1 Topic by fransdielissen (edited by fransdielissen 2022-03-28 13:35:12)

  • Registered: 2022-03-28
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Topic: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Hello,

I'm new on this forum, but I have an important question.

This week I put a new SoTM sms 200 ultra neo in my system (with Roon as player).
When I play music a got a lot of distortion (and before the SoTM no distortion).
Especially in the higher tones.

I use a Nucleus+ with Roon on it, and the SoTM that goes with usb into the RME ADI-2 dac FS.
I use the RME ADI-2 dac FS also as preamp to my Focal trio 11 be's.

I see no clipping on the RME and also not in Roon.
What to do now? Is it a setting I must change in the ADI-2 dac?

Thanks in advance for help!

King regards,

Frans

2 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-03-28 13:38:48)

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Did you check the Focal input setting at its back panel?

And you can low down the volume of the Adi-2 Dac to see if it is better?

https://www.focal.com/sites/www.focal.f … _web_0.pdf

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Thanks for your quick response.

I have the Focals (still) set to +4dBu.
That's how it says in the manual, because I connected the monitors via a balanced line.

If I turn the volume down on the dac it gets a bit better.
But I also like to listen at concert level.
And before I used a streamer, that was easy too, and without distortion.

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Try -10dBu at the Focal, see if it is better or not. (you can put for eg. left to -10dBu and right unchange, switch the RME to Mono, compare the difference between left and right speakers)

By the way, what is the level showing at the RME?

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

When I'm listening, most of the time it is between -40 and -30.

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

fransdielissen wrote:

When I'm listening, most of the time it is between -40 and -30.

Then I suggest you set the Focal to  -10dBu. smile

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Thanks, I'm going to try that this evening.

8 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-03-29 18:36:29)

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

fransdielissen wrote:

I use a Nucleus+ with Roon on it, and the SoTM that goes with usb into the RME ADI-2 dac FS.
I use the RME ADI-2 dac FS also as preamp to my Focal trio 11 be's.

I don’t understand your setup, you are using 2 network players at the same time?

Would you please describe your chain more detailed, especially what interconnections you are using?


For testing you could additionally use headphones, to exclude any problem with the Focals.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2022-03-28
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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Johannes AU wrote:
fransdielissen wrote:

When I'm listening, most of the time it is between -40 and -30.

Then I suggest you set the Focal to  -10dBu. smile

I tried this, but the sound went to terrible.

  • Registered: 2022-03-28
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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

KaiS wrote:
fransdielissen wrote:

I use a Nucleus+ with Roon on it, and the SoTM that goes with usb into the RME ADI-2 dac FS.
I use the RME ADI-2 dac FS also as preamp to my Focal trio 11 be's.

I don’t understand your setup, you are using 2 network players at the same time?

Would you please describe your chain more detailed, especially what interconnections you are using?


For testing you could additionally use headphones, to exclude any problem with the Focals.

Hello KaiS,

I only use one network player, the SoTM.

My chain looks like this:
English Electric 8Switch > RJ/E Cat 7 Cable > Roon Nucleus+ with Roon server software.
English Electric 8Switch > RJ/E Cat 7 Cable > SOtM sMS-200ultra Neo Network Audio player > USB Cable > RME ADI-2 Dac FS (also used as a preamp) > XLR Cables (balanced) > Focal Trio 11 Be's.

That's all.

11 Reply by Happy_amateur (edited by Happy_amateur 2022-03-30 10:39:46)

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

ADI-2 Dac FS is designed to be connected to a Mac, PC or class compliant device(android/IOS) through USB. Suprised you get any sound at all. It takes a network signal from Roon and convert to USB audio output?

Check this out, compatibility list and a promise from SOtm to make your DAC compatible if you email them a USB id string. End of page: https://docs.sotm-audio.com/doku.php?id … hasu:start

No RME on that list.

Also there is a warning to only connect one usb HDD to sMS or otherwise sound may distort.

With a USB connection to ADI-2 dac, the SOtm looks like a prime suspect. No trial necessary. Do you know of anybody else who has achieved this?

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

12 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-03-30 10:45:28)

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

fransdielissen wrote:
Johannes AU wrote:
fransdielissen wrote:

When I'm listening, most of the time it is between -40 and -30.

Then I suggest you set the Focal to  -10dBu. smile

I tried this, but the sound went to terrible.


Hm.. then try as Happy_amateur said, use a Mac/PC to play some music to RME dac with USB interconnect, connect the RME dac with XLR to Focal, find the correct attenuation at the Focal fits you best (same as in audio quality),  listen with headphone from the RME dac as well to see if the sound is OK per KaiS recommendation.

Then figure out if there is anything wrong at the streamer(s) SOtm and or  Nucleus+.

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Happy_amateur wrote:

ADI-2 Dac FS is designed to be connected to a Mac, PC or class compliant device(android/IOS) through USB. Suprised you get any sound at all. It takes a network signal from Roon and convert to USB audio output?

Check this out, compatibility list and a promise from SOtm to make your DAC compatible if you email them a USB id string. End of page: https://docs.sotm-audio.com/doku.php?id … hasu:start

No RME on that list.

Also there is a warning to only connect one usb HDD to sMS or otherwise sound may distort.

With a USB connection to ADI-2 dac, the SOtm looks like a prime suspect. No trial necessary. Do you know of anybody else who has achieved this?


That list is Native DSD DAC, suppose RME can work on PCM?

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Johannes AU wrote:
Happy_amateur wrote:

ADI-2 Dac FS is designed to be connected to a Mac, PC or class compliant device(android/IOS) through USB. Suprised you get any sound at all. It takes a network signal from Roon and convert to USB audio output?

Check this out, compatibility list and a promise from SOtm to make your DAC compatible if you email them a USB id string. End of page: https://docs.sotm-audio.com/doku.php?id … hasu:start

No RME on that list.

Also there is a warning to only connect one usb HDD to sMS or otherwise sound may distort.

With a USB connection to ADI-2 dac, the SOtm looks like a prime suspect. No trial necessary. Do you know of anybody else who has achieved this?


That list is Native DSD DAC, suppose RME can work on PCM?

Saw this, but it points to an inconsistency and compatibility issues.

For the top dollar SOtm demands they could have put in a spdif out.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_
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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Like @fransdielissen says: there is no distortion before the sMS. + no clipping in roon or adi

Hard to work this on remote, but I suspect USB transmission is the problem. If its an attenuation problem you could just turn reflevel and volume down and you would maybe not be in the sweetspot of your monitors, but you would know if that is the cause.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

16 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-03-30 12:17:00)

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Happy_amateur wrote:

Like @fransdielissen says: there is no distortion before the sMS. + no clipping in roon or adi

Hard to work this on remote, but I suspect USB transmission is the problem. If its an attenuation problem you could just turn reflevel and volume down and you would maybe not be in the sweetspot of your monitors, but you would know if that is the cause.

Does the roon environment allow the playback of "local" wav files?
Then you could validate the transmission between Server/Player and ADI-2 Pro by using the RME Bittest.

Maybe you can place the Bittest files on the roon server or the device with the player for this purpose?

Then you could test audio in an end-to-end fashion between roon/player and ADI-2 Pro FS including transport over USB.

If this would work then you can validate the audio transmission up to the ADI-2 Pro using the Bittest.
Based on the test results you would work whether the problem is in front or behind the ADI-2 Pro.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

ramses wrote:
Happy_amateur wrote:

Like @fransdielissen says: there is no distortion before the sMS. + no clipping in roon or adi

Hard to work this on remote, but I suspect USB transmission is the problem. If its an attenuation problem you could just turn reflevel and volume down and you would maybe not be in the sweetspot of your monitors, but you would know if that is the cause.

Does the roon environment allow the playback of "local" wav files?
Then you could validate the transmission between Server/Player and ADI-2 Pro by using the RME Bittest.

Maybe you can place the Bittest files on the roon server or the device with the player for this purpose?

Then you could test audio in an end-to-end fashion between roon/player and ADI-2 Pro FS including transport over USB.

If this would work then you can validate the audio transmission up to the ADI-2 Pro using the Bittest.
Based on the test results you would work whether the problem is in front or behind the ADI-2 Pro.

Seems from his initial post the problems where introduced with the SOtm.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_
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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Just to make it more clear.
Before a streamer was turned on it was:

English Electric 8Switch > RJ/E Cat 7 Cable > Roon Nucleus+ with Roon server software > USB Cable > RME ADI-2 Dac FS (also used as a preamp) > XLR Cables (balanced) > Focal Trio 11 Be’s.
And then there was no distortion.

But Roon recommends a separate streamer, so I decided to use a SoTM for that.
And now I have distortion.

Update:
Last night I also updated the firmware of the dac just to be sure, and reset everything to factory settings.
It seems that there is already less distortion (in the higher tones).

Maybe I have to make certain settings in the adi-2 dac because I also use the dac as a preamp to the Focal's.
And on the Focal's I can't set any volume or anything related.

19 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2022-03-31 14:21:00)

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Frans,

My take on this so far is that everything is fine Until the SoTM is running.   This seems to isolate the problem to the SoTM yes? 

My suggestion to you is to to review the SoTM Set-Up Guide Line-by-Line to ensure that IT is configured correctly.   I would go so far as to START OVER with it's set up.   Start right from the beginning, and take note of any Do's/Do Not's that may be indicated in the Set Up Guide. 

Many forum users here use streaming devices, myself included, and when we've seen troubles here, they are almost always related to a mis-configuration of the streaming device itself.   Your diagnostics to date suggest that this is, or may be the source of your difficulties. 

No worries!  You'll get it sorted!

Best,

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2018-06-29
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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

I understand the sMS-200ultra neo provides one SuperHighendAudio USB port and two standard USB ports.

Which of these are you using, and did you try the other port(s)?

Also, as a more general remark you should keep an eye on the return period for your sMS-200ultra neo. Sometimes it is just not worth the hazzle, and there are alternatives around.

(If you just need USB to feed the RME a pi4 will do just fine for less 100 Euros. No pretty housing, though.)

21 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2022-03-31 18:12:00)

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Hi Joachim!

Who says the Pi-4 can't look sexy?  My Pi lives in a Flirc Cast Aluminum Heatsink Case that is the Picture of Engineering Excellence!   Sure!  I splashed out $15 for that, but we do what we must.  wink

Now perhaps you might explain to me what exactly is a "Super Hi End" USB Port?  big_smile

"Features" such as this are precisely the reason I chose the RPI as a No BS, future-resistant replacement for my Squeezebox devices.  RPI is in the business of flawless data-transfer. Nothing else.  BS not needed.

Just this morning, I updated the Sftwr on the Music Player loaded on my Pi.  Manoman that was easy!  It updated LOTS of stuff. Afterward,  Re-ran Bit-Test to test my work?  All OK.

All Bit Depths/Sample Rates Check A-OK.

So!

I think that at this time Frans is the focus.  Let's get him fixed, and move on shall we?

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

22 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-03-31 18:32:05)

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Curt962 wrote:

Hi Joachim!

Who says the Pi-4 can't look sexy?  My Pi lives in a Flirc Cast Aluminum Heatsink Case that is the Picture of Engineering Excellence!   Sure!  I splashed out $15 for that, but we do what we must.  wink

Now perhaps you might explain to me what exactly is a "Super Hi End" USB Port?  big_smile

"Features" such as this are precisely the reason I chose the RPI as a No BS, future-resistant replacement for my Squeezebox devices.  RPI is in the business of flawless data-transfer. Nothing else.  BS not needed.

Just this morning, I updated the Sftwr on the Music Player loaded on my Pi.  Manoman that was easy!  It updated LOTS of stuff. Afterward,  Re-ran Bit-Test to test my work?  All OK.

All Bit Depths/Sample Rates Check A-OK.

So!

I think that at this time Frans is the focus.  Let's get him fixed, and move on shall we?

Curt

Hello Curt,

The "Super Hi End" USB Port is the port throws out digital audio signal, the other two are sucking in from storage ....

https://i.ibb.co/M6FK21C/Screenshot-2022-04-01-at-01-28-15.png

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23 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2022-03-31 18:46:52)

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Hi Jo,

All USB ports are bidirectional.   To label one as "special" reeks of "Farm Smells" wink  BS anyone?

https://ibb.co/nL7L0g5

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

24 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-04-01 06:37:43)

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Curt962 wrote:

Hi Jo,

All USB ports are bidirectional.   To label one as "special" reeks of "Farm Smells" wink  BS anyone?


Yes, indeed.

I didn't dig deep .. could be the OS controls and limits it .... who knows ... it looks like a Pi in a case with brand name ...

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25 Reply by Curt962 (edited by Curt962 2022-03-31 20:11:15)

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Johannes AU wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

Hi Jo,
Uh
All USB ports are bidirectional.   To label one as "special" reeks of "Farm Smells" wink  BS anyone?


Yes, indeed.

I didn't dig deep .. could be the OS controls and limits it .... who knows ... it loos like a Pi in a case with brand name ...


Jo, et al. 

My Eldest Son is a Systems Developer with some of the most frightening names in the  business.  You cannot imagine what they're using the Pi 's power for    70+ PIs running in my Son's Lab, and OMG!

One Skipped Hearbeat?  You're screwed!  Pi will call the Ambulance.  Lucky for me, my Music Sftwr doesn't allow that.  wink

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

26 Reply by Johannes AU (edited by Johannes AU 2022-04-01 06:39:02)

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  • Registered: 2021-06-30
  • Posts: 720

Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Curt962 wrote:
Johannes AU wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

Hi Jo,
Uh
All USB ports are bidirectional.   To label one as "special" reeks of "Farm Smells" wink  BS anyone?


Yes, indeed.

I didn't dig deep .. could be the OS controls and limits it .... who knows ... it loos like a Pi in a case with brand name ...


Jo, et al. 

My Eldest Son is a Systems Developer with some of the most frightening names in the  business.  You cannot imagine what they're using the Pi 's power for    70+ PIs running in my Son's Lab, and OMG!

One Skipped Hearbeat?  You're screwed!  Pi will call the Ambulance.  Lucky for me, my Music Sftwr doesn't allow that.  wink


Your Pi and RME is running together Bit perfect, never miss a bit! smile

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Listen music out from a box which sounds
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  • Registered: 2022-03-28
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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Johannes AU wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

Hi Joachim!

Who says the Pi-4 can't look sexy?  My Pi lives in a Flirc Cast Aluminum Heatsink Case that is the Picture of Engineering Excellence!   Sure!  I splashed out $15 for that, but we do what we must.  wink

Now perhaps you might explain to me what exactly is a "Super Hi End" USB Port?  big_smile

"Features" such as this are precisely the reason I chose the RPI as a No BS, future-resistant replacement for my Squeezebox devices.  RPI is in the business of flawless data-transfer. Nothing else.  BS not needed.

Just this morning, I updated the Sftwr on the Music Player loaded on my Pi.  Manoman that was easy!  It updated LOTS of stuff. Afterward,  Re-ran Bit-Test to test my work?  All OK.

All Bit Depths/Sample Rates Check A-OK.

So!

I think that at this time Frans is the focus.  Let's get him fixed, and move on shall we?

Curt

Hello Curt,

The "Super Hi End" USB Port is the port throws out digital audio signal, the other two are sucking in from storage ....

https://i.ibb.co/M6FK21C/Screenshot-2022-04-01-at-01-28-15.png

Hello Curt, hello Johannes,

I use the audio usb port. So that's not the problem.
Tomorrow is the weekend and I have plenty of time to reinstall everything (as already suggested).

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Frans,

That sounds like a Good Plan.   Please review carefully your device set up parameters, as well as those in your Player Sftwr to ensure all is configured correctly for your device.   

I'm hoping your Streamer, and RME are making nice sounds very soon!

Best,

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2022-03-28
  • Posts: 11

Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Here is an update.

I rebuilt my entire installation from scratch. With only one item added every time.
But I still have distortion with a lot of music, especially in the high tones.

The only thing I can still try is replace the dac with an older one that I still have (project dac).

I will try that next Friday. I'm curious.

  • Registered: 2019-01-07
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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Frans,

Your RME works fine with other sources as you described earlier, thus the RME is innocent.   The SoTM on the other hand seems to have never worked. 

I think it best for you to contact SoTM to arrange for Repair/Replacement of that device.   Beyond the suggestions put forth so far, we here are really not in an ideal position to diagnose/repair other Mfr's products.

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes
  • Registered: 2022-03-28
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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Thank you Curt,

Of course it could be that the ADI just broke down in the same week just before I installed the SoTM.

And as I described, I also completely removed the SoTM, so I got the original situation.
With unfortunately still (not with all music by the way) distortion, especially in the highs.

And as mentioned before, I'm going to replace the dac on Friday to see if that makes any difference.

I'll keep you informed.

  • Registered: 2022-03-28
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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

Update.
I'm now in bed with a serious cold and flu, so I'm not going to try anything until I feel a bit better.

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Re: Distortion with RME adi-2 dac FS

fransdielissen wrote:

Update.
I'm now in bed with a serious cold and flu, so I'm not going to try anything until I feel a bit better.

Take good care of yourself first, have more rest and wishyou recover soon. smile

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen