what one might think.

Don't believe me?  Look at this!  big_smile

https://www.machinadynamica.com/

These "Tweaks" improve Sound in much the same way that Alcohol makes Ugly People look good!!   
Clouded Judgement has been a Cash Cow for the Audio Snake Oil Magnates for many years.

Spend the Money, Catch the Buzz...and then Wake up!   Poorer, and no better than before.   Maybe if you're hearing "shortcomings" you need take a look around your listening environment. 

Just saying...

Curt

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

60 (edited by Curt962 2022-02-03 23:13:54)

Re: A future owner question/s

Happy,

I'm much more into the Window Treatments.   smile

It's Huge!  (in some other dimension)

The "Teleportation Tweak" is the Ultimate.  Pay your money, call up a Modem, and blast that noise into your room to transform EVERYTHING!! 

Some WILL hear tremendous differences as a result!   (scary)

Curt

PS:  This Baby will expand your Soundstage!!!  wink

https://6moons.com/audioreviews/schumann3/schumann.html

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

61 (edited by Johannes AU 2022-02-04 07:09:57)

Re: A future owner question/s

He only ask a 9V, 2A power supply works or not ....seems he didn't mention about improvement from it ... if he tried it and found screen flickering, or power button red light blinking or get a warning message, he will be scared by his own decision....

I have some friends, years ago, they modify cars ... remapping the engine, replace the exhaust, you name it .... after they gain some power from the mod, they need to upgrade brakes ... a long list .... today, they are driving a normal family car, no modifications at all and smile.....

My car has no mod, just good tyres, main aim is less road noise, and good on wet road, Michelin Primacy 4, 320 Euro for 4, made in Germany, week 16/2021, good price.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

62 (edited by Curt962 2022-02-04 14:15:49)

Re: A future owner question/s

Our intentions here are good, so I hope no one takes offense at our resistance to alterations, and tweaky ancillaries.   Of course if a user wishes to source a PSU for backup in case of emergency, etc that's completely understandable...provided it's a PSU that satisfies RME's specification.

It's when even the hint of "Upgrade-itis" rears it's Ugly Head that Recovering Audiophiles like myself lose our minds at the mere thought of chasing dreams through Rabbit Holes... wink

Lots of Money to be needlessly squandered in exchange for very dubious/non-existent returns. 

In only a few days time, We were first on USB Cables, then next on to  PSUs...so now when comes Capacitors?   sad

Let's encourage the OP to enjoy his new RME as designed, and avoid like the Plague any inclination to create a "FrankenDAC"

If a "different sound" is wished for?  RME cleverly incorporated EQ/BT functions to help you achieve that!   It's Great!

Peace Out,

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

63 (edited by Johannes AU 2022-02-04 14:20:49)

Re: A future owner question/s

Curt962 wrote:

Our intentions here are good, so I hope no one takes offense at our resistance to alterations, and tweaky ancillaries.   Of course if a user wishes to source a PSU for backup in case of emergency, etc that's completely understandable...provided it's a PSU that satisfies RME's specification.

It's when even the hint of "Upgrade-itis" rears it's Ugly Head that Recovering Audiophiles like myself lose our minds at the mere thought of chasing dreams through Rabbit Holes... wink

Lots of Money to be needlessly squandered in exchange for very dubious/non-existent returns. 

In only a few days time, We were first on USB Cables, then next on to  PSUs...so now when comes Capacitors?   sad

Let's encourage the OP to enjoy his new RME as designed, and avoid like the Plague any inclination to create a "FrankenDAC"

If a "different sound" is wished for?  RME cleverly incorporated EQ/BT functions to help you achieve that!   It's Great!

Peace Out,

Curt

My goodness, I was close to mention capacitor at speaker crossover.... tongue
Of course I will not modify it, if it fails, just get new parts from manufacturer.

Enjoy the RME and Music ~

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

Re: A future owner question/s

Jo,

Ja bestimmt!  Mind-Reading is my Second Job.

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

65 (edited by surr3a1 2022-02-06 17:48:16)

Re: A future owner question/s

Wow, again so many opinions in the short time that I didn't check. I did try an ifi high quality 9V power supply and compared it to the supplied one.
I can safely say that I didn't find any particular difference between the two and you do obviously know that I did find difference with the USB cables.
We can of course go on and argue if that difference was there or not for the cable but that is not the point. I was sure there is one while I am not for the power supply so I gave it back to the owner smile.

What I can say is that the 9V psu worked without any issues(a guy from RME support confirmed that it should work and it appears that the manual is not correct).

I compared both by playing something and then removing the cable and plugging the other cable. The device would always start on very fast and would not "complain" one little bit by these dozens of unplug/plug actions. That thing actually really impressed me. It is an amazing device and I love it wink!

Streamer: Bluesound Node
Amp: Arcam SA30
Speakers: KEF LS50 Meta
SUB: BK P12-300SB

66 (edited by ramses 2022-02-06 19:13:33)

Re: A future owner question/s

surr3a1 wrote:

Wow, again so many opinions in the short time that I didn't check. I did try an ifi high quality 9V power supply and compared it to the supplied one.

All goes into the same direction, use the default PSU and all is fine (as well as very cost efficient).

surr3a1 wrote:

[...] and you do obviously know that I did find difference with the USB cables.
We can of course go on and argue if that difference was there or not for the cable but that is not the point.

There is nothing to argue. Either you understand that an USB cable is completely neutral to sound or not.
With RMEs uniq feature "Bit test" (for ADI-2 DAC/Pro) you have the 1st time the ability to validate exactly that.

Last attempt: you need to see digitized audio as a sequence of bit values "zeroes and ones" (not an analog wave form).
The same way as computer data / backups are being reliably transferred over USB, the same way digitized audio data is being transferred unaltered / lossless.
[ side note: similar to audio transfers between recording interfaces to connected preamps or AD/DA converter, only a different transfer medium, USB ]
The D/A converter is the final instance that converts digital audio data back to a wave form.
The Bit test can visualize to you, that digitized audio is being transferred unaltered from source (player) to destination (the last circuits in front of the D/A converter).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

67 (edited by KaiS 2022-02-06 18:45:48)

Re: A future owner question/s

Johannes AU wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

... In only a few days time, We were first on USB Cables, then next on to  PSUs...so now when comes Capacitors?   sad

Let's encourage the OP to enjoy his new RME as designed, and avoid like the Plague any inclination to create a "FrankenDAC"

My goodness, I was close to mention capacitor at speaker crossover.... tongue
Of course I will not modify it, if it fails, just get new parts from manufacturer.

Enjoy the RME and Music ~

No capacitors in ADI-2 DAC’s or Pro’s output signal path!

Only at Pro’s analog input as DC block, in a special pre-biased bipolar arrangement, the big green ones in the picture back left:
https://www.synthax.co.uk/latest/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/RME-ADI-2-Pro-Anniversary-Edition-03-Musikmesse-2017-Synthax-Audio-UK.jpg

In fact capacitors do measurably distort, ALL OF THEM more or less.
It’s about how to handle signals and impedances in the circuit to avoid this to practically show up.

68 (edited by surr3a1 2022-02-06 19:44:38)

Re: A future owner question/s

I've done the bit test and every single file passes w/o issues smile

Streamer: Bluesound Node
Amp: Arcam SA30
Speakers: KEF LS50 Meta
SUB: BK P12-300SB

69 (edited by Curt962 2022-02-07 01:33:30)

Re: A future owner question/s

KaiS wrote:
Johannes AU wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

... In only a few days time, We were first on USB Cables, then next on to  PSUs...so now when comes Capacitors?   sad

Let's encourage the OP to enjoy his new RME as designed, and avoid like the Plague any inclination to create a "FrankenDAC"

My goodness, I was close to mention capacitor at speaker crossover.... tongue
Of course I will not modify it, if it fails, just get new parts from manufacturer.

Enjoy the RME and Music ~

No capacitors in ADI-2 DAC’s or Pro’s output signal path!

Only at Pro’s analog input as DC block, in a special pre-biased bipolar arrangement, the big green ones in the picture back left:
https://www.synthax.co.uk/latest/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/RME-ADI-2-Pro-Anniversary-Edition-03-Musikmesse-2017-Synthax-Audio-UK.jpg

In fact capacitors do measurably distort, ALL OF THEM more or less.
It’s about how to handle signals and impedances in the circuit to avoid this to practically show up.


