1 (edited by sylvainmoreau 2022-02-06 11:23:23)

Topic: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

Hi,

I recently installed 5.1 in my studio. It's easy to set output with pro softwares (I'm using nuendo)
But with foobar or VLC.. i'm struggling to find how and don't even if that is possible anyway ?
all outputs I can select always appears by stereo.

Because from what I understand these softwares are looking all for a 5.1 device that you enter in one single selection box. There's no way to have all l/c/r/lfe/ls/rs set manually with asio drivers.

Any idea on how to set this ?
thx.

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

You have to setup enough WDM devices in driver settings ie six for 5.1

In windows sound settings(access through old windows control panel) select loudspeaker (device name her ex. UCX) select configuration choose between quadraphonic/5.1/7.1, whats your need

Fire up VLC with some surround content

In TMfx you will see that your usual 2ch software playback is now correctly split into the channel count matching your played content, and can be routed further to your outputs. This worked for me. Mind though, you wont have delay controls or any of that other stuff. Channel info from playback only.

There are alot of stuff about this on the forum. I can only say good luck to anybody who tries this. Or like someone said: If you want surround get an atmos reciever.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

If I remember correctly the recommendation from RME manual is to set the device into WDM multi channel mode.
Like e.g. here, page 17-19
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ufxplus_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ufxplus_e.pdf

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

very interesting links thank you !

5 (edited by audafreak 2022-02-07 09:04:58)

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

I use UCXII for multichannel playback from Foobar for audio and Jriver for video, both via ASIO output, 5.1 and 7.1 mixed down to 4.0 in Totalmix to Neumann monitors (KH750 DSP, KH80 DSP).

I have not much time now to explain it more so only short comments:

I would not recommend using WDM device with RME, sound seem a bit muddy comparing ASIO (maybe some processing inside WDM mch) and the biggest problem is RME device driver resets/recreates device and at least each OS boot you have to redefine WDM output in Windows Sound as MCH because default it is always stereo only. Annoying. So ASIO is the only stable way. At least for me.

You have to create new ASIO device in Foobar with Channel Mapping for 7.1 and play to this device. Something similar in Jriver.

When mixing in TM not all channels have the same level, find it on the net (Dolby recommendations) or maybe I will write it later. Also LFe phase can be sometime reversed in some bad masters. Not common but happens.
Back channels can be easily mixed to surround (7.1 to 5.1) that it really almost looks like 7.1.

Delay can be set easily in FB in Channel mixer) in ms, in Jriver via setting distance, if you use monitors with DSP you have to count also with their latency.

Create Fader Group for HW output channels in TM to be able to control output volume if you need it. Set input playback channels basically to -6dB to avoid clipping if you will downmix in TM.
I have also special Mute group for LFe, sometimes LFe frequencies are in both Front and LFe channels.

You can set different separate setups for input 5.1,4.0 and different 7.1 because those have mostly different order of surround/back channels.
Maybe something else I can't remember now.

ADI-2 DAC, Digiface USB, Fireface UCXII, ARC USB, Neumann MA1 aligned monitors

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

Audafreak: Can u point me in a direction about this. Some links perhaps? :"You have to create new ASIO device in Foobar with Channel Mapping for 7.1 and play to this device. Something similar in Jriver".

esp. the JRiver part

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

@audafreak: maybe a screenshot of your settings helps, place it to cloud, get the URL there, link it to here. Thanks.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

audafreak wrote:

I use UCXII for multichannel playback from Foobar for audio and Jriver for video, both via ASIO output, 5.1 and 7.1 mixed down to 4.0 in Totalmix to Neumann monitors (KH750 DSP, KH80 DSP)

we'r all interested big_smile !

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

Happy_amateur wrote:

Audafreak: Can u point me in a direction about this. Some links perhaps? :"You have to create new ASIO device in Foobar with Channel Mapping for 7.1 and play to this device. Something similar in Jriver".
esp. the JRiver part

Foobar Preferences, Playback, Output, ASIO, Custom Channel Mapping - Add new, Name "ASIO Fireface USB - UCX2", driver ASIO Fireface USB
Analog 1-8 = Left, Right, Center, Lfe, Side Left, Side Right, Surround Left, Surround Right.
There is problem with editing sometimes(wrote about it in another thread), so only add new and save.
Playback, DSP Manager, add some resampler and define target SR 192 for high SR, add Channel Mixer, set delays only, no mixing.
Tools, SACD plugin, Output PCM, Sample rate 88200 kHz, preferable area None.
DVD Audio plugin - preferable area None.

Now you should be able to playback multichannel DVD-A and SACD.

I see Jriver does not have explicit channel mapping, it assigns channels automatically in order as mentioned above in foobar. You have only  possibility to switch C and LFE in audio device settings. A bit primitive...
In DSP Studio settings  set channels 7.1 (or 5.1), I have no upmix or downmix (I do it in TM), but you can try it in Jriver.
Sample rates higher than 192 set to 192/176kHz.
Check Output format on.
In Room (check it on) you can set distance (delay) for each channel.

Now you should be able to playback multichannel DVD-V, MKV, bluray.

Video testfiles can be found here https://thedigitaltheater.com/tools/ . Also lot of different Dolby, DTS, IMAX trailers.

Where to store screenshots? Without any account only.

ADI-2 DAC, Digiface USB, Fireface UCXII, ARC USB, Neumann MA1 aligned monitors

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

Channel mapping in Jriver can be done, I forgot it, but it is very hidden in DSP Studio - Parametric Equalizer, Add, Channel order, also Delay in ms and Channel Mixing. as part of PE... stupid.

If you want to downmix then here is a table how to. https://www.audiokinetic.com/library/ed … mix_tables

ADI-2 DAC, Digiface USB, Fireface UCXII, ARC USB, Neumann MA1 aligned monitors

11 (edited by sylvainmoreau 2022-02-07 13:34:32)

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

thx for all this.
dam i'm stuck at "Foobar Preferences, Playback, Output, ASIO" as i don't see anywhere to input "asio" I can only select my device outputs in the DEVICE dropdown menu
alternatives I see are
Primary Sound Driver (exclusive or not)
Digital Audio display port (exclusive or not)
and when i select those I don't see an option to manually create outputs.
Do you have a special plugin for foobar ?
https://www.sylvainmoreau.com/forumPix/foobar-capt01.png

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

Yes ASIO plugin
https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio

ADI-2 DAC, Digiface USB, Fireface UCXII, ARC USB, Neumann MA1 aligned monitors

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

audafreak: Thnx alot man! This will be very helpful smile

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

Small comment about mixing, it is not in downmix table.
When playing the LFE channel should be
- Dolby  the same level like FL/FR
- DTS level should be +10dB comparing FL/FR

When mixing C/Lfe to FL/FR I would recommend set input fader FL/FR to -6dB as reference level, C -9dB, Lfe -6/+4db both to FL/FR, all surrounds -9db and direct then to correct outputs you are using.
Output faders should have the same value in fader group.

If you use ARC USB, then you can switch different setups, enable/disable LFE routing via muting LFE input.

The only disadvantage comparing home theatre units is you cannot decode Dolby Digital from your TV, but PC harddisk playback of anything including Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD MA is possible. Everything is decoded in SW players to multichannel PCM output.

Multichannel music on DVD, SACD, FLAC is originally mixed often in 4.0, 5.0, 5.1. I have never seen anything else like 7.1, only on bluray mostly from 2L.
Of course Atmos, Auro and similar is not possible, buy preprocessor :-)

ADI-2 DAC, Digiface USB, Fireface UCXII, ARC USB, Neumann MA1 aligned monitors

15 (edited by sylvainmoreau 2022-02-10 09:28:51)

Re: How to play 5.1 from foobar or other players ?

foobar works well for me now thank you. detects 5.1 and stereo and goes to my speakers.
This is my configuration once I installed the plugin you gave above and restarted computer (I think)
Next I'll look at VLC to get the 5.1 movies playing there.
---EDIT
after a bit of work I realize that now nuendo does not coexist well with foobar sharing the asio driver tongue

so .. that's that to keep in mind.

https://www.sylvainmoreau.com/forumPix/foobar%20multiout%20setting.png