• Registered: 2021-12-08
  • Posts: 2

Topic: Help setting Ref Level

Greetings! I'm going to admit that the RME-ADI2 DAC has opened a whole new world of terminology and
subject matter that I'm ignorant of. Which is great! Because I'm learning. But I could use some help
understanding what the best settings for Ref Level would be in my particular setup.

Node (v3) -> Coax -> RME-ADI2 DAC -> RCA -> Musical Fidelity M1PWR -> Paradigm 40b + RCA
from loop outs to JBL D110

I can't seem to find the input sensitivity for the power amp... MF M1PWR. Is this what we would use
to determine the best ref level for what is essentially an IcePower amp?

When I select auto ref, it ends up at -5, and most of my listening occurs in the -50 to -40 dBr range...
and when I turn it off, and run it +7 most of my listening occurs in the -40 to -30 dB range.

I have a small room, listening distance is usually only 7', and the speakers are sensitive (Room / Anechoic 92 dB / 89 dB).

In 31.12 Operation in the Hi-Fi Environment the manual states:

"With Hi-Fi, the setting +7 dBu (equals +4.78 dBV or 1.73 V RMS) is recommended. This setting causes an ADI2-DAC to ouput level similar to that of many CD-players."

Is this assuming that when "Operating in a Hi-Fi Environment" and outputting at a level similar to CD Players, it would NOT be acting as a pre-amp... that this 1.73 V signal would be used as an INPUT to a pre-amp?

Therefore, since I AM using the ADI2 as a pre-amp... and I AM using its volume control... I'm better off allowing it to auto-adjust?

19.3 Line out XLR (seems to be the ONLY explanation of Auto-Ref I can find in the manual)

"The analog outputs also feature a mechanism to set the ref level automatically. Auto Ref Level maximizes the S/N ratio when using the volume knob."

OK... so I AM using the volume knob. Therefore again, I should use Auto-Ref .... correct?

I have read through the "Where to adjust volume" and "Level mismatch solutions" threads and just come away more confused than ever.  I'm not sure what I'm experiencing here is a level mismatch requiring attenuation or what.



Should I just keep it on Auto-Ref and not care that I'm so deep into the negative numbers?



What REF level will make this little power amp most happy? Thank you for your assistance!

2 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-01-05 21:46:05)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,183

Re: Help setting Ref Level

Clear case to use “Auto Reference Level“.

That‘s it, nice, isn‘t it?!


Not really necessary, but you could use some passive attenuators to reach into the -20 dBr volume range:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p120442

Practically you won’t notice an audible difference.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2021-12-31
  • Posts: 1

Re: Help setting Ref Level

I’m a new user of the ADI2 DAC and have been having a similar issue.  I’m using the DAC to directly drive my power amplifiers which according to the manufacturer have a sensitivity of 380mV (unbalanced RCA connection).  I turned Auto Ref on and the DAC has selected a output level of -5dBu as I expected but I’m finding I’m having to put the volume control in the -30 to -40 dBr range to get my usual listening level.  I’m guessing the amplifier manufacturer has underestimated the sensitivity of the PA.

Despite this it still sounds very good but I’ve decided to try some level attenuators.  To this end I’ve ordered a pair of the ILA1020’s which should be with me in a few weeks……currently out of stock with all the suppliers I tried in the U.K. but the distributor has assured me some will be available in a couple of weeks.  In the meantime I’ll just carry on pushing a bit more music through this impressive little DAC.

Regards,
Chris

4 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-01-06 16:48:15)

  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: Help setting Ref Level

chrisWd wrote:

I’m a new user of the ADI2 DAC and have been having a similar issue.  I’m using the DAC to directly drive my power amplifiers which according to the manufacturer have a sensitivity of 380mV (unbalanced RCA connection).  I turned Auto Ref on and the DAC has selected a output level of -5dBu as I expected but I’m finding I’m having to put the volume control in the -30 to -40 dBr range to get my usual listening level.  I’m guessing the amplifier manufacturer has underestimated the sensitivity of the PA.

Despite this it still sounds very good but I’ve decided to try some level attenuators.  To this end I’ve ordered a pair of the ILA1020’s which should be with me in a few weeks……currently out of stock with all the suppliers I tried in the U.K. but the distributor has assured me some will be available in a couple of weeks.  In the meantime I’ll just carry on pushing a bit more music through this impressive little DAC.

Regards,
Chris

Sensitivity of the RCA input is not the acceptable value of voltage/dB.

KaiS wrote:

It’s not too complicated if you’re familiar with gain staging and digital audio formats.

Think of the ADI-2 as blocks:
• Digital Input (no headroom)
• Optional Sample Rate Converter (3-6 dB adjustable headroom)
• Digital Processing and Volume Control (24 dB headroom)
• DA-Conversion, digital part (no headroom)
• DAC chip’s analog stage (ca. 3 dB headroom)
• ADI-2’s analog output amplifier (DAC 18 dB, Pro 20 dB mechanical relay stepped gain staging)

Practically the “Auto Reference Level” function does all necessary calculations and adjustments (digital volume and analog reference level) for you, so you just don’t need to care.

I found the above post of KaiS, which is a very clear and good explanation, perfect for understanding the DAC and Auto Ref level.

And, normal RCA input takes approx. 2V, which is 8dBu, (+7dBu + 1dBu at fixed output, at auto ref level, turn it to+13dBu -5dBr)

Having to put the volume control in the -30 to -40 dBr range to get your usual listening level, could be your amp is very powerful, then you might need inline attenuators.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

5 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2022-01-06 17:41:33)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Help setting Ref Level

KaiS said:  "Practically the “Auto Reference Level” function does all necessary calculations and adjustments (digital volume and analog reference level) for you, so you just don’t need to care"

Yep!

Auto-Ref is genius, and really eliminates the need for all the Nail-Biting, and Hand-Wringing we often see here amongst users seeking the Ne Plus Ultra of fixed Ref Levels, etc.

The RME's Auto-Ref is doing the calculations, and heavy lifting for you.   

Let it do it's job, and enjoy!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

6 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-01-06 17:58:37)

  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: Help setting Ref Level

Curt962 wrote:

KaiS said:  "Practically the “Auto Reference Level” function does all necessary calculations and adjustments (digital volume and analog reference level) for you, so you just don’t need to care"

Yep!

Auto-Ref is genius, and really eliminates the need for all the Nail-Biting, and Hand-Wringing we often see here amongst users seeking the Ne Plus Ultra of fixed Ref Levels, etc.

The RME's Auto-Ref is doing the calculations, and heavy lifting for you.   

Let it do it's job, and enjoy!

Curt


I did nail-biting, hand wringing before ... seeking the Ne Plus Ultra at my early days of the level setting .... you knew it Curt.

I learnt a lot here from friendly members, now I enjoy the Auto-Ref everyday and happy to explain it to new user/comer, wish I can contribute something. But don't forget to correct me if I make mistake(s) smile

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

7 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2022-01-06 18:19:56)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Help setting Ref Level

Ahhh...Johannes,

We had fun right?  smile

I'm not sure which of the RME's functionalities appealed to me most some years ago, but I definitely migrated toward Auto-Ref very quickly after taking the RME out it's Box!

I pushed all the buttons back then.  Now?  I sit back on Cruise Control and let the RME figure it all out so nicely as it does.

I'm a button pusher, knob twiddler, lever puller, cable jiggler, etc by profession, and it is the LAST THING I wish to do on my home time. wink

Keep on Enjoying!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: Help setting Ref Level

Curt962 wrote:

Ahhh...Johannes,

We had fun right?  smile

I'm not sure which of the RME's functionalities appealed to me most some years ago, but I definitely migrated toward Auto-Ref very quickly after taking the RME out it's Box!

I pushed all the buttons back then.  Now?  I sit back on Cruise Control and let the RME figure it all out so nicely as it does.

Keep on Enjoying!

Curt


Thank you Curt.

You know during the hard time in past 3 years at Hong Kong, together with 2 years of pandemic, music is the best anaesthetization.... and the fun of RME and this forum are priceless!

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

9 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2022-01-06 18:31:03)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: Help setting Ref Level

Jo,

Money can't buy this sort of entertainment. wink

That, and we're trying to converse about REAL issues, rather than the Schlock you might find elsewhere.

Best Jo!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2021-12-08
  • Posts: 2

Re: Help setting Ref Level

Curt, Jo, KaiS - Thank you all for your replies!  I love set it and forget it stuff... the ADI sounds amazing.  I'll stick with Auto-Ref... and forget about it!  Cheers