Topic: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Hey guys,
I know this topic was discussed before but I‘m not able to find the older entries. Sorry for double-posting.
Here‘s the issue: I‘m using a Fireface UFX, a UCX and a Babyface Pro on a Windows 10 system (latest version). All three interfaces are synced and running fine in parallel however sometimes when I start Cubase, I don‘t get any sound out of it (no output is visible in Total Mix). I do however see audio activity within Cubase. Sometimes it helps to reset the audio system (although not always) within Cubase and if that doesn‘t work, changing the latency fixes it.
There‘s no indication when the problem occurs. It can run fine for days and then for the next 10 times I start Cubase, the audio is broken. And it NEVER happens when I‘m just using the UFX - I always have to have at least a second interface connected.
I‘ve tested different USB connections on my system - no changes. I‘ve also tested this in Cubase 10, 11 and now the new 12 - same issue. I don‘t get any connection errors in the RME settings tool and and I also don‘t see anything weird in Latency Mon.
I‘m running out of ideas :-)
Thanks in advance for your help!

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Hello!

No experience with later Cubase(I 've stopped at ver5),
but does enabling the "MMCSS for ASIO" option ("About" Tab of the Driver's Settings) help, at all?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Are the devices physically synced to each other in some way?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Yes, they are synced via Word Clock (UFX / UCX) and ADAT (Babyface).
Regarding the MMCSS option: I‘ve tried that some time ago but it didn‘t seem to make a difference.

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Update on this one: this often happens when I use external instruments in Cubase. As soon as I remove some of the external instruments (unload them like a VSTi), the sound comes back. When I add them again - the sound is gone.

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Another update on the external instruments in Cubase: the sound only goes away if the external instrument is connected to interface 2 or 3 - if the main interface is used then everything is fine.

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

I just got a completely new system running Windows 11 and the problem is still there. Is there some kind of log functionality that could provide some info about what goes wrong with the RME ASIO driver when something goes wrong?

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Hi, ColdSteel !

I don't know the answer to your question about log functionality; apart from the CRC Error checking, that is.
But, do you have your system optimized for audio work?

You could try these:
- Disable C-states in the Bios
- Highest perfomance settings(Windows)
- Optimize for Background tasks(Windows)
- Disable unnecessary windows services

In Cubase, you can try these:
- Disable Multi-processing
- Try ASIO Guard On/Off

Also, can you, please, clarify what you mean by "external instrument, unloaded like VSTi, connected to interface 2 or 3" ?
Do you mean external keyboard connected via MIDI?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

9 (edited by ramses 2022-07-03 11:33:05)

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Hi Klaus,

ColdSteel wrote:

Sometimes it helps to reset the audio system (although not always) within Cubase and if that doesn‘t work, changing the latency fixes it.

how do you reset the audio system in cubase? Studio -> Studio Settings -> Audiosystem -> RESET (DE: zurücksetzen) ?

What do you mean by changing the latency ? Changing the ASIO buffersize ? Between what values ?
BTW .. changing the ASIO buffersize also causes something like a reset of ASIO.

Which sample rates and ASIO buffersizes do you use in your project ?
Do you have less or even no problems if you use a higher or maximum ASIO buffersize ?

Does freezing of Cubase tracks with external instruments cure the issue?

ColdSteel wrote:

And it NEVER happens when I‘m just using the UFX

ColdSteel wrote:

This often happens when I use external instruments in Cubase. As soon as I remove some of the external instruments (unload them like a VSTi), the sound comes back. When I add them again - the sound is gone.

Do you play the external instruments through MIDI keyboard or do you have a MIDI track in cubase, playback through external instrument and record it through an analog port?

ColdSteel wrote:

Another update on the external instruments in Cubase: the sound only goes away if the external instrument is connected to interface 2 or 3 - if the main interface is used then everything is fine.

Which sound goes away? Only the sound of the External Effect? Or the whole sound in the project in regards to monitoring / playback ?

Please detail the setup of the External Effects in Cubase and the HW connections (audio, midi) in each of these different use cases when it works and when it doesn't work.

How is it if you use UCX and BBF Pro alone or in combination (disconnect UFX from setup). This would at least exclude any potential driver issue with the UCX and BBF Pro, but would leave the question, why three interfaces together do not work.

Do you make sure, that all three interfaces are not only clock synched but also use the same ASIO buffersize which is at least needed that you get no offset of recorded audio tracks in the DAW due to different buffer sizes.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

MetalHeadKeys wrote:

Hi, ColdSteel !

I don't know the answer to your question about log functionality; apart from the CRC Error checking, that is.
But, do you have your system optimized for audio work?

You could try these:
- Disable C-states in the Bios
- Highest perfomance settings(Windows)
- Optimize for Background tasks(Windows)
- Disable unnecessary windows services

In Cubase, you can try these:
- Disable Multi-processing
- Try ASIO Guard On/Off

Also, can you, please, clarify what you mean by "external instrument, unloaded like VSTi, connected to interface 2 or 3" ?
Do you mean external keyboard connected via MIDI?

Hey MetalHeadKeys,
thanks for your help. Yes, my systems are optimized for audio and work absolutely fine - only in this specific situation they refuse to do their job.
"External Instruments" is a function in Cubase that allows you to specifiy MIDI and Audio I/Os so that you can address your hardware synthesizers like plug-in. It's a function that nearly every DAW has nowadays and that makes the management of larger hardware setups a lot easier.

11 (edited by ColdSteel 2022-07-03 14:32:45)

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

ramses wrote:

Hi Klaus,

Hey ramses,
Thanks a lot for your support!

ramses wrote:

how do you reset the audio system in cubase? Studio -> Studio Settings -> Audiosystem -> RESET (DE: zurücksetzen) ?

What do you mean by changing the latency ? Changing the ASIO buffersize ? Between what values ?
BTW .. changing the ASIO buffersize also causes something like a reset of ASIO.

Yes, I reset the audio system exactly as your described or by changing the ASIO buffersize from 256samples to 512 and back again.

ramses wrote:

Which sample rates and ASIO buffersizes do you use in your project ?
Do you have less or even no problems if you use a higher or maximum ASIO buffersize ?.

My ASIO buffersize is 256 samples but it doesn't matter which buffersize I use.

ramses wrote:

Does freezing of Cubase tracks with external instruments cure the issue?

Nope, sorry.

ramses wrote:

Do you play the external instruments through MIDI keyboard or do you have a MIDI track in cubase, playback through external instrument and record it through an analog port?

Both.

ramses wrote:

Which sound goes away? Only the sound of the External Effect? Or the whole sound in the project in regards to monitoring / playback ?

The sound of the whole project. Cubase is completely silent from that moment on. You can still see all the signal levels so visually everything works as it should - there's just no sound. Also, when checking Total Mix there's no sound coming from Cubase to Total Mix. Other applications, for example playing some music in the background via Spotify, is uneffected by that.

ramses wrote:

Please detail the setup of the External Effects in Cubase and the HW connections (audio, midi) in each of these different use cases when it works and when it doesn't work.

Well, it's just a combination of different MIDI and audio I/Os. Nothing changes here. When I load an external Instrument that has it's audio connected to the UFX, it will always work flawlessly. When I load an external Instrument that is audiowise connected to the UCX or Babyface it breaks the whole audio as describes above with a change of maybe 75%. By resetting the ASIO driver several times, I can get the audio back and then this external instrument will also work just fine.

ramses wrote:

How is it if you use UCX and BBF Pro alone or in combination (disconnect UFX from setup). This would at least exclude any potential driver issue with the UCX and BBF Pro, but would leave the question, why three interfaces together do not work..

I could give that a try but this will be a bigger change in the setup. I doubt that there's anything wrong with the UCX / Babyface because they work just fine in other situations on their own.

ramses wrote:

Do you make sure, that all three interfaces are not only clock synched but also use the same ASIO buffersize which is at least needed that you get no offset of recorded audio tracks in the DAW due to different buffer sizes.

Absolutely. They're always using the same buffersize and are in sync.

12 (edited by ramses 2022-07-03 15:57:17)

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

ColdSteel wrote:
ramses wrote:

Please detail the setup of the External Effects in Cubase and the HW connections (audio, midi) in each of these different use cases when it works and when it doesn't work.

Well, it's just a combination of different MIDI and audio I/Os. Nothing changes here. When I load an external Instrument that has it's audio connected to the UFX, it will always work flawlessly. When I load an external Instrument that is audiowise connected to the UCX or Babyface it breaks the whole audio as describes above with a change of maybe 75%. By resetting the ASIO driver several times, I can get the audio back and then this external instrument will also work just fine.

What happens if you simply record from analog inputs of the UCX or BBF Pro? Does this alone also create issues?

ColdSteel wrote:
ramses wrote:

How is it if you use UCX and BBF Pro alone or in combination (disconnect UFX from setup). This would at least exclude any potential driver issue with the UCX and BBF Pro, but would leave the question, why three interfaces together do not work..

I could give that a try but this will be a bigger change in the setup. I doubt that there's anything wrong with the UCX / Babyface because they work just fine in other situations on their own.

By this I want to exclude any side effect from having a 2nd or 3rd interface in the setup to check
- whether UCX and BBF Pro alone would work flawlessly with external instruments
- whether even UCX and BBF Pro in combination work flawlessly

It could also be a Cubase related problem...

1. create a brand new project in this setup with three interfaces, check whether only one external instrument alone - using the same analog ports of the UCX - triggers the issue.

2. Cross check with another DAW which also supports external instruments in a similar way to see, to check whether the errror occurrs also there.

I hope this can narrow down to the key issue.... As I mentioned, could also be a Cubase specific problem.
Especially where you see audio signals arriving in the DAW if I understood correctly, but nothing arrives at TotalMix.
And a reset issued in the DAW can cure the problem, appears to me as if Cubase becomes stuck and might block all audio ports. You even tell, that all other audio works, so the recording interfaces are not completely stuck, this all seems only related to the application cubase having loaded the ASIO driver.

What you could also check, if Cubase with the loaded ASIO driver is stuck, whether another program using ASIO (like MusicBee or foobar) can still playback audio through ASIO. ASIO is multiclient, so this should work.
Also DIGIcheck uses ASIO, do you see something in DIGIcheck or does this hang along with ASIO ?

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

What happens if you simply record from analog inputs of the UCX or BBF Pro? Does this alone also create issues?

Yes. As soon as the inputs from the other interfaces are "involved", chances are that the sound dies.

By this I want to exclude any side effect from having a 2nd or 3rd interface in the setup to check
- whether UCX and BBF Pro alone would work flawlessly with external instruments
- whether even UCX and BBF Pro in combination work flawlessly

I did a VERY quick and VERY rough test with only the UCX and BBF Pro and that seemed to work fine. But I could be wrong on that.

It could also be a Cubase related problem...

1. create a brand new project in this setup with three interfaces, check whether only one external instrument alone - using the same analog ports of the UCX - triggers the issue.

2. Cross check with another DAW which also supports external instruments in a similar way to see, to check whether the errror occurrs also there.

I hope this can narrow down to the key issue.... As I mentioned, could also be a Cubase specific problem.

Yes, it could be a Cubase related problem and this is the program that definitely causes the most issues (yes, even in a new project, the single usage of the input of the UCX/BBF can kill the sound by just adding an audio track and connecting it to one of the inputs of the interfaces). However I also saw problems in NI Kontakt for example when the outputs of the UCX/BBF were involved. The chances here to get no sound are definitely much lower.
When running DigiCheck in parallel, I can still see the audio input going into the interfaces but no output coming from Cubase.
It's a very weird issue and it happens on at least two completely different PCs with different Windows versions and also across different software versions.

14 (edited by ramses 2022-07-03 16:57:17)

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Ok, so could you check another DAW product under the assumption this might be Cubase/DAW related.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

15 (edited by MetalHeadKeys 2022-07-04 19:04:01)

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

+1 !
And I would suggest Reaper, which is free to download and has unlimited functionality(evaluation period 2months).
Here's a video on how to set up your MIDI and audio tracks:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ1iHnkqiXA

ColdSteel wrote:

Hey MetalHeadKeys,
thanks for your help. Yes, my systems are optimized for audio and work absolutely fine - only in this specific situation they refuse to do their job.
"External Instruments" is a function in Cubase that allows you to specifiy MIDI and Audio I/Os so that you can address your hardware synthesizers like plug-in. It's a function that nearly every DAW has nowadays and that makes the management of larger hardware setups a lot easier.

You 're welcome!
And I got it about external intruments! I 've been spoiled by Reaper, where every track can be whatever, depending on its Input.
If you watch the video I linked, you 'll understand!

Another test you could try is to change your MIDI connections.
As I don't know your actual setup, I guess that you have a MIDI keyboard connected to the UFX's MIDI Input, and using MIDI Outs from all 3 interfaces to external gear.
What happens if you use the UCX's or BF's MIDI Input, instead?

RME Gear: Digiface USB, HDSP 9632

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Sorry about the delay but I needed to finish some projects. I've tested Bitwig Studio and FL Studio and in both DAWs so far everything seems to work fine. It seems to be a Cubase-only issue so I looked through the Steinberg forum and didn't find any issue similar to this one. Plus I believe that Steinberg ASIO integration is top-notch because, well, they invented it.
Running out of ideas here :-)

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

It still may be a Cubase problem. I suspect there are very few if any trying to do what you are doing in Cubase which is probably why there are no other reports. This rings true especially if it works fine in other DAWs. Steinberg may have invented ASIO but they still make mistakes. I use Cubase and there are plenty of bugs. I only use the one interface though which obviously works fine.

Babyface Pro Fs, Behringer ADA8200, win 10/11 PCs, Cubase/Wavelab, Adam A7X monitors.

18 (edited by ramses 2022-07-13 11:12:55)

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Exactly, should be clear/evident that this is a Steinberg related issue, if it works in other DAWs wink Also the best can do "mistakes" or have issues in the code in a setup, that no developer or test user will have as a standard test case.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

True. I'll post the same question in the Steinberg forum and see what comes up. Will keep you posted - hopefully a solution can be found.

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Hey guys,
small update on this topic:
no solution yet BUT I think I found a reliable way to trigger the same issue also in Studio One. It takes a little bit more effort than doing it in Cubase but it seens that we're back at the beginning - not a Cubase only issue.

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Check (via TotalMix of all connected interfaces) if the sound wrongly gets routed to another output that is not connected to your monitoring system when the sound drops out. Especially check the Software Playbacks vs. the Hardware Outputs.

Re: Sometimes no sound in Cubase with several interfaces connected

Hey Timur,
sorry about the late response. I've checked Total Mix and no, the sound isn't routed to another output - it's completely gone.