Wow KaiS!

That was a lot of typing, completely out of context. smile

Curt

*Look up the Word "facetious" to better understand my Capacitor comment. wink

I've been doing English as a first language a very, VERY long time.  It's a very tricky language, full of contextual cues, and "implied" meanings.
Translators are notoriously bad at detecting these. So, please don't Bandstand on my words unless you know exactly what was said.

@Surr.  If your Cable passes Bit Test, then you can be assured that it's doing no harm to the data being passed through it.    Interestingly enough?  The Cable RME includes in the Box ALSO passes Bit-Test.   

I'm not sure where these perceived improvements are coming from, as even the slightest alteration of the data is a no-go.  The term Psychoacoustic has been mentioned here more than once.   wink

Have Fun anyway!  We'd really enjoy your presence here!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

70 (edited by surr3a1 2022-02-09 20:02:16)

Re: A future owner question/s

I do get the Bit Test idea to some extend but I absolutely disagree that the digital signal is "0" and "1". That is simply not true at all.

There are no "0" nor "1" in any signal and stating otherwise is plain childish.

The signal is current with certain value which can be altered by the cable. I hope that we don't need to explain this to anyone.

Decoding the signal is done with certain tolerances and in a certain way. If the current is not transferred perfectly to the other side(which it never is) then one "0" can become "1" and vice versa, and this is a fact!

If that happens in this case and with this DAC is a different case and a different reality of course.

What everyone needs to remember is that there are no numbers jumping inside a cable so, please, stop this saying because it is annoying!

Streamer: Bluesound Node
Amp: Arcam SA30
Speakers: KEF LS50 Meta
SUB: BK P12-300SB

71 (edited by Curt962 2022-02-09 20:35:57)

Re: A future owner question/s

Surr,

Your hypothesis is likely to lead you into dangerous waters.   Last I knew, a Binary System such as Digital Audio operates with levels which represent either a Logic Low (0) or a Logic High (1)   There is no middle ground.

Cables, Sftwr, Etc which randomly change highs to lows, or vice versa are PRECISELY what BIT TEST looks for, and MANOMAN!  It's really good at finding these alterations. wink

The Bit Test Data received by the DAC, MUST match the imbedded template precisely, or Bit Test fails.

So? 

Hang On!!  wink

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

Re: A future owner question/s

I absolutely disagree that the digital signal is "0" and "1". That is simply not true at all.

then one "0" can become "1" and vice versa, and this is a fact!

In the heat of the moment...

Re: A future owner question/s

https://youtu.be/grzoqEb2KMk

This is an attempt at explaining how and why it could happen. I am not saying that it does happen with the Adi DAC! All I am saying is that a USB cable is not something rock solid which we assume is absolutely 100% perfect all of the time.

The bit test is only 4s long so what does happen with 10min long signal... is it exactly the same case?

Streamer: Bluesound Node
Amp: Arcam SA30
Speakers: KEF LS50 Meta
SUB: BK P12-300SB

74 (edited by ramses 2022-02-09 22:36:40)

Re: A future owner question/s

surr3a1 wrote:

I do get the Bit Test idea to some extend but I absolutely disagree that the digital signal is "0" and "1". That is simply not true at all.

There are no "0" nor "1" in any signal and stating otherwise is plain childish.

The signal is current with certain value which can be altered by the cable. I hope that we don't need to explain this to anyone.

Decoding the signal is done with certain tolerances and in a certain way. If the current is not transferred perfectly to the other side(which it never is) then one "0" can become "1" and vice versa, and this is a fact!

If that happens in this case and with this DAC is a different case and a different reality of course.

What everyone needs to remember is that there are no numbers jumping inside a cable so, please, stop this saying because it is annoying!

I'm sorry, but you somehow still have misconceptions about how this all ties together.

Look, this is the data format of a wav file:
http://www.ringthis.com/dev/wave_format.htm

Your audio data can be up to 32bit (see the last line there).

Such data packets are being transferred between sender (a player) and a receiver (the DAC).

