• Registered: 2022-03-17
  • Posts: 13

Topic: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Hello I just got a RME ADI-2 DAC FS and I kindly ask you experts for suggestions. I write from Italy, forgive me if I use google translator and I state that I understand very little about electronics. I have a stereo, non-integrated power amplifier with no volume control and would use the RME as a preamp using its volume. The amplifier is in class D based on Hypex Ncore NC252MP amplifier module, fully balanced and with XLR inputs, so I would exit the RME in balanced XLR and enter the amplifier in balanced XLR. The characteristics I know of the amplifier are the following:
THD + N: 0.0015%
SNR: 121dB
Output noise: 30µV
Output Impedance: 1.5mΩ
Frequency Response: 10Hz - 50kHz
Input sensitivity: Maximum power at 1.66V RMS (2x0.83V RMS).
I was told that it is an easy amp to drive with DAC with volume control, but on a test done with a Chinese SMSL AO200 DAC I was not at all satisfied at low volume, they lacked a lot of dynamics and with inconsistent bass while turning up the volume of the DAC gave off all the quality of the power amp, this prompted me to buy the RME as I have read wonderful things and I know that it is configurable to make the most of the power amp. What I really don't know is how to do it, although I have read the manual and read many posts here in your forum. Some say attenuators ... who earns ... who automatic output level to be managed by the RME ... I am very confused, if someone kindly wants to help me ...
I have a room of 20 square meters and fairly efficient speakers, 91db, but I live in a condominium and I would like to have a good quality from the amplifier, especially at low volume, the one I will use the most.
A thousand thanks! Danilo

2 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-03-17 14:12:46)

  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Read KaiS's recommendation here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen
  • KaiS
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  • Registered: 2020-02-05
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Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

If you live in a condominio and therefore have to listen very quietly, get some  passive attenuators.

Meanwhile you still can use ADI-2 DAC with “Auto Reference Level” switched “On”.
This is factory default, you see the Volume displayed in “dBr” instead of plain “dB”.

As soon as you got the passive attenuators, for setup follow the link as Johannes mentioned, Case 2 is for you:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721
Attenuators:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p120442

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2022-03-17
  • Posts: 13

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Thanks Johannes, unfortunately your link does not open it to me ...
Could you put it correct?
Thank you!

Johannes AU wrote:

Read KaiS's recommendation here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

  • Registered: 2022-03-17
  • Posts: 13

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Thank you very much, as soon as I have Johannes's working link I will follow his guide and your instructions. So at low volume with the attenuators I will have more dynamics than the factory setting "auto reference level" of the RME?

KaiS wrote:

If you live in a condominio and therefore have to listen very quietly, get some  passive attenuators.

Meanwhile you still can use ADI-2 DAC with “Auto Reference Level” switched “On”.
This is factory default, you see the Volume displayed in “dBr” instead of plain “dB”.

As soon as you got the passive attenuators, for setup follow the link as Johannes mentioned, Case 2 is for you:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721
Attenuators:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p120442

6 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-03-17 14:18:24)

  • KaiS
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Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Danilo wrote:

Thank you very much, as soon as I have Johannes's working link I will follow his guide and your instructions. So at low volume with the attenuators I will have more dynamics than the factory setting "auto reference level" of the RME?

KaiS wrote:

If you live in a condominio and therefore have to listen very quietly, get some  passive attenuators.

Meanwhile you still can use ADI-2 DAC with “Auto Reference Level” switched “On”.
This is factory default, you see the Volume displayed in “dBr” instead of plain “dB”.

As soon as you got the passive attenuators, for setup follow the link as Johannes mentioned, Case 2 is for you:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721
Attenuators:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p120442

You would combine both, “Auto Reference Level” + Passive Attenuators, for best result.
I did describe it in my linked posting.

What is your typical listening ADI-2 DAC’s Volume dBr value at the moment?

KaiS's Website

  • From: Hongkong
  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Danilo wrote:

Thanks Johannes, unfortunately your link does not open it to me ...
Could you put it correct?
Thank you!

Johannes AU wrote:

Read KaiS's recommendation here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

Sorry, Edited.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen
  • Registered: 2022-03-17
  • Posts: 13

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

KaiS wrote:
Danilo wrote:

Thank you very much, as soon as I have Johannes's working link I will follow his guide and your instructions. So at low volume with the attenuators I will have more dynamics than the factory setting "auto reference level" of the RME?

KaiS wrote:

If you live in a condominio and therefore have to listen very quietly, get some  passive attenuators.

Meanwhile you still can use ADI-2 DAC with “Auto Reference Level” switched “On”.
This is factory default, you see the Volume displayed in “dBr” instead of plain “dB”.

As soon as you got the passive attenuators, for setup follow the link as Johannes mentioned, Case 2 is for you:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721
Attenuators:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 42#p120442

You would combine both, “Auto Reference Level” + Passive Attenuators, for best result.
I did describe it in my linked posting.

What is your typical listening ADI-2 DAC’s Volume dBr value at the moment?

Hi, the problem is only in the evening after 10pm, I don't want to bother the neighbors, I'm trying to keep the volume low as if it were evening, I'm at -55Ddbr and up it says -5dbu auto. If I didn't put the attenuators on, is there any gain / configuration to be made, by removing the auto function and adjusting some values manually?
I have seen that dynamics and listening already work well with loudness, but I would like to be sure to use all the potential of the RME to the fullest. I'm not very familiar with the menu and configurations, the DAC arrived this morning. Thanks a lot, KaiS!

9 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-03-17 20:54:59)

  • KaiS
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  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,157

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Danilo wrote:
KaiS wrote:
Danilo wrote:

Thank you very much, as soon as I have Johannes's working link I will follow his guide and your instructions. So at low volume with the attenuators I will have more dynamics than the factory setting "auto reference level" of the RME?

You would combine both, “Auto Reference Level” + Passive Attenuators, for best result.
I did describe it in my linked posting.

What is your typical listening ADI-2 DAC’s Volume dBr value at the moment?

Hi, the problem is only in the evening after 10pm, I don't want to bother the neighbors, I'm trying to keep the volume low as if it were evening, I'm at -55Ddbr and up it says -5dbu auto. If I didn't put the attenuators on, is there any gain / configuration to be made, by removing the auto function and adjusting some values manually?
I have seen that dynamics and listening already work well with loudness, but I would like to be sure to use all the potential of the RME to the fullest. I'm not very familiar with the menu and configurations, the DAC arrived this morning. Thanks a lot, KaiS!

You can‘t do better than “Auto Reference Level”.
It already sticks on the lowest reference level.

With a -20 or even -30 dB passive attenuator (buy switchable ones) you could shift the Volume into Auto Reference Level‘s working range, improving S/N ratio.

But - ADI-2 is so good, I guess you will hardly notice an audible difference.

The golden rule:
If you don’t hear noise you don’t have a noise problem.

KaiS's Website

10 Reply by Danilo (edited by Danilo 2022-03-17 21:32:18)

  • Registered: 2022-03-17
  • Posts: 13

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

KaiS wrote:
Danilo wrote:
KaiS wrote:

You would combine both, “Auto Reference Level” + Passive Attenuators, for best result.
I did describe it in my linked posting.

What is your typical listening ADI-2 DAC’s Volume dBr value at the moment?

Hi, the problem is only in the evening after 10pm, I don't want to bother the neighbors, I'm trying to keep the volume low as if it were evening, I'm at -55Ddbr and up it says -5dbu auto. If I didn't put the attenuators on, is there any gain / configuration to be made, by removing the auto function and adjusting some values manually?
I have seen that dynamics and listening already work well with loudness, but I would like to be sure to use all the potential of the RME to the fullest. I'm not very familiar with the menu and configurations, the DAC arrived this morning. Thanks a lot, KaiS!

You can‘t do better than “Auto Reference Level”.
It already sticks on the lowest reference level.

With a -20 or even -30 dB passive attenuator (buy switchable ones) you could shift the Volume into Auto Reference Level‘s working range, improving S/N ratio.

But - ADI-2 is so good, I guess you will hardly notice an audible difference.

The golden rule:
If you don’t hear noise you don’t have a noise problem.

No noise and great sound. I just wanted to understand if I am making the most of the amplifier even at low volume level using the “Auto Reference Level”, or the dac should be set in another way, perhaps adding the gain. But if you tell me that set up like this the DAC is already doing that job ... then that's fine. Thanks for everything.

  • From: Switzerland, Zürich
  • Registered: 2013-02-20
  • Posts: 191

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Hi

I guees your problem can just be solved by turning on Loudness function.
If you hear with lo volume, the sound is thin. RME ADI2Pro has a Loudness Function to correct this. Actually it is a proble of the ears not a problem of amp or DAC.

Peter

  • Registered: 2022-03-17
  • Posts: 13

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Thank you, Peter

pschelbert wrote:

Hi

I guees your problem can just be solved by turning on Loudness function.
If you hear with lo volume, the sound is thin. RME ADI2Pro has a Loudness Function to correct this. Actually it is a proble of the ears not a problem of amp or DAC.

Peter

13 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2022-03-19 22:29:37)

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
  • Posts: 1,462

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

+1 for Dynamic Loudness!!

Danilo, Late Night/Low Volume listening is PRECISELY the use case that Dynamic Loudness was intended for.

*Edit:   Dynamic Loudness is based in the Science of the Human Auditory System.  Almost 90years ago, Two (2) Scientists named Fletcher, and Munson examined the Human Ear's seeming loss of acuity at low levels.   The result of their studies produced the "Fletcher-Munson Loudness Contours" upon which your new RME's "Dynamic Loudness" function is based upon! 

Why does our hearing lose acuity/sensitivity at low levels?   Most likely it's an adaptive mechanism of the Human Species so that our own Heartbeat isn't "Ear Shattering", and the sound of Bloodflow in our Brains doesn't prevent us from ever sleeping again. 

I will heartily recommend the use of Dynamic Loudness, and suggest that you see Pg.14 of your User Manual for complete details so you can begin using it today! 

Best,

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2022-03-17
  • Posts: 13

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Very interesting, thank you very much!

Curt962 wrote:

+1 for Dynamic Loudness!!

Danilo, Late Night/Low Volume listening is PRECISELY the use case that Dynamic Loudness was intended for.

*Edit:   Dynamic Loudness is based in the Science of the Human Auditory System.  Almost 90years ago, Two (2) Scientists named Fletcher, and Munson examined the Human Ear's seeming loss of acuity at low levels.   The result of their studies produced the "Fletcher-Munson Loudness Contours" upon which your new RME's "Dynamic Loudness" function is based upon! 

Why does our hearing lose acuity/sensitivity at low levels?   Most likely it's an adaptive mechanism of the Human Species so that our own Heartbeat isn't "Ear Shattering", and the sound of Bloodflow in our Brains doesn't prevent us from ever sleeping again. 

I will heartily recommend the use of Dynamic Loudness, and suggest that you see Pg.14 of your User Manual for complete details so you can begin using it today! 

Best,

Curt

  • KaiS
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Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Danilo wrote:

Very interesting, thank you very much!

Curt962 wrote:

+1 for Dynamic Loudness!!

Danilo, Late Night/Low Volume listening is PRECISELY the use case that Dynamic Loudness was intended for.
...
I will heartily recommend the use of Dynamic Loudness, and suggest that you see Pg.14 of your User Manual for complete details so you can begin using it today!

Look here for a Loudness setup guide:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 72#p185172

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2022-03-17
  • Posts: 13

Re: RME ADI-2 DAC FS and Hypex NCore final power amplifier

Thank you!

KaiS wrote:
Danilo wrote:

Very interesting, thank you very much!

Curt962 wrote:

+1 for Dynamic Loudness!!

Danilo, Late Night/Low Volume listening is PRECISELY the use case that Dynamic Loudness was intended for.
...
I will heartily recommend the use of Dynamic Loudness, and suggest that you see Pg.14 of your User Manual for complete details so you can begin using it today!

Look here for a Loudness setup guide:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 72#p185172