1 (edited by fabriciom 2022-03-21 02:14:09)

Topic: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

Hello,

I've had this converter for about 10 years. Its really good and Im happy with it but Im seeing a future where I will have to move to a Mac studio and I no longer will be able to use the unit with my Raydat.

Anywho, my questions is if I would see much of a difference in sound quality between the ADI-8 and another converter with dual ES9038PRO chipset. I don't know what chipset the ADI-8 uses.

Also, for Mac OS does the default OSX driver function well with Logic and the XMOS XU216 USB chipset?

Thank you.

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

Your ADI will work with a digiface USB and with a babyface pro fs. If you need 8 channels at 96k it will need to be the digiface. The babyface will only do 4 adat channels at 96k, because of one adat port.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

3 (edited by fabriciom 2022-03-21 14:10:11)

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

vinark wrote:

Your ADI will work with a digiface USB and with a babyface pro fs. If you need 8 channels at 96k it will need to be the digiface. The babyface will only do 4 adat channels at 96k, because of one adat port.


Interface is more the 10 years old.

Im still wondering if its comparable to newer converters or its a day night thing.

4 (edited by vinark 2022-03-21 14:18:45)

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

I have both an ADI8AE (is same as ADI8DS) and a Babyface pro fs. It is absolutely not night and day.
I would not be able to guess which one I am listening to in a blind test.
But if you get a babyface pro fs, you have both at your disposal. $ channels of in/out with newer fs converters and 8 older ones.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

5 (edited by fabriciom 2022-03-21 15:22:48)

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

vinark wrote:

I have both an ADI8AE (is same as ADI8DS) and a Babyface pro fs. It is absolutely not night and day.
I would not be able to guess which one I am listening to in a blind test.
But if you get a babyface pro fs, you have both at your disposal. $ channels of in/out with newer fs converters and 8 older ones.


What converter chipset does the babyface use?

ES9038PRO is latest and greatest. We are talking about 6k€ converter.

6 (edited by vinark 2022-03-21 15:38:24)

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

The chip is 80$ a piece.
If you were happy for 10 years, where is this coming from?
On paper you will gain some less noise and distortion, but both are already inaudible with your (our) old devices.
The babyface uses a converter maybe one step below the ES. Our ADI's maybe 8 steps/generations. SO if 7 generations are inaudible I would guess 8 is not suddenly a magic difference.
You could say...you can record 10db quieter and get the same results if you record way to quiet. like -60db.
There were a lot of audible improvements in the first few generations of digital audio. Mainly to do with the filters.

What kind of answers do you expect, even MC says they sound the same. People who have spent big bucks will say they hear a difference.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

vinark wrote:

The chip is 80$ a piece.
If you were happy for 10 years, where is this coming from?
On paper you will gain some less noise and distortion, but both are already inaudible with your (our) old devices.
The babyface uses a converter maybe one step below the ES. Our ADI's maybe 8 steps/generations. SO if 7 generations are inaudible I would guess 8 is not suddenly a magic difference.
You could say...you can record 10db quieter and get the same results if you record way to quiet. like -60db.
There were a lot of audible improvements in the first few generations of digital audio. Mainly to do with the filters.

What kind of answers do you expect, even MC says they sound the same. People who have spent big bucks will say they hear a difference.

Because Im happy doesn't mean anyone wouldn't want a piece of equipment that would be better than whatever I have. In 10 years technology changes a lot.

Specially as the center piece of the work we do.

I ask because I could purchase a new AD-2 for about 1800€ or get a Chinese DAC with the said converters for about 1300€. The converter I speak of has been compared to others upwards of 6k.

Problem is I have no way of testing the unit locally.

What kind of answer do I except? I guess I was hoping that engineers that develop AD/DA converters know if this chipsets are a huge improvement over what I have.

Also, the USB chipset used by the DAC im looking at is the same that RME uses on their equipment. But RME has their own drivers. Which why I ask about the default OSX driver.

Any who I assumed they would know this stuff.

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

They have not been known to reply to these questions in the way you hope. Let alone comment on other manufacturers products.
And huge means the old one is at least mediocre compared to the new ones.  Ar best it is in the audiophile regions, like deeper soundstage to my ears, or silkier highs.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

vinark wrote:

They have not been known to reply to these questions in the way you hope. Let alone comment on other manufacturers products.
And huge means the old one is at least mediocre compared to the new ones.  Ar best it is in the audiophile regions, like deeper soundstage to my ears, or silkier highs.

Ill hope for the best then. big_smile

I didn't pay attention to this kind of stuff until a couple of years ago when I started messing around with DIY stuff.

I found a kit from a guy in Canada selling a DIY headphone amp.

Mind you I purchased a while back an SPL Phonitor which cost me almost 2k I believe.

Any who, found this kit and he did his measurements and sold it as a reference headphone amp.

I built the kit and was blow away at how much better it sounds (clear, crisp, detailed) over the SPL.

It does not have any of the functions the phonitor has but with the latest plugins like Realphonse or CanOpener you can simulate crossover WAY better than what the SPL does.

Moral of the story, I spent like 400€ building the kit which was even cheaper but I decided to build a custom case. And this thing blew the phonitor (a profesional piece of equipment) out of the water.