Digital audio is nothing but data in a certain format. Header and payload, same like with network protocols in computer networks (header and payload, payload is the actual data being transferred in 0's and 1's, binary format).
The up to 32 bit of data are represented by bit values (0's or 1's).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_file

Once the binary audio data arrives at the DAC chip, then the DAC performs a conversion from binary data (0's and 1's) to a real analog wave form.

Between sender (player) and receiver (DAC chip) you will always have the same sequence of data.
If the data would change it would mean, that your wave file has been corrupted during transfer.
This can happen due to
- transport errors which you can see as CRC error or hear as audio drop
- change of volume at the player or sending it through an audio driver which doesn't work lossless

The Bit test checks that a predefined binary file arrives in good shape. The 32bit of audio data / payload.
If this test file arrives in good shape between player and DAC chip, then also other audio data will survive the transport. That is the idea behind the bit test.

With the bit test you can validate from source to destination (player to DAC chip) that audio (binary) data in a certain format will be transferred lossless / unchanged.
And this you can validate through e.g. USB, ADAT, SPDIF, MADI ...
Whatever transport you choose .. with the Bit test you check whether the "payload" / the digitized audio (the 32bit inside of a data packet in a certain format) are still the same.
At the very end headers are stripped from a packet and the pcm audio data are being send through the DAC to make the D/A conversion. Then you have no zeroes and ones anymore, there you have again an analog waveform.

This is always the same principle of digital data transfer.

The only difference with the ADI-2 DAC/Pro is, that he has additional features that other devices do not have.
- can show you CRC errors in the driver
- you can check with Bit test for lossles audio transfer
- you can manipulate the audio data in the DSP in front of the DAC chip (B/T, PEQ, dynamic loudness) ...
And so on and so on.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: A future owner question/s

Thanks @ramses for this wonderful explanation!

Is it the same with music streaming as it is with files playing from your own storage?

Streamer: Bluesound Node
Amp: Arcam SA30
Speakers: KEF LS50 Meta
SUB: BK P12-300SB

Re: A future owner question/s

Surr,

It's Digital Data no matter. 

Given the Vast Distances over which Critical Digital Data is routinely transmitted should give us reason to believe that it's a fine system of data transfer.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

77 (edited by ramses 2022-02-09 23:06:03)

Re: A future owner question/s

Reliable data transmission is extremely important and covers the most important areas of our lives: internet mail, purchases and payments over internet, online banking, telephony services, sms transfer, whatsup, video conferencing, ...

surr3a1 wrote:

Thanks @ramses for this wonderful explanation!
Is it the same with music streaming as it is with files playing from your own storage?

I'm glad it helped you, surr. Perhaps it will still need some time until everything settles,
but I really hope that this will give us a better common base / understanding for the future.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: A future owner question/s

surr3a1 wrote:

The bit test is only 4s long so what does happen with 10min long signal... is it exactly the same case?

This is actually a good point. I've tried (and managed) to forcefully induce bit errors in USB and other cables, and investigated problems with it, and especially in those cases where there's a seemingly random external influence causing the error it can take hours to figure out what.

79 (edited by ramses 2022-02-10 09:26:19)

Re: A future owner question/s

For this type of USB transport errors you have the CRC check in the driver settings, there you can perform long term checks by looking at the counters. The settings window needs to stay open for it.

The Bit test is more to catch "systematic" or configuration errors that hinder lossless transport, e.g.:
- changing volume of the audio player from 100% to another value
- wrong parametrization of windows audio when selecting a WASAPI driver (Windows audio enhancements, ..)
- validation that your connection is lossless, either it is or not
- to be able to say good-bye to some HiFi myths by validating lossless audio transfers from player up to the DAC chip
  if the digitized audio data in form of 0's and 1's stays unaltered until "just in front of the D/A converter chip"
  then the result of the D/A conversion will always be the same -> same / identical sound

Don't forget, USB connection is not that fragile .. think about what you all do over USB in high speed
- reliably backup of data to USB disks
- reliable transfer of up to 394 audio channels between computer and recording interface
  see MADIface XT - https://www.rme-audio.de/de_madiface-xt.html

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: A future owner question/s

surr3a1 wrote:

Did a lot of testing today with different USB cables... whoever claims that there is no difference or that the provided USB cable is giving all the music there is, is simply mistaken or never ever did a comparison test with decent cables!

More clarity and detail with this Oehlenbach OCC copper USB cable. Obviously it is not day and night but it is better!:
https://www.oehlbach.com/en/new-product … b-primus-b

I've the same OEHLBACH USB interconnect cable between my RME ADI-2 PRO AE and my Laptop which is connected to an external USB Harddisc with all my ripped music Albums.

I fully agree with @surr3a1 that the OEHLBACH USB 2.0-kabel type A naar type B - USB Primus B - sounds fabulous. Much tighter bass , more separation between voices and instruments, better soundstage than previous cheaper OEHLBACH USB cable. My listening experience, using Sennheiser HD 650, has been significantly increased!

81 (edited by surr3a1 2022-02-16 14:01:43)

Re: A future owner question/s

@itseoost: now wait and see smile

Seriously though, the difference wasn't night and day but there was some improvement. I haven't done the test since because frankly I'm a bit lazy.

I was comparing that day the included cable, one Oehlbach and one Furutech cables. I could definitely hear a difference between both the expensive ones and the generic but couldn't separate between the expensive ones. With the Furutech being even more expensive than the Oehlbach, I just went with the latter.

Just as a comparison, changing coaxial or analgoue cables makes much more audible difference.

I don't know if the same principles explained above about the USB cables apply for a coax being again a digital transport but I definitely wouldn't agree with an opinion claiming that these sound the same.

Streamer: Bluesound Node
Amp: Arcam SA30
Speakers: KEF LS50 Meta
SUB: BK P12-300SB

Re: A future owner question/s

Please refrain from such discusssions here.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

83 (edited by surr3a1 2022-02-16 14:05:11)

Re: A future owner question/s

RME Support wrote:

Please refrain from such discusssions here.

What do you mean by "such" or more precisely, which part of the whole discussion in particular?

Streamer: Bluesound Node
Amp: Arcam SA30
Speakers: KEF LS50 Meta
SUB: BK P12-300SB

Re: A future owner question/s

surr3a1 wrote:

There are no "0" nor "1" in any signal and stating otherwise is plain childish.

As others have observed, you seem to have some serious misconceptions about the basics of digital audio. Furthermore, USB is not an audio signal, it's a data transfer (even more 0 and 1) with audio embedded. There is no way you could explain how cable tolerances and changes to to some of those 0s and 1s could lead to specific, reproducible (!) changes of certain very vague sound characteristics (what does "separation" mean?). If data were corrupted by the cable, you'd get totally different effects. No cable can specifically change certain bits that would correspond to certain characteristics in sound. No such thing exists, quite simply.

Therefore, I will close the thread if there are further discussions about "USB cable sound". This does not belong here, sorry.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: A future owner question/s

If any of you was correct, there wouldn't be any difference in this graph but there is.
You can lock the topic though as it really doesn't matter and we don't need to argue about it:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … ence.1887/

Streamer: Bluesound Node
Amp: Arcam SA30
Speakers: KEF LS50 Meta
SUB: BK P12-300SB

Re: A future owner question/s

Argue about it on the other forum... Or explain how exactly the USB cable knows which bit in aan audio signal embedded in a data transfer needs to be changed to cause "less separation" or "more distortion". How does the USB cable know what's an audio bit and what's a USB data bit? The measurements above are of no value at all, since noone knows how well they were done and what other factors might contribute.

Thread closed.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

87

Re: A future owner question/s

surr3a1 wrote:

If any of you was correct, there wouldn't be any difference in this graph but there is.
You can lock the topic though as it really doesn't matter and we don't need to argue about it:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … ence.1887/

You seem to not have read that post completely, or not understood it. The measured differences (which are still inaudible) stem from a (quote) 'horribly designed' DAC. Most other DACs, even the shown cheap Behringer one, do not show any measurable difference.

Now you use a DAC with SteadyClock FS which blows away any even tiniest, no longer measurable difference from whatever USB cable used. You are just fooling yourself when 'hearing' differences.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME