• Registered: 2022-04-04
  • Posts: 9

Topic: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

Hi rme experts.
I'm new in ADI-2 world, just get a ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE. (Love AKchip, turn down dac version) 
Mostly use IEM and a headphone to listen music
in ADI-2 PRO is different dac version, PRO don't have IEM port, and no IEM setting
I been google and search a lot, can't find any information for PRO unit to config setting for IEM
Only know not to turn (Hi-power) and set to dac mode. and nos all other in defalt
but just don't sound right

is anyone can help
how to config setting for IEM (low noise, IEM and sensitive iem)

Thank you so much


Hope RME can release PRO firmware with IEM Profilo setting with it

2 Reply by ning (edited by ning 2022-04-04 18:01:46)

  • ning
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-08
  • Posts: 579

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

There's no IEM port for Pro. Hence no IEM setting.
Just use HP 3/4 for your IEM. Use low gain. That's all.

IEM port on the DAC has much lower voltage swing and lower noise.
regular HP port has higher noise than the IEM, IMHO partly because the feedback loop is back to one 1688 that's also driving the load, instead of the previous 1602. (I assume with a better design the HP amp can have much higher analog SNR, and thus can use even lower gain but still achieve full DAC DR).
But if you don't hear noise there's no issue for you at all. Just enjoy.

3 Reply by HiroshiHao (edited by HiroshiHao 2022-04-05 09:27:20)

  • Registered: 2022-04-04
  • Posts: 9

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

Thank you for the information

I will try iFi Audio iEMatch this type of product can fix the issue
which I find out might a way to fix IEM issue with headphone dac

Once I try, I will post here for the result

4 Reply by ning (edited by ning 2022-04-05 10:01:55)

  • ning
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-08
  • Posts: 579

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

HiroshiHao wrote:

Thank you for the information

I will try iFi Audio iEMatch this type of product can fix the issue
which I find out might a way to fix IEM issue with headphone dac

Once I try, I will post here for the result

it will only make matter worse. that is just a piece of junk. it just uses the resistors to get the voltage down. but you now have a wrong frequency response.

just insert the connector to HP out 3/4. Problem solved.

If you do hear noise from your IEM, you should get an ADI-2 DAC, seriously.

Its IEM out has 10db lower noise compared to HP out. because
HP out: Signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) @ +7 dBu: 118 dB RMS unweighted, 121 dBA
IEM out: Signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) @ -3 dBu: 118 dB RMS unweighted, 121 dBA

AKM/ESS difference may be inaudible. noise is, especially when you have an ultra sensitive driver.

5 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,599

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

ning wrote:
HiroshiHao wrote:

I will try iFi Audio iEMatch this type of product can fix the issue
which I find out might a way to fix IEM issue with headphone dac

Once I try, I will post here for the result

it will only make matter worse. that is just a piece of junk. it just uses the resistors to get the voltage down. but you now have a wrong frequency response.

The iFi Audio iEMatch works as advertized. Its output impedance is very low, and thus prevents audible changes in frequency response with IEMs. I am not a fan of that company, but we should stick to the facts here: Output Impedance: < 2.5 Ohms (High-Sensitivity) < 1 Ohms (Ultra-Sensitivity).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • ning
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-08
  • Posts: 579

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

Just googled how it works and you are right!

  • Registered: 2022-04-04
  • Posts: 9

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

Thank you all for the information update, and detail that you mention
I learn a lot from it
I will try on Phone3/4 first.. and will also try iEMatch (i already order it, its on the way to me..)
I hoping this will fix my IEM issue, and not to get an adi-2 dac version
in Taiwan RME dac version is ES chip, I prefer AK chip sound. This is why I choice Pro black edition at first.
Pro BE it work fine with most of IEM, but my final audio fi-ba-ss and campfire andromeda are to sensitive (they are best for my female vocal taste)

8 Reply by ning (edited by ning 2022-04-07 07:38:45)

  • ning
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-08
  • Posts: 579

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

If you encounter noise issue when using Phone 3/4 directly, iEMatch should reduce the noise for you, at the cost of putting the amp into heavier load. The unit will run warmer.
ADI-2 DAC is surely better for IEMs --- the port is there for a reason. AKM version and ESS version ADI-2 DAC has no sonic difference. RME stated that well both in the manual and official youtube channel.

quote from official manual, "ADI-2 DACs with AK4493 and ES9028Q2M are neither sonically nor visually easily distinguishable."

So if it's still possible, get the DAC version.

  • Registered: 2022-04-04
  • Posts: 9

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

Thank you, if these still niose issue. I will find a shop first with stack, and listen to the sound first.
at same time, start to save my money again for dac version. I already spend on Pro version and pre-order SONY NW-WM1ZM2. 
(I read the news that AKM will commit to ship dac and chip out this year 2022)
Hoping I can get some new model/version later on

10 Reply by ning (edited by ning 2022-04-09 07:40:39)

  • ning
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-08
  • Posts: 579

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

if you have issue using iEMatch with the Pro, you won't bet better result with the DAC unit.
ADI-2 DAC's IEM only has 10db lower noise, while iEMatch can lower it down by 24dB.

Also as I said earlier, most likely you won't hear noise with HP 3/4 in the first place.

Just stop worrying and enjoy the music.

  • Registered: 2022-04-04
  • Posts: 9

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

Thank you so much..
for detail feedback (IEMatch will arrival this week)
Once receive I will feedback at here

12 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-04-11 06:44:19)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,531

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

ning wrote:

if you have issue using iEMatch with the Pro, you won't bet better result with the DAC unit.
ADI-2 DAC's IEM only has 10db lower noise,...

10 dB lower noise can be a make or break difference.

Depends on your wallet what to do.

If you ask me where I’d spend:
The IEMatch seems to be the best investment, it even makes the mentioned IEM universal for use with a variety of sources.

KaiS's Website

13 Reply by HiroshiHao (edited by HiroshiHao 2022-04-11 15:12:15)

  • Registered: 2022-04-04
  • Posts: 9

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

Just arrival, finally I test IEMatch+ 3.5 & 4.4 Both unit (its have 2 filter High and Ultra)
its work!! play in -50 still loud and clear (in High mode)
with 6.3->IEMatch+->IEMs

14 Reply by ning (edited by ning 2022-04-11 17:46:55)

  • ning
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-08
  • Posts: 579

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

You are using high power mode of the headphone amplifier? You shouldn’t use high power mode. It has higher noise than low gain.


If you are talking about high mode in IEMatch. You should use Ultra, and ramp up the volume even more. -50db has two low dynamic range.

Also do you hear noise when plug IEM directly to 3/4 without IEMatch?
Does it hiss when nothing is playing.

  • Registered: 2022-04-04
  • Posts: 9

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

No, high mode in IEMatch

Phone3/4 High power = off, m/s p = on.. NOS filter , other setting in default
Phone1/2 mute
firmware is 122 (latest version)

I did hear hiss when  direct plug with IEM (phone3/4) hiss sound is very very small
after with IEMatch I don't hear anymore

16 Reply by ning (edited by ning 2022-04-12 06:28:01)

  • ning
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-08
  • Posts: 579

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

Got it. Thanks for the confirmation!
As mentioned in my previous post --- it is recommend that you use Ultra mode (-24db) instead of High(-12dB) mode on IEMatch, and turn up your volume by 12db (so it becomes -38dbu) on ADI-2.
You'll have 12dB higher dynamic range and higher SNR, at the cost of negligible higher power consumption.
You'll also have even lower output impedance (1 vs 2.5Ohm) thus more original frequency-response.
The output volume should be the same.

17 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-04-12 07:43:50)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,531

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

ning wrote:

... turn up your volume by 12db (so it becomes -38dbu) on ADI-2.
... at the cost of negligible higher power consumption.

-38 dBu (0.01 V) into 16 Ohms equals 0.6 mA current.

ADI-2 works with 15 V internal supply voltage.

15 V x 0.6 mA = 0.009 W power consumption.

Simply makes no difference at all, even below negligible (if that‘s possible smile ), as ADI-2‘s power consumption is temperature dependent changing within 1-2 Watts, according to my measurements.

KaiS's Website

  • ning
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-08
  • Posts: 579

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

> ADI-2 works with 15 V internal supply voltage.

I believe it’s 16V. Though the difference is small.

19 Reply by HiroshiHao (edited by HiroshiHao 2022-04-12 14:35:42)

  • Registered: 2022-04-04
  • Posts: 9

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

thank you, I will try to use in Ultra mode, and volume up

20 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-04-14 15:52:03)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,531

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

ning wrote:

> ADI-2 works with 15 V internal supply voltage.

I believe it’s 16V. Though the difference is small.

+/- 15 V

Look above the center screw.
This is the supply for the headphone amplifiers.

CORRECTION: it’s +/- 16 V indeed.
See postings below.

https://i.imgur.com/M4n2Tlm.jpg

KaiS's Website

21 Reply by ning (edited by ning 2022-04-12 14:26:09)

  • ning
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-08
  • Posts: 579

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

You looked at the wrong position. Simply use a multimeter and you'll find them not connected to the OPA1688s.
Look at the top and you see +16 V and -16 V rails. The OPA1688s and (two) OPA1602s  (right before the OPA1688s) are driven by +-16V rails.
The rest of the OPA1602s (input buffer before the ADC, DAC LPFs, differential inputs/outputs, summing buffer for TRS out, etc) are using +- 15V.


Another way to look at this:
from the manual: "For the Phones output, OVR appears from +1 dBFS, since the analog circuitry limits the headroom here"
the HP Amp is working at +22dBu level. So with the headroom it's +23dbu.
That's 30.94 Vpp. You also need to consider the voltage reduction by the PTC (the green piece which does the current limiting).
No way you can get it with a +/- 15V rail. Only possible with +/- 16V rail.

  • Registered: 2022-04-04
  • Posts: 9

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

update setting M/S-Proc off , changes USB driver to ASIO, with roon

Both Ultra/High are working fine!!

Thank you all

  • ning
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2019-06-08
  • Posts: 579

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

You're the most welcome. I think both KaiS and I learned something new!
For me it's how the dongle actually works --- Previously I had a wrong understanding how it divides voltage.
For KaiS maybe it's the first time to realize the Headphone amp works at +/- 16V smile
Very helpful discussion.

24 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-04-14 15:54:45)

  • KaiS
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2020-02-05
  • Posts: 3,531

Re: ADI-2 DAC PRO FS BE questions

ning wrote:

The OPA1688s and (two) OPA1602s  (right before the OPA1688s) are driven by +-16V rails.
The rest of the OPA1602s (input buffer before the ADC, DAC LPFs, differential inputs/outputs, summing buffer for TRS out, etc) are using +- 15V.

You’re right, I took the opportunity after doing firmware update to remeasure:

Nominal +/- 16 V is is the supply for the headphone’s amps OPA1688.
I measured +15.88 / -15.86 V on my well used unit.

Voltage drop (cold) across the green PTCs is ca. (+) 0.07 V and (-) 0.11 to 0.14 V.
This can be an indicator for the healthiness of the OPA1688s BTW.
If one is broken idle current and therefore voltage drop gets higher.

KaiS's Website