P.S. Want to buy an SPL Phonitor in black? big_smile

10

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

fabriciom wrote:

Also, the USB chipset used by the DAC im looking at is the same that RME uses on their equipment.

So what USB chipset are you talking about? XMOS? Then you can't be more wrong than that. We do USB ourselves in the FPGA, not with a 'specific chipset'.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

MC wrote:
fabriciom wrote:

Also, the USB chipset used by the DAC im looking at is the same that RME uses on their equipment.

So what USB chipset are you talking about? XMOS? Then you can't be more wrong than that. We do USB ourselves in the FPGA, not with a 'specific chipset'.

So your feedback as the representative of RME is that Im "wrong" and you are right.

Awesome.

I guess I got my questions answered indirectly. Will give that Chineses DAC a try.

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

If I would have known you were this rude, I would not have helped! You get a reply from the founder of RME, telling you it can't be the same USB chip since it is a custom design and you react like this?
Still hope you find what you are looking for!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

vinark wrote:

If I would have known you were this rude, I would not have helped! You get a reply from the founder of RME, telling you it can't be the same USB chip since it is a custom design and you react like this?
Still hope you find what you are looking for!

So I come to a forum asking information about chipsets and drivers.

I get an answer from the company that seems like I 'm arguing. "You are wrong and we are right". "You can't be more wrong then that"

And Im rude?

Insane.

14 (edited by vinark 2022-03-22 16:56:44)

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

fabriciom wrote:
vinark wrote:

If I would have known you were this rude, I would not have helped! You get a reply from the founder of RME, telling you it can't be the same USB chip since it is a custom design and you react like this?
Still hope you find what you are looking for!

So I come to a forum asking information about chipsets and drivers.

I get an answer from the company that seems like I 'm arguing. "You are wrong and we are right". "You can't be more wrong then that"

And Im rude?

Insane.

You are rude in that you are rude to the persons trying to help. You call it a company but I am just a helpfull RME user and MC a helpfull RME founder. He is answering to what he knows for sure, the USB chipset. He  and RME are not the designers of the converter chips. They build a product around it. Answering how much better a converter chip is is impossible. Except for the specs and those are clear, 10 year old very very good. Newer even better. Audible worth it???? Who knows. The product RME build (ADI-2 series) are brilliant, maybe the chinese too? Should RME diss the Chinese? Toot their own horn?  Say their new product is so much better (insert audiophile speak) then the product they build in the past?
If you would read alot on this forum, you will see that this is one of the most helpful and honest forums there is.
Never will you get the advice to go newer when there is no point, all bugs are fixed in days.
Hope this helps!

If you want permission to buy the Chinese version? You don't need permission. Choose with your heart/gut, there is no absolute choice. Only RME vs Chinese service.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

vinark wrote:
fabriciom wrote:
vinark wrote:

If I would have known you were this rude, I would not have helped! You get a reply from the founder of RME, telling you it can't be the same USB chip since it is a custom design and you react like this?
Still hope you find what you are looking for!

So I come to a forum asking information about chipsets and drivers.

I get an answer from the company that seems like I 'm arguing. "You are wrong and we are right". "You can't be more wrong then that"

And Im rude?

Insane.

You are rude in that you are rude to the persons trying to help. You call it a company but I am just a helpfull RME user and MC a helpfull RME founder. He is answering to what he knows for sure, the USB chipset. He  and RME are not the designers of the converter chips. They build a product around it. Answering how much better a converter chip is is impossible. Except for the specs and those are clear, 10 year old very very good. Newer even better. Audible worth it???? Who knows. The product RME build (ADI-2 series) are brilliant, maybe the chinese too? Should RME diss the Chinese? Toot their own horn?  Say their new product is so much better (insert audiophile speak) then the product they build in the past?
If you would read alot on this forum, you will see that this is one of the most helpful and honest forums there is.
Never will you get the advice to go newer when there is no point, all bugs are fixed in days.
Hope this helps!

If you want permission to buy the Chinese version? You don't need permission. Choose with your heart/gut, there is no absolute choice. Only RME vs Chinese service.

How exactly are you helping somebody by telling them they are "wrong"? That's not even an answer when you query for information. I didn't even know I was arguing to be right or wrong.

If you don't know something why not say that. Hey we haven't done anything with that chipset you are talking about. The end.

Yes I came looking for permission on spending my money.

This place is totally insane.

Im out of here!

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

You were wrong in thinking it is the same usb chipset. The same chipset that makes RME usb devices work so great, so valuable information, is it not? I could not give you that info, only MC, cause he knows.
Were is the arguing except from you, ok maybe not arguing but being sarcastic and later insulted.
Hope you will be happy with whatever you choose! (no sarcasm)

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

17

Re: ADI-8 DS (MK I) vs Dual ES9038PRO

And I fully stand to what I wrote. Everybody knowns that RME does all the relevant stuff (PCI, FireWire, USB) on its own, not using premade chip solutions -  a major difference to our competition. We advertise that since 25 years. Coming here and asking for XMOS compatibility of Mac OS is a first, and the wrong forum.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME