1 (edited by skhan007 2022-01-24 04:02:53)

Topic: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

I've had my ADI-2 DAC FS for several months and absolutely love it. I use ZMF Auteur and Verite Open headphones (300 Ohms).

For my first venture into amps, I paired it with a Bottlehead Crack Speedball and noted that I'm not too crazy about how the tube amp "blurs" sounds and leaves me with lack of definition, clarity, and imaging. The low-end extension and sub bass, is quite nice however. I guess this is the tube amp experience. Warm, but undefined and blurring of certain instruments. I guess I prefer analytical or distinct separation in my listening.

When I plug my headphones directly into the ADI-2 DAC FS headphone out (hi-power mode), all the clarity is there, separation & imaging are great, and there is good definition of high frequencies. However, I'm not sure I'm hearing the same depth to the low-end frequencies.

My question: I've read and watched videos that recommend the Benchmark HPA4 or the Topping A90, but I'm curious if my ADI-2 DAC FS headphone out is roughly the same as using of these highly-regarded external amps?

If you guys were in my situation, would you recommend an external solid state amp or do you feel the ADI-2 DAC FS headphone amp covers this ground? I'm especially curious about bass/sub-bass, as I know the detail and imaging sound to be there already for mids, upper-mids, and high frequencies. I am absolutely fine with using EQ and currently use some of the recommended targets published on-line for my headphones.

Thank you in advance!

Re: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

> My question: I've read and watched videos that recommend the Benchmark HPA4 or the Topping A90, but I'm curious if my ADI-2 DAC FS headphone out is roughly the same as using of these highly-regarded external amps?

There is no point using the hpa4 or a90, unless adi-2 is not loud enough for you.
Adi-2’s hp amp has very low noise and distortion and reaches/exceeds the performance of the DAC.
You won’t get better performance with hpa4 or a90. All three are pretty equivalent in topology or performance
The latter is only better with higher power output.

3 (edited by ramses 2022-01-24 05:37:35)

Re: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

Their focus is to make a cheap product and to sell many.

Feature wise they these products can't compete in any way with RME, get an overview here ...

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … ses-EN-DE/

... also not in terms of product lifecycle / driver support, documentation, add-on software like DIGIcheck (free of charge), excellent support by RME and community on user forum and implementation of customer requests where possible.

RME will deliver to you a transparent sound and it will drive your phones nicely.
If low end is missing for you, then this is a deficit of your headphones. Try Audeze LCD-X.
These planar phones deliver to you bass ... a precise bass.
Even Rob Katz was amazed by it and rated the bass to be better compared to his stax solution (that was told on innerfidelity forum which doesn't exist anymore).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

4 (edited by ning 2022-01-24 08:55:39)

Re: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

> Their focus is to make a cheap product and to sell many.

The benchmark hpa4 is certainly not cheap ---  it costs 3 times as much as ADI-2 DAC.
Topping A90 is also super expensive, if you take its BOM, support and feature set into account.
Compared to those two products, ADI-2 DAC is certainly priced very competitively.

I agree with the rest of the points you made, though.

Only two benefits of those two products are 1) more power 2) lower noise, if you use the analog volume control. Especially true with the benchmark HPA4, where volume is controlled via relays, can maintain good channel balance.
In case ADI-2 can already drive your phones loud enough (which is 99% of the case), or you cannot hear any noise with your ADI-2 (also true 99% of the cases),
You gain nothing from those products. You lose, however, useful features such as loudness when adjusting volumes on the HP amp.

5 (edited by ramses 2022-01-24 08:59:23)

Re: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

ok, sry, misunderstanding, thanks for clarifying ning.

All benchmark and topping products from threads that I remember were about cheaper products with the tenor "why is RME more expensive". Didn't notice, that there are more expensive ones.

Therefore I got the impression, that those companies focus on less expensive devices...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

skhan007 wrote:

When I plug my headphones directly into the ADI-2 DAC FS headphone out (hi-power mode), all the clarity is there, separation & imaging are great, and there is good definition of high frequencies. However, I'm not sure I'm hearing the same depth to the low-end frequencies.

“High Power” does not change the amp all, it only switches the analog level after DA-conversion.

The headphone-amp-stage always runs on full, high power.
Therefore you gain better sound quality when using “Auto Reference Level”.


EQ is the key to tailor the bass to your liking, this changes million time more than buying an extra amp.
ADI-2 is top notch and hard to beat anyway.


Store different EQ presets, tweak and store again, compare until you worked your way up to where you want to go.

E.g., for 2 month now I have the Mysphere 3.2 combined with ADI-2, and it’s a dream team.

I worked my way through numerous iterations of EQ, first based on my own measurements, then tweaked again and again during listening.
By comparing the stored EQ presets you can make sure that your next version is a step up against the previous, constantly improving.

The ADI-2 / Mysphere 3.2 combo was good and special from the beginning, but now it’s a great listening experience, unique even within my collection of top-notch headphones.

7 (edited by skhan007 2022-01-25 01:31:48)

Re: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

Thank you everyone, for the replies. If there was a like button, I would hit that for every one of you. According to specs, my ADI-2 DAC should be comparable as a headphone amp to the ones I mentioned above. The Topping A90 is US$500 and the Benchmark HPA4 is US$3000, so significant expenditures. In terms of sound quality, I would like to believe my ADI-2 DAC is also comparable.

8 (edited by KaiS 2022-01-25 10:35:38)

Re: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

skhan007 wrote:

The Topping A90 is US$500 and the Benchmark HPA4 is US$3000, so significant expenditures. In terms of sound quality, I would like to believe my ADI-2 DAC is also comparable.

Once in your life you have to experience a true level matched, blind A/B test of different amplifiers.
I did that quite often, just to be sure, and it’s an ear opener:

The super tiny differences are almost indistinguishable between the amps.
It’s hard to get a hit rate identifying the amps significantly above random.


Opposed to that the Internet audiofool community is full of myths and snake oil.
People hear what they expect to hear by randomly plugging around stuff, then religiously publishing it as the final truth.
Most of what it written isn’t personal experience anyway but collected somewhere, republished again and again until it becomes “common knowledge”: “as everybody knows ...” - argh...

One of those myths is the idea of “power = control” which is again pure imagination, and sometimes technical misunderstanding.
Very few headphones need more than 100 mW to be driven to ear splitting levels.


In fact the only significant and sound changing difference between power amps is the output impedance, the only interaction that happens between amp and headphones.

You have the experience with your OTL tube amplifier which has a much higher output impedance than ADI-2.
In combination with the bass resonance of your headphone’s drivers, this leads to a frequency boost in the upper bass range.
Clearly audible as muddy bass.

Re: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

Power is not equals to control, and power is nothing without control.  RME offers power with best control smile

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

10 (edited by KaiS 2022-01-25 11:01:15)

Re: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

Johannes AU wrote:

Power is not equals to control, and power is nothing without control.  RME offers power with best control smile

“Control” (on a power amp) is a myth and does not exist.

There is output impedance, a technical reality, and it’s frequency response changing effect might be misunderstood as “Control”.

If you like I can explain what exactly happens.
Best you tell me what headphones models you use so I can explain it with your headphones as an example.

11 (edited by Johannes AU 2022-01-25 16:33:36)

Re: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

KaiS wrote:
Johannes AU wrote:

Power is not equals to control, and power is nothing without control.  RME offers power with best control smile

“Control” (on a power amp) is a myth and does not exist.

There is output impedance, a technical reality, and it’s frequency response changing effect might be misunderstood as “Control”.

If you like I can explain what exactly happens.
Best you tell me what headphones models you use so I can explain it with your headphones as an example.


KaiS, I understand that at audio signal, a lot of variables with impedance changing at different frequencies, not just simple ohms law, yes, it is not about control, but I do not know how to explain it in words.....

It would be nice if I can learn more, my headphone is Austrian Audio Hi-X55, Sensitivity: 118dBspl/V, impedance: 25 Ω, Input Power: 150 mW. Another one is Sennheiser PXC-550II, an ANC bluetooth headphone but can connect with 3.5mm wired, 110dB spl (passive 1kHz/1Vrms) impedance active mode: 490 ohms, passive mode (when battery flat): 48 ohms

it comes with 3.5mm jack, I can enjoy it nicely at the RME IEM output. At low power 6.3, it is (can be) louder but not sounds better.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

12 (edited by Johannes AU 2022-01-25 11:33:28)

Re: Guidance requested: Use of external headphone amp w/ ADI-2 DAC FS

Johannes AU wrote:

Power is not equals to control, and power is nothing without control.  RME offers power with best control smile

I did listening test a few Dac with built in amp, maufactured in the north of Hongkong, twin ESS 9038pro chips, powerful amp, looks very high end at specification and S/N figures, with so-called balanced output, but sounds aweful, a good example of "without control" or lack of musical culture which results in a bad tuning .....

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen