• apn
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Topic: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

Dear Forum Members,

I have a number of questions on the ADI-2 Pro (specifically the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition)
and I would very much appreciate if someone could help me out.
I should also add that I am a relative 'newbie' to the realm of digital audio so I'll apologize
in advance if my questions seem silly - it's just that I don't know any better (at this stage!). smile

I have a large FLAC collection (13000+ files) stored on a Synology DS213+ NAS.
Typically I play music via my PC (I work from home) using the HQPlayer software.
Yes -I like very much to upsample - I have a very powerful Windows 10 based PC so I can use the
more powerful upsampling filters that HQPlayer provides (it's very good by the way).
I am a headphone listener.

Currently I am playing my music through a PC audio card - a Rog Card :
https://www.asus.com/microsite/mb/ROG-s … #supremefx
At it's maximum it can accept 24 bit / 192 kHz upsampled music.

but I want to upgrade to a top notch DAC that can accept upsampled content via HQPlayer
at the highest level possible.

I have been reading about many DACs - but the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition with its
twin DACs and incredible implementation has really caught my eye.
I especially like the excellent protection facilities built into the ADI-2 which protect headphones from
being damaged / destroyed by power spikes (I have read about other very expensive units where
both the OpAmps and headphones have been cooked on power up.  That same unit also warns about taking out
headphones during playback - something which bothers me).

So given all this, my questions are :

1)  Can the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition play back in a balanced mode to a set
of good headphones?  I know that the ADI-2 can be run in balanced mode (from the settings) but
do I need to do anything special top with headphones?  For example, if I were to use a pair of
Audeze LCD-2's, would a connector with a double connection for the ADI-2 side front headphone jacks to
a single connector to the headphones work?  Can this balanced setting be used with any headphones as long as I have the connector?

2)  As stated earlier, I run a Windows 10 PC.
I read somewhere (and I'm likely confused) that if I connected the PC to the ADI-2 via USB
that because of the Windows drivers and limitations around those, I would be limited to :
- PCM @ 24 bit / 384 kHz
- DSD @ 256

Is this true?
I hope not since I would love to push the ADI-2 to it's limits with HQPlayer @ 24 bit / 768 kHz.
Any guidance on this would be great.

3)  Can the binaural crossfeeds be used in the Balanced mode?
I'm very keen to try these out since I have read that a strong implementation of this
technology (as in the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition) sounds very good.

4)  Which DAC chips does the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition use now?
Still the ESS chips or back to the AKA's (since I read somewhere the factory has been repaired).
I understand that it won't make a big difference since there is a heap of high tech RME components
in the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition but I'm just curious.  wink

5)  Any guidance on a great pdf book on audio engineering terms (for newbies) would be appreciated.
I'm quite keen to learn more and that's another plus for the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition.

That's about it for now.
Any help / guidance would be much appreciated and I'd like to thank everyone in advance
for reading through my post.

Finally, many thanks to RME for conceptualizing and building such an incredible piece of kit.
I came across it almost by chance - it wasn't being sold in the 'audiophile' stores  where
I live (Melbourne, Australia) but rather by sound engineering / Pro DJ stores.
Quite surprising to me given it's power (ie. running a FPGA like some of the most
expensive DACs available - if I remember correctly).

Cheers,

Adrian.

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-04-06 13:42:32)

  • ramses
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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

Many of your questions are covered by a few simple statements

  • upsampling of content doesn't increase it's quality

  • 384kHz is no limitation, many people can't hear a difference between 44.1 and 96 kHz or between lossless and mp3.

  • running the LCD-2 in balanced mode doesn't bring any better / audible quality or do you hear any noise?  If you hear no noise then you have no problems with noise and then you can save the money for expensive cables. Analog HiFi high end devices lie reel-to-reel or turntable have a much lower values.

  • I would need to read the manual whether crossfeed is supported in balanced mode, but as balanced operation is not required it doesn't matter anyway much.

> Which DAC chips does the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition use now?

A few month ago it was still the case, that only the ADI-2 DAC FS was changed to use the ESS chip.

>I understand that it won't make a big difference ...

It doesn't make any difference in terms of sound or quality.
The only little difference is that the ESS version has
- a brickwall D/A filter instead of SD LD (AKM only)
- no DSD Direct

Wondering for what do you think to need a book about audio engineering, the ADI-2 Pro is being used to listen to music ;-)
Music has not to be reproduced to use this device .. it supports you listening to and enjoying music.
Everything that you need to know about the device is covered in this very good detailed manual.

As a rule of thumb .. do not make things more complicated than required.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • ning
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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

> 1)  Can the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition play back in a balanced mode to a set
of good headphones?

Yes.

By the way, if single ended is loud enough for you (which should be 99% of the case), there's zero benefit to go balanced.
If you don't need to go balanced, probably ADI-2 DAC is a better choice. It's almost 40% cheaper, produces less heat, and also has an IEM amplifier.

>  I know that the ADI-2 can be run in balanced mode (from the settings) but
do I need to do anything special top with headphones?

You need a special cable which is described in the manual.
You can wire them yourself by following the manual.

> 2)  As stated earlier, I run a Windows 10 PC.
I read somewhere (and I'm likely confused) that if I connected the PC to the ADI-2 via USB
that because of the Windows drivers and limitations around those, I would be limited to :
- PCM @ 24 bit / 384 kHz
- DSD @ 256
Is this true?

You can install the RME ASIO driver and you can run it at 768/32 and dsd256.

> 3)  Can the binaural crossfeeds be used in the Balanced mode?

Yes.

> I'm very keen to try these out since I have read that a strong implementation of this
technology (as in the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition) sounds very good.

bs2b is available on many software programs and you can try it out.
I even have a program that performs same DSP pipeline as the ADI-2 and can give you a rough idea what this unit can do for you.

> 4)  Which DAC chips does the ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition use now?

AK4493

> 5)  Any guidance on a great pdf book on audio engineering terms (for newbies) would be appreciated.

Manual is a good start.  You'll learn a lot by reading the ADI-2 manual.

4 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-04-06 15:53:10)

  • KaiS
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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

Forgive me if I skip long explanations this time (most is in the manual anyway), just plain cookbook answers.


• Skip buying another audio card, nothing to gain.

SPDIF connection in general is limited to 192 kHz samplerate anyway.
Connect ADI-2 Pro via USB.
HQplayer supports ASIO, install the RME driver for highest samplerate (manual page 45).

Consider, samplerates above 192 kHz more or less limit ADI-2 Pro’s DSP functionality (manual page 16).
Probably the DSP offers more benefits than higher samplerates.


• For balanced headphones operation you need a cable or adapter wired according to manual page 44.
No unbalanced interconnect allowed (with an adapter), so no 1/4” or 1/8” TRS jack in between.

The AUDEZE LCD series can be used balanced.
Pro Audio stores can make a fitting cable for you.

Switch: SETUP / Options / Phones / Bal Phones Mode / ON - that’s all.


DSD Direct is not available for “Bal Phones Mode”.
The reason: DSD Direct is of no use with headphones, as it skips - nomen est omen - the volume control.

Normal DSD works, within it’s natural limitations (no DSP):
No Crossfeed, no EQ, no Loudness Function, etc., only Volume Control.

Configure HQplayer to output PCM to overcome this.
(Personal remark: DSD is a pain in the ass, but YMMV).


• All other functions do work in “Bal Phones Mode”, even Crossfeed.


• All RME ADI-2 Pro versions use AKM DAC chips.
Only some RME ADI-2 DAC versions use an ESS DAC chip.


• I can’t recommend a certain book about recording technology (maybe I should write one smile ).
Wikipedia is a reliable source for basic information on certain terms, opposed to the troll- and myth-crowded forums.
Read the manual (you do), do wiki any terms you don’t understand, then ask again here.

KaiS's Website

  • apn
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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

Hi Ramses, ning and KaiS,

Many thanks for your replies to my questions - I really appreciate your time.  smile

So many interesting points you all have brought up - I'll try to give an answer to some of them.

- In regards to upsampling - my personal experience has been that HQPlayer makes a real difference
to my ears and I find it an incredible piece of software.
To be honest in the beginning I was a little dubious - but after using it and working it out, it has changed
my listening experience entirely.

I know that it can't 'fix' bad recordings - but it certainly can clean them up and bring out
nuances in the sound that I wasn't able to hear in the original player I was using (a paid for one).
I don't want to get into comparing apples with grapefruit here since the software I was previously using
for playback is VERY GOOD at what it does (it's very much more generalistic) and is a lot cheaper than HQPlayer.
HQPlayer is a very specific DSP upsampler and if you have the hardware to run it, (for me) it's quite astounding.
I appreciate that there are many opinions about 'bit perfect' v's upsampling, but in the end I feel it's all about
personal preference.

- I'm now wondering - based on your comments - if there is a big difference between 1 or 2 DAC chips?
I always assumed that having one chip per channel would help produce a better result (assuming the
rest of the implementation is top notch).  This is why I was considering the Balanced output.
Do any of you feel that there is a noticeable difference between the 1 DAC or 2 DAC versions of the RME hardware?

- Thanks so much for pointing out that the manual described how to make the balanced cable - and also that
an audio store could do one up for me (that never occurred to me - doah!).
If I end up going Balanced that is what I would do - I'm hopeless with a soldering iron.  lol
It would be nice if RME actually supplied these but it's not a major thing.

- Thanks for the description of how the Balanced mode etc. works - that sounds great - and logical.

- Also, thanks for clearing up the ASIO Windows driver question.  HQPlayer can work with ASIO so this
isn't an issue for me.

- In regards to a book - I work as an IT Engineer so I'm not shy of manuals  / learning new tech.
I find this whole area totally fascinating - very interesting stuff.
This is also what attracts me to the RME gear - not only can I listen to great music through it but can
learn more about how audio can be processed.
Often I've found that finding the best learning source for a subject is by asking experts in the area -
and that's why I asked.  smile

- ning - you mentioned that you have software that does the DSP pipelining for Binaural.
Could you let me know what it is please - I might give it a go and see how it sounds.

Again thanks for your answers.

Ramses - I'll keep your advice in mind - don't make it too complicated!  Good advice.  wink
KaiS - thanks for your kind offer to answer more of my (likely) silly questions!

Cheers and all the best,

Adrian.

6 Reply by ning (edited by ning 2022-04-11 06:41:48)

  • ning
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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

> I'm now wondering - based on your comments - if there is a big difference between 1 or 2 DAC chips?

Zero audible difference. 2chips may reduce noise. but ADI-2's noise is far below audibility.

>  ning - you mentioned that you have software that does the DSP pipelining for Binaural.
Could you let me know what it is please - I might give it a go and see how it sounds.


RME ADI-2 series model after the bs2b library (http://bs2b.sourceforge.net/). various software programs, foobar2000, ffmpeg, and roon included, use that library.  Your player software (hqplayer) also has that feature. it should work in exactly the same way as ADI-2

I have a  script that simulate the ADI-2's DSP pipeline system-wide (https://github.com/Wang-Yue/CamillaDSP-Monitor) which of course provides an identical implementation of crossfeed. For those who don't have the ADI-2, it's a good demo for you to try out the feature set.

7 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-04-11 09:18:53)

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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

apn wrote:

...
- ning - you mentioned that you have software that does the DSP pipelining for Binaural.
Could you let me know what it is please - I might give it a go and see how it sounds.

I’ve tested al kinds of Binaural / 3-D solutions since the idea came up in the 1980s:

- Listening to STAX Headrelated Stereophonics and other’s recordings.
- Using AKG Hearo and Sennheiser Lucas systems.
- Even went further, developed a unique method to do my own binaural recordings (in parallel with conventional ones) in my work as audio engineer.

Neither results where convincing, to say it friendly.


Finally AUDEZE Mobius came out, making clear:
For Binaural, additional Headtracking is mandatory to deliver what one would expect:

A “be there” 3-Dimensional experience with headphones, out of head localization of sound, realistic ambience built up.

Headtracking uses a a positional sensor of head movements, to steer the 3-D emulating DSP processing.


Why is that:
In real life we use our outer ear’s natural direction-dependent filter function in conjunction with little head movements to localize a sound source.

Basicly all 3-D emulations work with the HRTF, the Head Related Transfer Function.
This is the ear’s angle dependent frequency response, a complex filter function.


So, a 3-D emulation needs to “trick” our brain to accept a close to the ear reproduced sound (the headphones) as being farther away.
Ignoring dynamic head movements, just do some static HRTF filtering, leaves you with conflicting perceptions:

The Binaural emulation’s static HRTF’s filter(s) and your dynamic head movements don’t fit together.

As a result HRTF without headtracking just sounds like a very, very strange coloration of sound.


To my knowledge currently there are 4 offerings of Binaural Processing WITH Headtracking, two of which are related.

• The AUDEZE Mobius headphones.
It’s a complete package of Planar Magnetic Headphones, with built in DSP processing, USB, analog and Bluetooth connectivity.
I have it and it’s great!

• Waves NX + Headtracker:
A soft-/hardware solution running on PC or Mac.
It’s the one that’s built into AUDEZE Mobius.
The hardware Headtracker can be mounted on every headphones.

• Smyth Realizer:
Expensive hardware solution.
A hardware processing unit with the option to connect a Headtracker that is mounted on your favorite headphones.

• Beyerdynamic HEADZONE Pro:
Same approach like Smyth Realizer.
Long out of production, and when I tried it, not very convincing.

KaiS's Website

  • ning
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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

3D emulation is not hard. Many good HRTFs are open source. just grab them and install a $5 gyroscope sensor on top of your headphone. Then with simple code you can experience it live. I bet it works better than the solutions you listed.

Good reference: https://github.com/google/spatial-media … tial-audio
Ready to use library: https://resonance-audio.github.io/resonance-audio/
This demo : https://rawgit.com/GoogleChrome/omniton … derer.html is particularly easy to modify so you can hook up your sensor's output into it.

Of course, HRTFs are not unique and it's better to design it according to your particular ear shape.
Various researches are going on to use Machine Learning to compute the HRTF based on an ear 3D model (can be shot via cell phones today).

9 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-04-12 18:40:33)

  • KaiS
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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

ning wrote:

3D emulation is not hard. Many good HRTFs are open source. just grab them and install a $5 gyroscope sensor on top of your headphone. Then with simple code you can experience it live. I bet it works better than the solutions you listed.

Interesting idea, but way out of my scope.
I’m audio engineer, not IT programmer.

The gyroscope would need to be 3-axis, the multi-angle-HRTF’s need to be blended through the different angles in realtime, at a high rate.

AUDEZE Mobius does all that, and is already fine-tuned sound-wise.
It mostly avoids the strange colorations other’s approaches suffer from.
Not a too easy task with the extreme filtering usual HRTF’s can present.

KaiS's Website

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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

Couple of questions regarding ADI-2 Pro´s balanced phones mode, which the manual won´t cover.


1. Which output´s settings are in affect in Balanced Phones Mode?

2. What Balanced Phones Mode -special indications the Dark Volume -display mode shows when in that mode? Picture would be nice...

11 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2023-01-29 20:12:17)

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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

MstrC-117 wrote:

1. Which output´s settings are in affect in Balanced Phones Mode?

Phones 3/4

MstrC-117 wrote:

2. What Balanced Phones Mode -special indications the Dark Volume -display mode shows when in that mode? Picture would be nice...

In the main screen lower left you see:
“1/2 bal”, and only 3/4 can be selected for volume control.

KaiS's Website

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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

Thanks!

13 Reply by pschelbert (edited by pschelbert 2023-01-29 22:20:09)

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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

Hello

what are you looking for:

-acoustics
-psychoacoustics
-analog electronics (filters, OpAmps etc.)
-Digital Signal processing
-ADC , DAC

Great source are AES articles (AES=Audio Engineering Society). some articles are public, free.
https://aes2.org/

Bob Katz has books on Mastering Audio (see for example amazon) .
https://www.amazon.de/s?k=bob+katz& … _sb_noss_1

Here you get all about DSP processing:
https://dspcookbook.github.io/

For ADC and DAC: look at akm , ess, TI, Analog devices

For acoustics, speakers headphones look: Floyd E. Toole (he has written many AES articles)
https://www.amazon.de/Sound-Reproductio … 0240520092
may be you find this book on the internet

  • From: Sweden
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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

KaiS wrote:

• Waves NX + Headtracker:
A soft-/hardware solution running on PC or Mac.
It’s the one that’s built into AUDEZE Mobius.
The hardware Headtracker can be mounted on every headphones.

So much brilliant reading here, I just wanted to add that there is head tracking with the camera too in NX, and I think it works very well:)

Babyface Pro FS, MSI GS66, Studio One

15 Reply by MstrC-117 (edited by MstrC-117 2023-03-06 19:24:12)

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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

In what use situation the status bar of ADI-2 Pro´s display shows "MO" for output? What does it mean?

Like in RME´s current web -front pages product picture slide show, where finger points in ADI-2 Pro FS R display, and on 3/4´s place in status bar reads this "MO".

https://www.rme-audio.de/home.html


The manual doesn´t mention anything about this.

16 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-03-06 19:30:11)

  • ramses
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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

Easter Sweepstakes, "who finds the MO ..."

Please take a screenshot, a hint in which display mode might be useful as well.

I didn't find anything on the pictures of product page (the link that you provided).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

Here is the picture

https://postimg.cc/3WcpS1Bk

18 Reply by MC

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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

LOL - ever heard of Mono? I mean HEARD?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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19 Reply by MstrC-117 (edited by MstrC-117 2023-03-06 22:11:09)

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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

MC wrote:

LOL - ever heard of Mono? I mean HEARD?

Ok, so that is the indication of Output being on Mono. Roger that.

Would it be counter-confusive to mention this in the manual also... ?



Why to choose this kind of undocumented and overall weird situation in the product promo -picture first place?

The finger person in picture must also had been very confused... "What SMUX-DSD-SRC-special-loopback-inva -mode I´m now??"

20 Reply by MC

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Re: Some questions on the ADI-2 Pro

Good hint - I thought it is in all manuals but seems not. I mentioned it at the time we added it, in the firmware readme: 6/07/2019 ADI-2 Pro updated to 193/93, ADI-2 DAC updated to 26/28. Common changes: Active Mono mode is now shown in the lower status bar.

I'll add it to the next manual(s).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website